'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

But Mr King isn't saying 3D printing should be dismissed, he is saying he finds it strange that it seems to be the default go-to solution when resin casting is a decent alternative. I also have quite a few of Bill's prints and the resin he uses is superb - as you say it is very flexible.

 

 

I'm confused.

What are cast and what are printed?

[Bucoops]

41 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'm confused.

What are cast and what are printed?

 

Assuming I've not misunderstood the question (very possible), casting uses a mould and the resin is poured, printing uses a 3D printer. 

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Assuming I've not misunderstood the question (very possible), casting uses a mould and the resin is poured, printing uses a 3D printer. 

I agree

 

It looks like there is a cross somewhere as we have resin & printing in the same phrase

58 minutes ago, melmerby said:

a few of Bill's prints and the resin he uses is superb

I understand there are resin printing systems but aren't most done by laying down layers of plastics?

Or are Bill's resin prints?

Edited July 2, 2023 by melmerby

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It looks like there is a cross somewhere as we have resin & printing in the same phrase

I understand there are resin printing systems but aren't most done by laying down layers of plastics?

Or are Bill's resin prints?

 

The best results I've seen are obtained by 3D printing using resin. This is the technique currently used by Mousa Models, I believe. 

[Bucoops]

53 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I agree

 

It looks like there is a cross somewhere as we have resin & printing in the same phrase

I understand there are resin printing systems but aren't most done by laying down layers of plastics?

Or are Bill's resin prints?

 

They are definitely resin 🙂

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

SLA resin printing can produce very good finishes, but is slow and messy. The finished product usually requires washing and UV curing. That is the system Bill Bedford (Mousa Models) and Modelu use (as do a lot of amateur 3d printers). High quality SLA 3D prints are sometimes used for master patterns for resin casting, as in the boiler/smokebox/chimney/dome/safety valve casting in the London Road Models LNWR 0-4-0T and 0-4-2T Crane Tank kits

 

Filament printing uses a heated plastic filament extruded through a nozzle and generally doesn't produce such a smooth finish. I believe that is the system that Isinglass use.

 

I think 3D printing is in a similar situation as early etched kits were, where the benefits and best application of the technology is still being understood.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

28 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I think 3D printing is in a similar situation as early etched kits were, where the benefits and best application of the technology is still being understood.

 

Yeah.  3D is definitely still a black art. 

 

Some of the stuff being produced is extremely good, some of it leaves a lot to be desired.  All depends on the technical knowledge and experience of those doing it, their choice of materials and the quality of the equipment they can afford.  And unless you're making shared models already developed by others, you have got to produce the data needed to drive the machine.  I might have taken it up if the state of the art had become affordable a couple of decdes earlier, but I'm afraid there's too much of a learning curve for me, at my age I doubt I would be able to afford the time or the money needed to get to the standard I would want.   But I definitely see business opportunities for those who can devote enough resources to it.

[billbedford]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

And unless you're making shared models already developed by others, you have got to produce the data needed to drive the machine. 

 

That is true of any form of series production, whether it's injection moulding, photo-etching or white metal casting. 

[Schooner]

Something which I think is probably also relevant is the ease and accessibility of design tools, and the very low investment required.

 

As a little test, in between writing previous posts I was able to research, download, and learn via the in-program tutorials some new (to me) free CAD software, in this case Shapr3D. Within an hour's pottering about around other tasks, I had a passable (YMMV) clerestory roof design. The file could be sent to the printers in the morning, and I could have as many as I wanted in a day or two.

 

Investment cost: £0. Even the time spent was 'dead' time when I'd only have been on RMWeb or whatever anyway. And it was kinda fun, and I had a quick look at some new software. I can outsource the production to a competitive commercial supplier - not cheap, but not ruinous. Preferable, in my circs at this time, to buying a printer and learning how to do it all myself. So I also have some control over my level of engagement, and associated set-up and production costs.

 

Compare this to the time, effort, cost, and skill required to, IIUC,

• design a master
• build master
• create mould
• test mould
• buy resin
• trial cast
• correct master and mould
• production cast

And really we still feel the need to ask why these little highly variable, low volume suck-it-and-see products are massively more popular as CAD and 3D printing projects...?!

 

Personally, as I proved to myself not two days ago, I'd rather model bits and bobs by hand in the traditional media for things I need for myself because although the end result is 'worse' I enjoy the process more. It would still be disingenuous of me to pour scorn on any alternative methods.

 

EDIT: I should probably make clear that whilst I have plans for a clerestory coach* 

I don't have any skin in the Genesis game, nor plans to join in the forseeable.

 

*And the artwork, to be sent off to be etched once the backlog is reduced. Just as I'd anticipate using 3D printing services. Thanks to the sterling efforts of the likes of @BlueLightning and exciting plans of @Din and co, such services look set to improve dramatically for railway modellers, in additional to the continual growth in size and skill of 'domestic' producers.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Schooner

[BlueLightning]

14 hours ago, Schooner said:

I can outsource the production to a competitive commercial supplier - not cheap, but not ruinous.

 

Printing services at my shop at £3 per hour of print time (Plus postage), we don't charge cost for the resin as it is generally minimal anyway, I would imagine for a Genesis roof it would be 2 or 3 hours on the printer, so not massive costs.

 

Not an advert, just trying to add to the costs of printing argument. and detail can be quite impressive, this axlebox is 4mm, the layer lies are invisible with the naked eye. this is a failed test print, so ignore the wobbliness of the solebar above, and the extra material on the bottom of the springs

 

Gary

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by BlueLightning

[Michael Hodgson]

19 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

 this is a failed test print, so ignore the wobbliness of the solebar above, and the extra material on the bottom of the springs

 

 

That is the sort of practical issue I keep reading about on 3D threads, where people seem to have to build up a fair bit of experience before they can get the best quality results, and I get the impression that failed runs and tweaking commonly often seem to be a necssary step.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

That is the sort of practical issue I keep reading about on 3D threads, where people seem to have to build up a fair bit of experience before they can get the best quality results, and I get the impression that failed runs and tweaking commonly often seem to be a necssary step.

 

But that is true of pretty well all types of modelling. One has to practice and to accept that you will have failures, or at least less than ideal results, along the way.

[Schooner]

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

trying to add to the costs of printing argument.

Thank you, it's always really helpful to be able to plug some real figures into these chats. Thanks also for the excellent service!

 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

and I get the impression that failed runs and tweaking commonly often seem to be a necssary step.

Oh, maybe 3D printing will suit my MO after all!

 

[BlueLightning]

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

That is the sort of practical issue I keep reading about on 3D threads, where people seem to have to build up a fair bit of experience before they can get the best quality results, and I get the impression that failed runs and tweaking commonly often seem to be a necssary step.

 

I would agree with Compound that the same can be said for most aspects of modelling, in this case, I knew it would fail before I printed it, I wanted to try some settings on the printer I wouldn't usually touch, and had a file that would show the results well enough even though it wasn't suitably prepared.

 

The results of the test were that I won't be touching those settings again, the improvement I got from them was not enough to justify the extra time spent printing.

 

So that was very much a case of learning the machine more, and improving my own skill set with the software associated with it.

 

Gary

 

EDIT: I should add that under the proper settings that I set the file up for I have printed many many copies of it just fine, and learning how to setup the prints didn't take long, 99% of my files don't need tweaking after initial setup.

Edited July 3, 2023 by BlueLightning

[barrymx5]

Hattons really have missed a trick with SDJR coaches.  Slated for batch 3 with no projected date. Those who grew impatient and finally decided to buy the probably inferior Hornby version which was recently released are finding they are like hens teeth. 

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, barrymx5 said:

Hattons really have missed a trick with SDJR coaches.  Slated for batch 3 with no projected date. 

 

But once they're here, will look a bit more like (some) S&DJR carriages.

[D3489gibson]

Think I'm going to have to order some MET ones when they get announced... picked this little beauty up in Brighton today and it needs some coaches now 

 

Hopefully in the near future! 

 

Nathan...

[Hattons Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

We have received the first wave of decorated samples for our second batch of Genesis coaches!

 

 

We are very pleased with how these samples look and we're sure you will feel the same. The remaining samples are due to arrive soon, and we will share another update in due course.

 

Please be aware, many of our Batch 2 models have already sold-out on preorder and others have limited quantities remaining. We highly recommend that you place a pre-order as soon as possible to ensure your models are secured.

 

VISIT OUR WEBSITE to view full 360 photos of each sample.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Barry Ten]

Will these be available in lit versions as well, Dave? The pre-order link I got in my email appeared to be for non-lit ones only.

[Moxy]

Lighting packs are separate from batch 2 onwards.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/article?id=594&utm_source=rmweb&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=modvehid5011-hattonsgenesisbatch2decosampleswave1#lights

 

You have to fit your own, if I have read this correctly.

[Hattons Dave]

7 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Will these be available in lit versions as well, Dave? The pre-order link I got in my email appeared to be for non-lit ones only.

 

Hi Barry,

 

All of our second batch of coaches are supplied unlit and we offer the lighting bars as an optional extra to fit separately: https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults?search/q/genesis lighting/product-types/Lighting equipment

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

All of our second batch of coaches are supplied unlit and we offer the lighting bars as an optional extra to fit separately: https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults?search/q/genesis lighting/product-types/Lighting equipment

 

That seems to me to be a very sensible bit of learning from Batch 1.

[James Harrison]

Ah, I've 'accidentally' ordered a second rake after seeing the GCR samples.  No idea how that happened... 🤣 

[NZRedBaron]

Got to say, the L&YR coaches look right smashing, they do; kind of makes me wonder/hope if Bachmann could be persuaded into doing another run of the Aspinall Class 5's in LYR colours.

 

EDIT: Also, is there any chance we could see another set of formation guides for these Batch 2 coaches?

Edited August 1, 2023 by NZRedBaron
Added thought.

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

EDIT: Also, is there any chance we could see another set of formation guides for these Batch 2 coaches?

 

The formation guides were pretty much fantasy. So long as you've got a brake end or full brake at each end and the first class in the middle, you won't go far wrong.