Miss Prism Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Having been involved in the development stage of the Genesis range, the Hattons news today is very sad. 3 6 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8 The Genesis range is a significant asset - I would be surprised if it doesn't get sold to someone. Highly unlikely to be Accurascale as with the 66 of course but several other possibilities - a "watch this space" situation I think. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8 18 minutes ago, Bucoops said: The Genesis range is a significant asset - I would be surprised if it doesn't get sold to someone. Highly unlikely to be Accurascale as with the 66 of course but several other possibilities - a "watch this space" situation I think. Would much rather they still remained a Hattons product though.... Hattons development of them was a real bonus to the hobby and as such morally speaking it feels that they should be the ones to reap the rewards for many years to come. 14 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8 38 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: Would much rather they still remained a Hattons product though.... Hattons development of them was a real bonus to the hobby and as such morally speaking it feels that they should be the ones to reap the rewards for many years to come. Agree entirely but with today's announcement, that's not going to happen. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post phil-b259 Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 8 (edited) 15 hours ago, Bucoops said: Agree entirely but with today's announcement, that's not going to happen. But equally kicking up a fuss / speculating on here won't help either! The quality of the product speaks for itself and not only would the business owners (Hattons) want to maximise the returns they can get from the orderly disposal of the companys assets I'm sure there are people in the employ of other manufactures who appreciate the quality of the Genesis coaches too who could be interested in obtaining them…. OK so people may miss out on getting the liveries they have been salivating over for batch 3 etc but there is a fair chance that when the dust has settled they will pop up in another manufacturers range. However for the moment our thoughts should be with the people behind / who work at Hattons (plus their families and friends)..... Edited January 9 by phil-b259 5 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edwardian Posted January 8 Popular Post Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Miss Prism said: Having been involved in the development stage of the Genesis range, the Hattons news today is very sad. Ditto, and like you and Stephen, having been involved in advising on the Genesis coaches, and - I suppose it's OK to say this now - advising on the proposed generic short bogie coaches, it is sad to see the loss of the Hattons exclusive range, as well as the demise of a very friendly and efficient retailer. Sad day for the hobby and thoughts to all those affected. 9 14 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, Compound2632 said: It's a great shame that Batch 3 will not now be produced and that the door now seems to be closed to bogie carriages, which, I understand, were under serious consideration. 1 hour ago, melmerby said: I've got some lighting units on order. I can say goodbye to those. Are they ceasing production? I haven't seen any notice to that effect. EDIT I've just seen the news that Hattons is closing down. Edited January 8 by PhilJ W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, PhilJ W said: Are they ceasing production? I haven't seen any notice to that effect. Yes and no! We are told that batch 2 of the Genesis coaches will be produced (presumably because the factory has already been paid for in some manor), the P-tank re-run might or might not happen but re-runs of the industrials are cancelled. My take would be that where monies have been invested and cannot be reclaimed from the factory then production will continue so as to get something for the cash. In situation where either monies have not been handed over yet or the contractoral relationships permit monies to be refunded to Hattons then production will not take place. Given the lighting units were designed to be made in conjunction with the genesis coaches I suspect they may well come to market. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, PhilJ W said: Are they ceasing production? I haven't seen any notice to that effect. I know they were about to place a final order with the factory. They have been produced in batches and this was to be the final one. I missed the last run. They are in a trunk pre-order and all trunks will be cleared in around one months time. Probably not much point in ordering any if they have possibly ceased trading before the expected delivery date. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8 23 minutes ago, melmerby said: I know they were about to place a final order with the factory. They have been produced in batches and this was to be the final one. I missed the last run. They are in a trunk pre-order and all trunks will be cleared in around one months time. Probably not much point in ordering any if they have possibly ceased trading before the expected delivery date. Hattons have said the second batch will be produced - I assume because the factory has already been paid. The lighting units were part of that, so I assume they are coming as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8 (edited) 33 minutes ago, melmerby said: I know they were about to place a final order with the factory. They have been produced in batches and this was to be the final one. I missed the last run. They are in a trunk pre-order and all trunks will be cleared in around one months time. Probably not much point in ordering any if they have possibly ceased trading before the expected delivery date. Please remember this is NOT a bankruptcy / insolvency! As such Hattons can continue to exist as a fully solvent company even after the physical shop and online store shut for as long as it wishes to do so. This contrasts with insolvency proceedings when the timetable is determined by the receivers and not the owners - (and yes in such cases a prompt winding up of affairs is the norm) Consequently I see no reason why Hattons cannot remain in existence to take delivery of the genesis coaches - even if they have to get another retailer to do the actual distribution of the coaches to customers. Edited January 8 by phil-b259 8 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 9 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9 16 hours ago, phil-b259 said: But equally kicking up a fuss / speculating on here won't help either! The quality of the product speaks for itself and not only would the business owners (Hattons) want to maximise the returns they can get from the orderly disposal of the companys assets I'm sure there are people in the employ of other manufactures who appreciate the quality of the Genesis coaches too who could be interested in obtaining them…. OK so people may miss out on getting the liveries they have been salivating over for batch 3 etc but there is a fair chance that when the dust has settled they will pop up in another manufacturers range. However for the moment our thoughts should be with the people behind / who work at Hattons (plus their families and friends)..... I'm not kicking up a fuss? Most of what you have said is in line with what I have said so I'm a bit puzzled. As I've already said, Hattons won't be maximising the potential of the tooling as they have already said that batch 3 won't be happening, but hopefully another entity will purchase the tooling so there will be more future models. Again, I've already said this. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bucoops said: Hattons won't be maximising the potential of the tooling Yet! Given that the tooling is currently being used to create the 2nd batch of Genesis coaches Hattons can hardly go and sell it off to anyone else straight away! What else where you expecting? someone to snap up the tooling and announce to the world they would go ahead with batch 3 literally hours after Hattons said it was closing? (because thats what it sounds like to me) In reality I expect that the tooling and associated IP for the coaches, etc will be the LAST things that will be disposed off before the company gets wound up, not the first as lots of folk (including you) seem to be expecting. When that happens (and I'm pretty sure it will be taken over by someone in due course), its likely the new owners of the tooling will not want to waste time leaving the tooling in storage / mothballed given how well received the coaches have been by the hobby. In the meantime you will just have to sit back and let things unfold at their own pace - hence my earlier comment that fussing about kicking up a fuss...... Edited January 9 by phil-b259 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schooner Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, phil-b259 said: will be the LAST things that will be disposed Clearly not, as batch 3 of this highly popular and - we all at least assumed - highly profitable product has been definitively canceled. All other statements are speculatuon only. It is fine to hold and share an opinion, but if only stated and not supported it is not persuasive. Batch 2 production is underway, and presumably the cost of breach of contract with the manufacturer at this stage exceeds any savings. I cannot see why a transfer of these assests could not take place now, or why it could not already have done so. The impression I have is that manufacturing slots are the bottleneck; everything else revolves around that. Fingers x'd for batch 3 and short bogie stock. No good for me, but definitely good for the hobby! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Schooner said: Clearly not, as batch 3 of this highly popular and - we all at least assumed - highly profitable product has been definitively canceled. All other statements are speculatuon only. It is fine to hold and share an opinion, but if only stated and not supported it is not persuasive. Batch 2 production is underway, and presumably the cost of breach of contract with the manufacturer at this stage exceeds any savings. I cannot see why a transfer of these assests could not take place now, or why it could not already have done so. The impression I have is that manufacturing slots are the bottleneck; everything else revolves around that. Fingers x'd for batch 3 and short bogie stock. No good for me, but definitely good for the hobby! Look, Hattons have said quite clearly they are closing down - they want to "cease to be" as was once said of a Parrot in a comedy sketch. They cannot achieve this aim but simultaneously commit to producing further batches of Genesis coaches - and only a fool would pretend that they could! Were it not for the 2nd batch being due to start production imminently (and thus already paid for by Hattons) I expect they would have been cancelled too - stop deluding yourself that the fact they are apparently still on course to arrive is anything more than a desire from Hattons owners to not write off all the money they have spent on them thus far. Yes, I get you and others* are massively disappointed that there won't be any more batches coming from Hattons - but stop pedalling fantasies or inventing nonsense just to make yourself feel better. I repeat - the quality of the Genesis models and the way they were received by the hobby means the Hattons tooling is a valuable asset - which, as with all assets under Hattons ownership, should be sold on to a new owner for the best price as part of the closure process. Once that process has been completed then I fully expect them to reappear on the market somewhere and your much desired 'batch 3' is very likely to form part of that - it just means a couple of years delay.... * I too was planning to order some of the batch 3 coaches and would have very much been up for buying some of the mooted short bogie stock too. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schooner Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Looking... ... ...still can't see that it's impossible to wind down some product ranges, or entire sectors of business, whilst continuing others. Hornby have managed to stop producing their old 'generic pre-grouping 4W coach' whilst starting an entirely new product line of the same. Unsure where delusion is creeping in. As previously stated, I have no desire for any of the Gensis range, but believe them to be a positive development and subsequent asset for the hobby. 5 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: but stop pedalling fantasies or inventing nonsense just to make yourself feel better. Couldn't have put it better myself. Although I like to think I haven't been quite so uncharming about it. Edited January 9 by Schooner 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted January 9 Administrators Share Posted January 9 24 minutes ago, Schooner said: ...still can't see that it's impossible to wind down some product ranges, or entire sectors of business, whilst continuing others. And you also aren't sat in the Hattons boardroom deciding how the process is going to play out. There is likely a whole lot of stuff none of us know about. Please stop playing armchair businessman and let things clear up. 10 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Other than the planned coaches that I have on order today I have been sorting out alternative suppliers for other items. Might have been better to have said "retiring from the business". Batch 3 would make a nice portfolio for another maker to take on any future releases, whom would be down to striking a deal. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I have just received an email saying they cannot fulfil my pre order of a lighting board 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Schooner said: ...still can't see that it's impossible to wind down some product ranges, or entire sectors of business, whilst continuing others. Because Hattons are CLOSING DOWN! What part of those two words do you not understand? The end of this process will see Hattons completely vanish as a legal entity - nothing will remain! A company cannot completely close down in the financial and legal sense yet simultaiously stay in business. Yes a company might close a division to concentrate on another aspect of their business (for example abandon retiling but continue as a manufacturer for example but this is NOT what is happening with Hattons (based on the public statements they have made) Edited January 9 by phil-b259 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Popular Post Phil Parker Posted January 9 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted January 9 OK, I give up. I can't firefight all over the forum, so this thread can be locked for a few days. Let's wait and see what Hattons decide to do. 15 4 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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