grahame Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, 47475 said: I noticed the following item in the catalogue, but it is not shown online yet: 377-878 BR 25T Queen Mary Brake Van in Departmental Olive Green I'll certainly be picking that one up if/when it is released. If you are a member of the NGS you could probably pick one up now (in BR engineers olive) for under £20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47475 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, grahame said: If you are a member of the NGS you could probably pick one up now (in BR engineers olive) for under £20. Unfortunately I am not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Class 70's are showing as in stock at Osborns today. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977joey Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) Just looking at the Bachmann website, it looks like the availability has been updated & see that the Mark 2fs are now pushed back to October, which to be fair I’m not surprised at with the current climate we’re in right now, though still frustrated at the fact (pre Covid 19) we should have had them in the shops December gone having being pushed back from September!... Still no ETA on the provincial 150/1’s which I’m also eagerly waiting for... Stay safe Peeps, Mark Edited April 12, 2020 by 1977joey 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) One thing that I find odd is that new models that are simply reissues of old models (but in a different livery) take so long to appear. Class 31s, 37s, 47s are all staples for most traction fans, yet it take years for new variants to come out. There is almost nothing in BR blue available right now, let alone other common liveries such as Intercity (old and Swallow), Dutch, RES, large logo, RR etc. Even the supply of basic Mk1 and Mk2 TSO coaches has dried up. Similarly, there are no modern staples such as the 158 or 170. The modern range is now so small it is almost impossible to plan a balanced layout for any time post 1970. These supply problems existed long before the current health crisis. I don't know how Bachmann/Farish expect the N gauge market to grow if the supply is so limited. Maybe they assume that the British N market is now so small that they are better to limit supply to the remaining buyers so to push up the price on the few products that do come out. Maybe that's why we are now paying £40 for an N gauge coach...? Dapol aren't much better. There is still no sign of a revised NSE 50, a Dutch 50, a railfreight 50, let alone the more recent liveries - and 50s are probably the most popular loco of the last 30 years. Fortunately I've been into modern N gauge since the 1990s so have built a reasonable range of stock these days. I've tried to upgrade some older stock to more recent standards and some of it looks passable. But for someone thinking about starting out in modern or contemporary N gauge today, why would you even try? Edited April 20, 2020 by fezza 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruff Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 To be fair to Dapol regarding the Class 50, The Dutch one is available from DCC Suplies. Also they have not long released the first batch and have already said they are doing a second run which should include revised Network Southeast. It was originally planned for later this year before circumstances overtook them. Dapol have said that three tone Railfreight is not a good seller for them. As for Farish, I can't believe they have not released a BR Blue 47 with headlight.. Roll on the Mk2's though! Cheers Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted April 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2020 Things aren't much better if you model steam era (pre or post nationalisation). Dapol are at least re-running some existing models (and without massive price hikes - the HST power+dummy twin-sets are very well priced compared to many Farish re-runs). Bachmann/Farish appear to have put N Gauge on the back-burner, presumably to make room for the extended Thomas ranges. Steven B. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) It just seems odd from a business point of view. Having spent hundreds of thousands on design and tooling, surely the company bosses would want to see new liveries and numbers come out to get more returns on the investment? At least that's what you would expect with popular models that are bound to sell (31, 37, 47, Mk1s etc) . You don't want to flood the market (see Lima in the 1990s...), but I don't see the logic in spending lots of money in fixed cost development and then practically halting production? Surely they have enough capacity to produce the relatively small amount of N gauge that the British market demands? Meanwhile, my modest amount of railway disposable income is going to Dapol... Edited April 21, 2020 by fezza Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Reminds me of when Bachmann first purchased Farish; no new models for ages, vague promises of new stock but no concrete deadline, and the prices of even poor second-hand stuff like Lima went through the roof because it's all you could get in the scale. I get the current virus issues, but looking in my local model shops the range seems to have been dwindling for a while... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted April 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2020 One comparison directly between the Bachmann Empire's OO and N scale ranges is the Class 37, a very common or garden locomotive pretty much everywhere for the thick end of sixty years. In OO produced by the container ship load in numerous guises for retailer limited editions, Rep's specials, etc, etc. In N, a few standard colours (mostly sold out almost instantly) and very little else with those turning up on the second hand market going for silly money, even ones that have mechanical issues. The same comparison can be had for the Collectors Club, the OO members get locos, the N members are lucky if they see a wagon once a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I suspect Bachmann Europe are constrained by availability of production slots for their entire UK range so it is probably largely irrelevant whether tooling already exists or is for a brand new model. Production runs of maybe 3k or 4k units is small beer compared to some other markets like the US, so sadly I suspect UK products, especially N just have to wait their turn, and if a slot is lost that could well mean a long wait for another. We were told by David Haarhaus shortly after he became Bachmann Europe MD that there was more production capacity coming on stream and things would come through quicker, but sadly that never seems to have happened. I don't doubt Bachmann are still committed to British N but does feel to me like they are still very much constrained by a continued lack of capacity at the factories in China, and let's face it they do not call the shots. Now with both the impact of Covid 19 and imperative of getting the Thomas ranges launched for Christmas I don't see anything changing anytime soon personally, I am just hoping to see the Thompson coaches soon and the 8F in time for my birthday, with everything else that is going on that would make me happy enough. Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Ben B said: Reminds me of when Bachmann first purchased Farish; no new models for ages, vague promises of new stock but no concrete deadline, and the prices of even poor second-hand stuff like Lima went through the roof because it's all you could get in the scale. I get the current virus issues, but looking in my local model shops the range seems to have been dwindling for a while... Yeah, I think that their Class 60 took about six years to get to market, but Dapol entering the market gave them a boot up the backside and Bachmann got their act together, for a while at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Kaput Posted April 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2020 It is quite sad just browsing the Farish pages on a site like Rails of Sheffield, the amount of stuff that is preorder outnumbers the actual in stock items by an insane amount. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Kaput said: It is quite sad just browsing the Farish pages on a site like Rails of Sheffield, the amount of stuff that is preorder outnumbers the actual in stock items by an insane amount. You could argue the reverse, that not having a lot of stock going unsold means there is demand for more models so encouraging more from Bachmann Farish - hence the large number of items available to pre-order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977joey Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 On 20/04/2020 at 15:45, fezza said: One thing that I find odd is that new models that are simply reissues of old models (but in a different livery) take so long to appear. Class 31s, 37s, 47s are all staples for most traction fans, yet it take years for new variants to come out. There is almost nothing in BR blue available right now, let alone other common liveries such as Intercity (old and Swallow), Dutch, RES, large logo, RR etc. Even the supply of basic Mk1 and Mk2 TSO coaches has dried up. Similarly, there are no modern staples such as the 158 or 170. The modern range is now so small it is almost impossible to plan a balanced layout for any time post 1970. These supply problems existed long before the current health crisis. I don't know how Bachmann/Farish expect the N gauge market to grow if the supply is so limited. Maybe they assume that the British N market is now so small that they are better to limit supply to the remaining buyers so to push up the price on the few products that do come out. Maybe that's why we are now paying £40 for an N gauge coach...? Dapol aren't much better. There is still no sign of a revised NSE 50, a Dutch 50, a railfreight 50, let alone the more recent liveries - and 50s are probably the most popular loco of the last 30 years. Fortunately I've been into modern N gauge since the 1990s so have built a reasonable range of stock these days. I've tried to upgrade some older stock to more recent standards and some of it looks passable. But for someone thinking about starting out in modern or contemporary N gauge today, why would you even try? I know such as the provincial Class 150/1’s that were announced 2 years ago & still no ETA on those, these are simply a re issue in a different livery. I agree with you though Fezza, it must be off putting starting from scratch with the limited availability of N Gauge models right now, which if there was the availability of the models, N gauge would be more popular simply due to the fact you can fit twice as much in the space of a OO gauge layout, so if your space starved & want a decent layout it’s the obvious choice. Luckily I’ve built my fleet up since 2005 time, tho now regret selling off my old tooling Mark 2 air con coaches while we sit & continue the painful wait for the new tooled Mark 2fs that were announced years ago lol! Cheers, Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, 1977joey said: Luckily I’ve built my fleet up since 2005 time, tho now regret selling off my old tooling Mark 2 air con coaches while we sit & continue the painful wait for the new tooled Mark 2fs that were announced years ago lol! You sold yours too, I sold mine a couple of years back for a reasonable figure thinking of getting rid before the new ones appear - who'd have thought they would still be the only air conditioned Mks2 in town. They were the last of my old GF coaches, everything else had been replaced with Blue Riband, to be honest all they lacked was a close coupling, they still looked the part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977joey Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, woodenhead said: You sold yours too, I sold mine a couple of years back for a reasonable figure thinking of getting rid before the new ones appear - who'd have thought they would still be the only air conditioned Mks2 in town. They were the last of my old GF coaches, everything else had been replaced with Blue Riband, to be honest all they lacked was a close coupling, they still looked the part. yup I took the decision to sell mine off when the new tooled ones (which I’d had on order since they were announced) were promised in September, They were the Bachmann/Farish 2004 release & I had BR lines interiors fitted. The other thing that appeals with the new tooling ones is the NEM coupling socket as I’ve changed all my couplings on my stock that the old tooling lacked. When we got to September the new ones moved to December, when we got to December they jumped to June... this was before the current health crisis! Now it’s October, but I’ve just got to the stage I’ll believe it when I actually receive the email to say they’re in stock... it does make you feel pretty disillusioned, especially as the OO ones being available since autumn 2018 & also Hornby releasing their versions that were also soon in the shops, but N gaugers just have to sit & wait it out... Cheers Mark Edited April 22, 2020 by 1977joey 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I have tried to do some basic upgrades on my Mk2s, darkening the wheels and trying to add a bit of detail. I find that if you keep all the old Farish Mk2s in a single rake, their obvious limitations don't stand out so much. The problem comes when you insert a new Mk1 buffet car in the rake - the limitations of the old stock then become obvious. My other worry is the price increase - assuming they are about £40 each, that's £320 for an 8 coach full take - and some Western region expresses were a lot longer. Even if one could get the supply (I bet they won't produce enough TSOs), that's a big hole in the wallet. The bigger problem in N is 'first generation' DMUs. Will will ever get new 101s or 108s, let alone a 117 or a 105? Is it possible that a new supplier will step into the breach? Even in the 1980s in most locations half the passenger trains were DMUs, although they don't always appear as much in photos and videos of the time... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 It would be interesting to know the size of the British N gauge market (I know it gets said that it is 10% of OO) and whether it is growing, stagnant or shrinking. I have been looking through some early post 2000 N gauge catalogues recently and it seems the models were coming thick and fast-ish. We seem to have gone from famine to feast and back to er... getting hungry again. The other elephant in the room is price. If Bachmann released new models/reruns are people willing/able to pay £40 for a coach etc. Could it be that the prices are causing the market to shrink? Is British N gauge actually viable/worth the effort anymore from a commercial perspective? I am and always have been an N gauge modeller - the current situation is worrying for the long term health of the scale. Are we heading the way of 3mm? Kind regards Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted April 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2020 Heading the way of 3mm? Not N in general, but possibly British N. Seems to me Bachmann's efforts are proportional to the perceived amount of competition. When Dapol were producing models at a rapid rate, so were Farish. Now… Seems it's either a feast or a famine! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 What has caused issues are the delays in new models reaching shelves, this has resulted in supply slipping as people bought up what was left - but if you go to shows then there does appear to be plenty of N gauge stock available though perhaps not always the models people want at that time and place. Whilst it does make it difficult for someone wishing to start from scratch I think that as long as Bachmann, Dapol and Revolution plus Sonic keep supplying then the demand will be there. I've been collecting N since early 2000s and I offloaded a lot of the earlier stuff a couple of years back to fund a foray into OO, it was a bit disheartening to sell a full Dapol HST rake that had taken years to build whilst I waited on the various components but I realised I was never going to have a railway big enough for an 8 coach HST without compromising in some way. Didn't help that Dapol kept playing with shades of grey and black for the roof colour which did jar my eyes a bit when looking down on the train. I am glad now I stuck with my remaining stock but the locos haven't run for a couple of years, I hope everything is ok with them, will find out in a few days. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said: Heading the way of 3mm? Not N in general, but possibly British N. Seems to me Bachmann's efforts are proportional to the perceived amount of competition. When Dapol were producing models at a rapid rate, so were Farish. Now… Seems it's either a feast or a famine! If I saw Bachmann reacting to the OO plundering going on presently I might agree. What Bachmann appears to have done though is react in both scales to changes with regards chassis and sound fitting - perhaps that is causing problems as new models and re-runs are being readied for sound. In OO rather than rush out more product they have upped the level of detail to match competitors, in N it appears to be the sound ready route that they see as the way forward (and not a bad choice if you ask me as fitting sound in N is quite a challenge to most modellers). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) I have to say that the recent price hikes are certainly making me rethink my future buying policy and I shall definately have to abandon at least 1 out of the 3 'future projects' that I was buying for and sell these items to try to help fund future purchases ..... there is definitely a limit as to what I will go to in regards to what I consider the size/value ratio of N gauge models to be worth....and unfortunately for me we are not far from it now ! Incidentally I am also a 3mm modeller and it was the costs and my situation at the time (mortgage and young family) that partly pushed me in that direction and caused me to sell all of my then N gauge collection.....it is only the dramatic improvement in detailed models that tempted me to start buying N gauge once more.....admittedly I've ended up buying a heck of a lot more than I originally intended to. Regards, Ian. Edited April 22, 2020 by 03060 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, 03060 said: admittedly I've ended up buying a heck of a lot more than I originally intended to. You're not alone in that I don't think. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Get yourselves over to Hattons if you want some Farish Mark 1s - they have listed quite a few in secondhand today - some are in multiples. https://hattonshobbies.com/collections/preowned 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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