FLYING SCOTSMAN IN B R BLUE

[DonnyRailMan]

It dose seem straing seeing the new Hornby blue Flying Scotsman without a corridoor tender.

[adb968008]

Scotsman never had a corridor tender in BR days.

 

in the 1930’s yes.

in 1963 for two test runs yes, but under Alan Peglers ownership.

thereafter in private ownership.

 

but in BR service days no.

 

The odd thing is Mallard used to have a corridor tender in BR and LNER days, but does not today... 

 

Its reputed that 4472 has parts of 4468’s original 1938 tender on it.

 

So you’d think that was an easy fix for the NRM ?

Edited March 6, 2019 by adb968008

[andyram]

It is a beautiful looking model and has proved to be very popular in my shop. I still have a couple left however.

[G-BOAF]

On 06/03/2019 at 16:58, adb968008 said:

Its reputed that 4472 has parts of 4468’s original 1938 tender on it.

 

 

I've never heard this before. It is well known that 4468's original tender was purchase as a water carrier for 4498 but the conversion enver happened, and the tender was scrapped in the 1970s I think. Its is possible that some spares were reovered and found their way to other locos, although I would have thought Gresley would have had these. Can you provide further details?

 

What is noted is that, according to the Gresley website, 4498's current tender was attached to 4472 during its historic 100mph run.

Based on data here:

http://www.sirnigelgresley.org.uk/chime-archive/tenders/tenders1.shtml

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by G-BOAF

[woodenhead]

On 06/03/2019 at 16:58, adb968008 said:

 

Its reputed that 4472 has parts of 4468’s original 1938 tender on it.

 

So you’d think that was an easy fix for the NRM ?

How nice that the NRM replica Scotsman has some actual LNER parts 

[asmay2002]

On 06/03/2019 at 16:58, adb968008 said:

The odd thing is Mallard used to have a corridor tender in BR and LNER days, but does not today... 

The last 14 A4s (including Mallard) had non corridor tenders when built.  Mallard is restored to the condition she was in when she broke the record - hence the non corridor tender.

[thefin]

There is a mountain of literature available capturing A3/A4 tenders & their pairings to locomotives, which i am sure can be located and perused at leisure by those in the forum who are so inclined so as to determine which tender was paired to 60103 when the locomotive ran in early BR blue.

 

As an aside, and a few years back, Hornby produced for Marks & Spencer a Premier Boxed Set 'Flying Scotsman' containing a very nice BR blue version of 60103 'Flying Scotsman' and a trio of Gresley coaches. 

 

The tender was a streamlined non-corridor version, and this configuration would appear to be the same as the current R3627 offering.  I note the M&S tender has a tender number on the cab facing bulkhead which may (or may not)  mirror the actual early 1950's pairing to 60103, however, it would appear that the original tender wheels were the disc variety (certainly the earlier model was produced in this way as per the attached image), whereas Hornby's current rendering shows spoked wheels .... 

[Steamport Southport]

60103 had Streamlined Non Corridor tender no 5640 from July 1938 until withdrawal. Which then went to A4s Lord Faringdon and Kingfisher. I have read that the buyer of Bittern originally wanted Kingfisher, but it was in poor condition.

 

Scrapped with the loco I believe. Here it is at Hughes Bolckows scrapyard.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36891793@N08/16225906537

 

http://brdatabase.info/components.php?comp=tender&id=3790

 

I don't think any A1 or A3 had a corridor tender post war apart from the preserved example. They all had LNER non corridor or the GNR type.

 

 

 

Jason

[robmcg]

Has anyone noticed that the ashpan lever on this new blue A3 is on the wrong side, again?

 

I wouldn't mind if it was easy to fix, super glue and all that, but I have never found it easy.

[DonnyRailMan]

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 16:58, adb968008 said:

Scotsman never had a corridor tender in BR days.

 

in the 1930’s yes.

in 1963 for two test runs yes, but under Alan Peglers ownership.

thereafter in private ownership.

 

but in BR service days no.

 

The odd thing is Mallard used to have a corridor tender in BR and LNER days, but does not today... 

 

Its reputed that 4472 has parts of 4468’s original 1938 tender on it.

 

So you’d think that was an easy fix for the NRM ?

 

Just noticed only the single chimney as well.

[G-BOAF]

On 06/03/2019 at 16:58, adb968008 said:

 

The odd thing is Mallard used to have a corridor tender in BR and LNER days, but does not today... 

 

 

 

Mallard did NOT have a corridor tender in LNER days. She first gained that type in March 1948. I presume the (incorrect) Hornby LNER Mallard produced in the 1980s and early 1990s were done so because Hornby did not have the tooling for a non-corridor tender.

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600104028&loco=4468

 

What the NRM could technically do would be to swap tenders between Mallard and Scotsman and allow both to be historically correct in BR livery. They won't, and for good reason!

[davidw]

On 11/03/2019 at 19:27, DonnyRailMan said:

 

Just noticed only the single chimney as well.

Double chimneys were fitted 1958/9

[DonnyRailMan]

10 hours ago, davidw said:

Double chimneys were fitted 1958/9

 

Cheers , i was thinking they where fitted before that 1950,55ish.

[Tiddles47]

Flying Scotsman in blue was shedded at Leicester (from June 1950) for Great Central expresses and ran like this from Dec.1949 (when still allocated to Doncaster Carr shed) till Feb 52 when she went to Doncaster Works for a general repair and reappeared in BR Green on the 14th March 1952. It wasn't till 1954 that she was converted to left hand drive and by that time allocated to Grantham.  She gained her double blastpipe and chimney during a general repair 10/12/58 - 24/01/59. Hope this helps.

[DonnyRailMan]

1 hour ago, Tiddles47 said:

Flying Scotsman in blue was shedded at Leicester (from June 1950) for Great Central expresses and ran like this from Dec.1949 (when still allocated to Doncaster Carr shed) till Feb 52 when she went to Doncaster Works for a general repair and reappeared in BR Green on the 14th March 1952. It wasn't till 1954 that she was converted to left hand drive and by that time allocated to Grantham.  She gained her double blastpipe and chimney during a general repair 10/12/58 - 24/01/59. Hope this helps.

 

Thank you for information.

[No Decorum]

It is curious the assumptions one can make without thinking much about a subject. I assumed (without thinking) that when the A4s were given double Kylchap exhausts, they replaced single Kylchap exhausts. It took me by surprise to read that the single chimneys were plain, although a little thought would have made that a sensible conclusion. Only two V2s were given double Kylchap  exhausts; if I recall correctly, four were given plain double chimneys. The two Kylchap specimens performed better than the plain double-chimneyed versions.

[DonnyRailMan]

On 14/03/2019 at 07:57, No Decorum said:

It is curious the assumptions one can make without thinking much about a subject. I assumed (without thinking) that when the A4s were given double Kylchap exhausts, they replaced single Kylchap exhausts. It took me by surprise to read that the single chimneys were plain, although a little thought would have made that a sensible conclusion. Only two V2s were given double Kylchap  exhausts; if I recall correctly, four were given plain double chimneys. The two Kylchap specimens performed better than the plain double-chimneyed versions.

 

Some good technical information there.

[DonnyRailMan]

Just had to be done

[G-BOAF]

3 hours ago, DonnyRailMan said:

Just had to be done

What are conditions like for Skiing?

Or has this been sorted? Any chance of a side on view of the front end, or a front three-quarters shot?

[DonnyRailMan]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

What are conditions like for Skiing?

Or has this been sorted? Any chance of a side on view of the front end, or a front three-quarters shot?

 

 

Just took this with phone for a quick photo then put back in box. Not even thought about any of what you asked about.

Edited April 1, 2019 by DonnyRailMan

[DonnyRailMan]

It still seems strainge without corridoor Tender.

[Willie Whizz]

So then, chaps, have we come to a conclusion about this model?  Is it, in fact, a decent representation of Flying Scotsman as she appeared in the early 1950s, while in BR Blue and shedded at Leicester Central and before repainting and conversion to left-hand drive?

 

And are the models people have seen affected by the recent ski-jump problem of other A3s?

 

Your observations would be appreciated.

[Willie Whizz]

Well, in the absence of any replies to my questions, I decided to take a chance and ordered the last one Kernow had in stock.

 

Examination suggests it isn't that great.  The "ski-jump" footplate problem is certainly present and visible; also there is a fairly deep gouge along much of the central top of the boiler.  The detail and paint finish are otherwise reasonable.

 

It appears from published stock levels on several websites that this variant of the model hasn't been produced in large numbers, so getting another - let alone a better one - might be a challenge if I returned it. I hummed- and harred- for quite a while before deciding, with some reluctance, to keep it as it does fill a useful gap in my roster that I wouldn't find it easy to do otherwise.

 

But  I have to say that, while I can't blame Kernow, I think it's pretty poor that Hornby are still palming us off with a effectively sub-standard product for what is meant to be one of their 'flagship' models, whose headline price is gradually nudging ever-closer to the £200-mark, when these faults have been known and widely commented on for at least a couple of years now.  If the current moulding can't be fixed it is high time there was a new one, and the "new regime" need to face-up to that.

[PJT]

Actually, the 'ski jump' is very, very easily fixable.  It's not a tooling problem, it's an assembly problem, brought about by a small transparent plastic spacing washer between the chassis and the underside of the footplate that serves no purpose other than forcing the front of the footplate up into the 'ski jump' shape when the front body to chassis screw is tightened.  It takes no more than 30 seconds to fix: remove the front body to chassis screw, gently prise the front of the body away from the chassis by a millimetre or so, shake out the errant spacing washer and then replace the screw.  As you tighten the screw, the footplate returns to its intended, straight, alignment.  I've now carried out this fix on over a dozen late-model Hornby A3s and A1s (mainly Book Laws and Minorus) and it's worked perfectly on every one.  On the first couple, before I was confident of the fix, I removed the body completely from the chassis but then realised it was unnecessary to go so far and on all the rest I've just removed the front screw to release and remove the washer.  It honestly is that simple.

 

Earlier (Sanda Kan assembled?) Hornby super detailed A3s like Windsor Lad, Ladas, St Gatien, etc. in my experience never had that washer fitted to them anyway.

 

Sorting out the 'gouge' along the top of the boiler is however definitely a tooling issue, being caused by slight misalignment of sides of the moulding tool or poor bedding in or looseness of one of the alternative (different detail) slides in the tool.  Either way, Hornby and their Chinese contractor could fix that problem if they wanted to, at a cost of only a fraction of doing a very expensive and frankly unnecessary complete retool.  Looking at the moulding details on late-model Hornby A3s, the tooling certainly isn't worn out, nor anywhere close to it.  I've been lucky in that none of my later-produced A3s have displayed this 'gouge', but I've certainly seen it on others.  That's why I'd suspect a slightly loose slide in the tool: as the slide's position moves fractionally, sometimes it produces a good moulding, other times it doesn't.

 

As far as the 'ski jump' is concerned, though, it's genuinely a really easy fix (and before anyone asks, I think I ought to send a copy of this post to Hornby, just in case they're unaware).

 

Pete T.

 

[Willie Whizz]

Many thanks, Pete - I'll give that a try.

 

Since the issue has been so very widely commented-on in the media and on the Web, though, one would have thought Hornby would have been well aware by now and come-up with an answer themselves.

 

So if you do get in touch with them - and get a response - do please let us all know what they have to say!