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N-drive Productions has an interesting website.

 

You could always talk to him.

 

Gordon A

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I've not found this one but it's probably a lot cheaper direct from China.

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4 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I came across these on eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Drive-1015-12v-DC-micro-motor/182870714017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Has anybody used them and what was the experience? Will they fit High Level gearboxes?

 

MTIA

Yes and yes , very good motor, much better than the cheap Chinese versions .

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Sadly they do not post to Canada.:(

 

Cheers,

 

David

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6 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I came across these on eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Drive-1015-12v-DC-micro-motor/182870714017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Has anybody used them and what was the experience? Will they fit High Level gearboxes?

 

MTIA

 

Most gearboxes from the usual suppliers (High Level, Branchlines, LRM, Markits and others) were designed around Mashima motors screw spacing. So those N Drives need to have the same mounting screw spacing and a bearing boss of the same or less diameter. As suggested, why not ask the seller what those dimensions are, so a comparison can be made with Mashima motors.

 

I am also intrigued by the claim "a 3 pole motor but wound to give a performance similar to a 5 pole it gives smooth slow speed running with a good level of torque".

2 hours ago, micklner said:

Yes and yes , very good motor, much better than the cheap Chinese versions .

Perhaps it is a cheap Chinese version at UK prices. Similar motors can be found online for as little as $.46 (36p) each for a minimum order of 500. Transport, duty, taxes will increase that but at £7.50 when Mashima 1015 are being sold at £23.50 - £28.00, they look like bargain.

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Good to see a source of a smaller motor. My extensive searches of the internet have so far failed to find a suitable replacement motor smaller than the Mitsumi M15N which is approximately a 1220, and not everything I build will take one of those.

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Dave

 

I think one of the most critical areas for motors is their ability to mesh correctly with decent gearboxes, the sleeve which takes the shaft to an OD if 1.5 mm will allow it to fit most worms from the main sellers. Two questions I have is with their ability to fit the motor mounts, secondly the quality of 3 pole motors (especially those without skewed armatures

 

This table from High Level may help if further details are found or a motor bought  http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/motorspage.html

 

High Level do have these motors available http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/motorspage.html   It might be worth having a chat with the likes of Chris at High Level or other suppliers Like John Redrup (London Road Models) or Dave Hammersley (Roxey) as I guess all have plans for replacements for their kits

 

I would be slightly wary of this due to it being a 3 pole motor, and of course the price, having said this it could be an inexpensive welcome addition to whats available. On High Level's website this note is on the gear box page

 

For smaller engines, space limitations may dictate a smaller motor, such as the 10 or 12-series Mashimas. Compared with the 14-series these are less powerful and faster-revving, but excellent slow running can still be achieved using one of our compact, high-ratio gearboxes and these combinations are surprisingly powerful.

 

Looks like it would be wise to choose a high ratio gear box , if you are going to Railex it might be worth asking a few questions

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:
 

Most gearboxes from the usual suppliers (High Level, Branchlines, LRM, Markits and others) were designed around Mashima motors screw spacing. So those N Drives need to have the same mounting screw spacing and a bearing boss of the same or less diameter. As suggested, why not ask the seller what those dimensions are, so a comparison can be made with Mashima motors.

 

I am also intrigued by the claim "a 3 pole motor but wound to give a performance similar to a 5 pole it gives smooth slow speed running with a good level of torque".

Perhaps it is a cheap Chinese version at UK prices. Similar motors can be found online for as little as $.46 (36p) each for a minimum order of 500. Transport, duty, taxes will increase that but at £7.50 when Mashima 1015 are being sold at £23.50 - £28.00, they look like bargain.

As in my earlier post yes to High level boxes, they fit  without any issues. I think he also sells the mounting screws if needed.

 

edit 

Just looked at the listing he provides the screws and a sleeve for the worm in the price as well , this since I bought my one last year.

Edited by micklner
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I have heard several good reports of the N-drive motor. Most motors of this size have 3-pole armatures if they are rated at 12v due to the difficulty of getting enough windings of the right size on each pole. Mostly any of this size or smaller with more poles are lower voltage, 10/8/6v etc. My experience with these types and smaller in 2mm is that they turn over quite well and slowly enough for that scale, with or without flywheel, but of course can/do benefit from DCC bemf control where this is used. Have to say that if I was using them in 4mm then I would want at least 60/70/80-1 reduction to allow them to generate enough power. Even the physically larger and quite well known Mitsumi d/s motors around only have quite small 3-pole armatures (tiny by comparison with smaller mashimas), but can produce a decent performance coupled to the right gearbox. I have one in a 43xx with a HL 60-1 box and it runs okay.

 

Izzy

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On 22/05/2019 at 15:13, micklner said:

Yes and yes , very good motor, much better than the cheap Chinese versions .

But surely these motors are also made in China and the only reason they're not cheap is that someone over here is adding on a hefty profit?

 

I've got one loco fitted with one of these N drive motors and two fitted with 10/15 "cheap Chinese" motors and they both seem to work just as well as each other. Both need to be sleeved to get the shaft to match the worms on High Level gearboxes but the others don't have the screw holes that line up. I don't see this as a problem and I simply solder them to the gearbox on one side only so that they can be easily removed by the touch of the iron, if necessary. With all High Level gearboxes now having the final drive gear with a grub screw there's no need to take the motor on and off to disengage the drive whilst testing anymore.

 

One thing about both the N drive and the cheap motors is that locos with the same gearing and wheel diameter don't need the controller turning up as much for the same performance as they do on the Mashimas, so they do seem to be better in that respect.

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If you requirements are for something a little larger then take a look here.https://www.cctrans.org.uk/

I have not tried them but going by the normal quality of product that John sells then I would see no reason to doubt what he says about them.

Bernard 

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7 hours ago, Ruston said:

But surely these motors are also made in China and the only reason they're not cheap is that someone over here is adding on a hefty profit?

 

I've got one loco fitted with one of these N drive motors and two fitted with 10/15 "cheap Chinese" motors and they both seem to work just as well as each other. Both need to be sleeved to get the shaft to match the worms on High Level gearboxes but the others don't have the screw holes that line up. I don't see this as a problem and I simply solder them to the gearbox on one side only so that they can be easily removed by the touch of the iron, if necessary. With all High Level gearboxes now having the final drive gear with a grub screw there's no need to take the motor on and off to disengage the drive whilst testing anymore.

 

One thing about both the N drive and the cheap motors is that locos with the same gearing and wheel diameter don't need the controller turning up as much for the same performance as they do on the Mashimas, so they do seem to be better in that respect.

 

Yes I agree as to China as probable source. I have used the cheaper motors via eBay (similar to the cc trans version) which are also good.

 

But to me the N version runs better , quieter and fits the High Level box . If I could find a cheaper source for the N version, I would obviously buy them from there , I personally have not found them for sale anyone else.  

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1 hour ago, micklner said:

 

Yes I agree as to China as probable source. I have used the cheaper motors via eBay (similar to the cc trans version) which are also good.

 

But to me the N version runs better , quieter and fits the High Level box . If I could find a cheaper source for the N version, I would obviously buy them from there , I personally have not found them for sale anyone else.  

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same motors.

 

The ones that I meant in my previous post are the same size as the N drive motors (10/15) and are as I described, as in the photo below.

pugbash-002.jpg

Whereas when you say the cheap motors, similar to the cctrans version do you mean the one in the photo below (which are,from what I have seen the exact same as the cctrans motors but bought direct from China cost under £1 each). These are larger (about 12/20) than the one above and have a slower top speed.

Brush-014.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same motors.

 

The ones that I meant in my previous post are the same size as the N drive motors (10/15) and are as I described, as in the photo below.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_10_2018/post-494-0-37287100-1539434602.jpg

Whereas when you say the cheap motors, similar to the cctrans version do you mean the one in the photo below (which are,from what I have seen the exact same as the cctrans motors but bought direct from China cost under £1 each). These are larger (about 12/20) than the one above and have a slower top speed.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-494-0-79529600-1498933305.jpg

You are correct I never realised you have a source for same size as N motors which is please ?? 

 

Yes the Mitsumi ones in the photo are the ones I also mentioned, and sourced via eBay for a very good price.

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Might be worth trying the square 6 pole motors in various sizes .they are great in my smaller ho brass.see ebay ..of course.I use most of the  Mabuchi chinese motors and can report they all work fine .I also put the little mitsumis in Hon3 brass and they run as sweetly if not better that a Mashima and a bit cooler ,Probably due to BMW using them in their door locks.As they are only a quid or so each I have tried to blow one but they have refused to cooperate .Bloody Chinese junk .you think they could burn out when ordered .

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Do you have a link for the square 6 pole motors please?

 

Gordon A

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7 hours ago, Gordon A said:

Do you have a link for the square 6 pole motors please?

 

Gordon A

.There is also a larger version  which i put in a UP 2-8-0 .Plenty of grunt  They are not high revving so great for locos that do work .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Minebea-Square-Motor-DC-12V-18V-6500RPM-10000RPM-Large-Torque-6-Pole-Rotor/282303561073?epid=519347888&hash=item41ba9a7d71:g:TUQAAOSwA3dYIu01

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1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I've been casting an eye over these, they look very DS10 ish which IMHO was always a decent motor.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2Pcs-DC-12V-36500RPM-5-pole-rotor-dc-motor-high-speed-dual-shaft-carbon-brush6ON/323803328870?hash=item4b642eb166:g:L8IAAOSw5EpcE1xC

 

Mike.

 

 

No fixing holes, which is a hassle though not insurmountable I suppose.

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1 hour ago, friscopete said:

.There is also a larger version  which i put in a UP 2-8-0 .Plenty of grunt  They are not high revving so great for locos that do work .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Minebea-Square-Motor-DC-12V-18V-6500RPM-10000RPM-Large-Torque-6-Pole-Rotor/282303561073?epid=519347888&hash=item41ba9a7d71:g:TUQAAOSwA3dYIu01

 

 

They look good ive ordered a few of those. 

 

 

Without wanting to take this off topic. What decoders would be recommmended for these various motors?

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11 hours ago, micklner said:

You are correct I never realised you have a source for same size as N motors which is please ?? 

 

Yes the Mitsumi ones in the photo are the ones I also mentioned, and sourced via eBay for a very good price.

They are known as N20, which is some kind of size reference. N20 are the motors that are often bought with a gearbox attached and it was these I was searching for when I found N20s without a gearbox. I no longer have the details but if you search ebay for N20 motors you should find them.

 

The same motor with gearbox attached.

Longboiler-002.jpg

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A very imaginative (and good) installation, Dave!

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15 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I've been casting an eye over these, they look very DS10 ish which IMHO was always a decent motor.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2Pcs-DC-12V-36500RPM-5-pole-rotor-dc-motor-high-speed-dual-shaft-carbon-brush6ON/323803328870?hash=item4b642eb166:g:L8IAAOSw5EpcE1xC

 

Mike. 

 

 

Good Lord, you're not praising the poor old DS 10, are you? It's had all sorts of acrimony poured over it in recent years by those who favour fancy, modern, mainly  Mashima-or-clones stuff, but it always worked well for me in my EM stud (even if I did 'brew up' a couple from cack-handedness when running in chassis). RIP DS10, DS11 and DS12, gone but not forgotten (although a couple of mine might yet get cannibalized if the Mashima replacements from CCTrans don't eventually measure up - they run extremely sweetly unloaded, but I have not yet incorporated one into anything to test under load).

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