Feel guilty chopping up 50 year old model loco!

[E3109]

I acquired a 'spares or repair' Triang EM2 recently in a rather parlous state, and even worse it came with a class 31 power bogie which is something I always look out for. This time it slipped my radar, but no worries really as it wasn't expensive.

 

The loco body itself was in a decent condition, but nonetheless I wanted it for a cameo scene on my layout. I had the Dremel to it this afternoon to cut out the boiler panel and other mods, but I still feel sort of bad for taking the hatchet to what is after all a collectable model.

 

Am I alone in feeling this way?

The loco as it will be modified will be an absolute boon to my layout, but I still can't help feeling a bit guilty at 'defiling' an otherwise collectable item.

 

How do you guys feel about committing such 'sacrilege'?

[96701]

It is yours. Do with it as you want. These are so 'collectable' as to readily available.

[Steamport Southport]

It depends on what it is and what condition.

 

Good quality collectable rarities or things that have sentimental value, then I wouldn't touch them. Especially if they were mint.

 

Anything else is fair game.

 

 

 

Jason 

[E3109]

I do have an absolutely mint Triang EM2 Jason and I'd never touch it re mods, it's a lovely model and deserves to stay in its current condition, apart from wheelsets which can easily be backdated if req.

 

Sometimes I feel that modding ancient locos incurs the wrath of the collector fraternity, I do get that though.

[russ p]

What's the crack with the 31 bogie? I've been told that they were fitted by owners but I have a mate who's dad bought him one new as a kid and that has one. He's not an enthusiast and has never had any other locos so I assume it came from the factory like it

[E3109]

What's the crack with the 31 bogie? I've been told that they were fitted by owners but I have a mate who's dad bought him one new as a kid and that has one. He's not an enthusiast and has never had any other locos so I assume it came from the factory like it

Not too sure Russ, various stuff on the net suggests that Ped bogies were 'legitimately' fitted to EM2 models from time to time, back in the day.

I don't buy it, but it may be true.

 

In any case, if EM2s are your thing then ensure you check this out when bidding on a Triang EM2.

[E3109]

Loco in question, bit of a basket case really but fair game for a TMD scene.

Note the missing boiler panel.

Edited January 2, 2019 by E3109

[The Johnster]

I suspect that the majority of 50 year old RTR (and the EM2 dates from earlier than that) is beyond making into a model acceptable by modern standards however much you work it up, even a non running shed lurker.  Some, and the EM2 is definitely in this category, are reasonably close to scale size, but moulded detail, overthick body sides, no cab detail, and cast solid bogie outside frames including the centre wheelset all mitigate against it even before you start to consider couplings and wheel profiles, and finishes were very rough by current standards; look at the single orange lining on the green liveried EM2.  Pantographs on overhead electrics and motion on steam locos were crude stampings, and Triang/Triang Hornby egged the unacceptability pudding by making everything 2mm too high off the railhead.  

 

It is probably easier to scratch or kit build in the case of EM2s if you want an acceptable model that runs well.  IIRC the EM2 had the same mechanism as the Brush Type 2 (as we called them back in the day) and you could get it to run quite slowly, but the bogie was mounted to the bodyshell at the roof, so the loco rode in a very odd and unprototypical fashion, as if it was being swung from above rather than rocking on the bogies.  It looked, and was, a bit toy-like.

 

But guilt at chopping a collectable model would not bother me.  If I thought that the loco could be made into something passable, then out would come the razor saw and drill.  To prove it, I have a Hornby 2721, fairly recent with a chassis with all wheels flanged and the same size, which I have worked up with replacement chimney, dome, and safety valve cover, decent buffers, spectacle glazing, and a repaint into 1942 Austerity black livery.  She's due for a bit more work on the cab roof and brass number plates for 2761, despite the unsolvable problems of wheel and splasher spacing and the plastic skirt beneath the boiler.  To be fair, this is probably not as much of a collector's piece as an EM2...

Edited January 2, 2019 by The Johnster

[Jeff Smith]

I think the same sense of guilt could apply in acquiring 30 or 40 year old kits and building them, as I have done recently......

[great central]

Many years ago now I picked up an EM2 body at a swap meet, several years later I found an underframe.

The two were mounted on Lima 37 bogies with cast resin side frames.

Flush glazed and with separate handrails and other work it don't look half bad in my opinion.

There's a photo of it somewhere on here from years ago but darned if I can find it using search on my mobile

[Red Devil]

Many years ago now I picked up an EM2 body at a swap meet, several years later I found an underframe.

The two were mounted on Lima 37 bogies with cast resin side frames.

Flush glazed and with separate handrails and other work it don't look half bad in my opinion.

There's a photo of it somewhere on here from years ago but darned if I can find it using search on my mobile

This one? I think the old Triang one captures the looks of the EM2 far better than the more recent Heljan one, I'd avoided those till recently but picked up a cheapish one, still toying with the idea of a detailed Triang body on the Heljan chassis, or even Triang cabs grafted into the Heljan one, dunno yet time will tell!

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100995-em2-class-77-bogie-frames/?p=1949831

[Dunsignalling]

I acquired a 'spares or repair' Triang EM2 recently in a rather parlous state, and even worse it came with a class 31 power bogie which is something I always look out for. This time it slipped my radar, but no worries really as it wasn't expensive.

 

The loco body itself was in a decent condition, but nonetheless I wanted it for a cameo scene on my layout. I had the Dremel to it this afternoon to cut out the boiler panel and other mods, but I still feel sort of bad for taking the hatchet to what is after all a collectable model.

 

Am I alone in feeling this way?

The loco as it will be modified will be an absolute boon to my layout, but I still can't help feeling a bit guilty at 'defiling' an otherwise collectable item.

 

How do you guys feel about committing such 'sacrilege'?

Half a model isn't "collectible" in any real sense of the word. An original box would be much more sought after by collectors/dealers.

 

At worst, you've "defiled" (or perhaps more accurately "filed"  ) a body that might have been useful in a "making a good one up out of two" exercise.

 

John

[forest2807]

I had no such qualms about butchering an EM2 body to shoehorn in a centrally mounted Bachmann motor and a pair of LMS 10000 diesel bogies. I didn’t complete it though and sold the constituent parts as spares.

[Il Grifone]

The motor bogies are the same apart from the frame casting. Only the Tri-ang EM2 got the preferential treatment of her own bogie casting. Later diesels had to make do with the Brush casting.

 

As regards 'sacrilege'. It's your model and you can do what you like with it. Collectors should be happy as one less makes theirs that little bit rarer and more valuable. Remember that a poor example is only 'worth' about 10% of a 'mint' example. The box can be 'worth' as much as the model itself, which is just ridiculous IMHO.

[Titan]

I always thought it was a shame that Triang did not use the EM2 bogie on the 37. OK Still not correct, but it would have looked better than the 31 bogie.

[Colin]

The shop I work in has a couple of EM2s for sale, haven’t looked that closely but they appear to be in good order considering their age. We do mail order - if anyone is interested please drop me a PM.

[HonestTom]

I'd feel guilty about chopping up a mint example, but if it's beaten up or missing parts then it's probably not worth much to a serious collector anyway. Triang is pretty common on the second-hand market, so it's not like you'd be destroying someone's once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to complete their collection.

[Forester]

I acquired a 'spares or repair' Triang EM2 recently in a rather parlous state, and even worse it came with a class 31 power bogie which is something I always look out for. This time it slipped my radar, but no worries really as it wasn't expensive.

 

The loco body itself was in a decent condition, but nonetheless I wanted it for a cameo scene on my layout. I had the Dremel to it this afternoon to cut out the boiler panel and other mods, but I still feel sort of bad for taking the hatchet to what is after all a collectable model.

 

Am I alone in feeling this way?

The loco as it will be modified will be an absolute boon to my layout, but I still can't help feeling a bit guilty at 'defiling' an otherwise collectable item.

 

How do you guys feel about committing such 'sacrilege'?

 

Guilt or not, it doesn't make economic sense

 

- when there are plenty of cheap wrecks on ebay to cut up, and plenty of buyers with deep pockets for items in collectable condition..

[DCB]

Its a shame to cut up a good EM2 body for a shed / TMD scene, mainly because I think they were only maintained at one depot and withdrawn and exported to the continent about 1975, so there were none scrapped in the UK.   As for cutting up a tatty damaged one that's different, or indeed stamping on a Princess Victoria or warped distorted Jinty body before binning it.

I habitually cut up, drill, bodge and generally abuse 1960's chassis in order to keep 21st century Bachmann. Hornby etc bodies mobile after their chassis have died.

[E3109]

Its a shame to cut up a good EM2 body for a shed / TMD scene, mainly because I think they were only maintained at one depot and withdrawn and exported to the continent about 1975, so there were none scrapped in the UK.   As for cutting up a tatty damaged one that's different, or indeed stamping on a Princess Victoria or warped distorted Jinty body before binning it.

I habitually cut up, drill, bodge and generally abuse 1960's chassis in order to keep 21st century Bachmann. Hornby etc bodies mobile after their chassis have died.

I'm modelling that very shed, that's why I wanted one in a semi-dismantled state. They were stored at Bury in 1968, but a couple were brought out of store to demonstrate their capabilities to NS in 1969 and were sold that year.

From what I can tell, these locos were E27002 and E27004, both sans nameplates. Thus, I can just about get away with multi-fitted EM1s rubbing shoulders with 2 and 4, whereas the one I've taken the Dremel to will need to be restricted to pre-1968 scenes.

[tomparryharry]

I've acquired a lot of 16t mineral wagons, still in their Airfix boxes. Am I guilty about working up the kits?

 

Not a bit...

 

Ian.

[Steamport Southport]

I've acquired a lot of 16t mineral wagons, still in their Airfix boxes. Am I guilty about working up the kits?

 

Not a bit...

 

Ian.

 

Again it's down to rarity. Plenty of wagon kits about.

 

But if I came across some Airfix kits still unbuilt then I wouldn't touch them as they are worth a lot of money to collectors. Some of the tooling went the same way as the missing Kitmaster tools and was scrapped. Whilst others have never been reissued for fifty or sixty years.

 

Some are also valuable due to the box and packaging.

 

 

Jason

[Il Grifone]

Again it's down to rarity. Plenty of wagon kits about.

 

But if I came across some Airfix kits still unbuilt then I wouldn't touch them as they are worth a lot of money to collectors. Some of the tooling went the same way as the missing Kitmaster tools and was scrapped. Whilst others have never been reissued for fifty or sixty years.

 

Some are also valuable due to the box and packaging.

 

 

Jason

 

There's a whole pecking order on the desirability of Airfix kit packaging. Apparently the presence or otherwise of a red stripe on the box can considerably affect the value. Don't ask more, as really I don't care. Apparently a Kitmaster kit is 'worth' most if still in its cellophane wrapping (like vinyl records). I didn't even realise either came in cellophane wrappings! Also all the parts should still be on the sprue. I can remember that they were often detached even with a brand new kit. I recall writing several times for missing Kitmaster parts. They were always very prompt with the replacement.

[Ben Alder]

The Airfix wagon kits are still good models and scrub up well. Buying the older ones gives you a crisper plastic than the sorry apologies currently available from Dapol, and certainly the seventies releases can be obtained for reasonable sums with a bit of patience - there appear to be plenty around.