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Hattons Dave

'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

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4 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Whoever has an "Improved Precedent" in design, 'fess up for goodness sake, I'm nearing completion of my current layout and several would be highly useful for the next project...

Well, on the basis of today's announcement, perhaps EFE??!!  :lol:

(Sits back, opens popcorn...)

 

Richard

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@Hattons Dave Thanks again for sharing the CAD files, they have been most enlightening! As a bit of a carriage nerd, the 4- and 6-wheelers are gorgeous with very little to fault. You seem to have an extraneous door handle and grab rail on one side of the 4-wheel brake third here:
 image.png.1e0e76cf3de451b69bdd79283744366a.png

On a personal-preferences front, the buffer casings (not the shanks) seem slightly long (even for pre-grouping coaches)?

Finally, I notice you've even included the toilets in the lavatory compartments, which made me smile! I am very much looking forward to these, please keep up the good work!

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May I recommend the Oakwood book on the Barry Railway rolling stock by the late E.R. Mountford. It covers a lot of what is termed Generic, and shows up a lot of information for the period modeller.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

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5 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Quite and could be the key to how popular the sales are of the particular vehicle. To be fair to Hatton's the spec mentions the central wheelset slides for tight curves.

You can just about see a slider mechanism for the centre wheelset, granted its hard to see being an all white CAD model. Clues are cutouts in the centre part of the stepboards probably show the extent of the how far the centre axle slides.

 

Ive just takes a quick look at the CAD's which look great. And I've noticed the footboard are screwed to the chassis rather than glued tabs. Pretty neat and should allow easy changing if one were to get broken in future. 

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Wow, this is an exciting development. I will certainly be ordering some after a little more reading!

 

This thread has been a rollercoaster of a read of all 75 pages over the last two nights, and been very illuminating into a significant spectrum of the hobby for me, returning after a break of 20 years. 

 

At the risk of opening yet another can of worms, I do have a question for the assembled wisdom here that was not in any of the previous replies (I checked!) - the LSWR tan and umber is not a livery I'm familiar with, most online research steers you towards the salmon and brown liveries as being typical for LSWR coaching stock. So when was the livery that Hattons have selected for the LSWR models representative of? 

 

I'm really after comments on the livery only, please - I am sadly not as gifted with free time and energy to spend in that time as some of the luckier modellers here, who have expressed intentions of modifying the coach bodies of their future purchases to be closer to their preferred prototype (that can of worms is not being reopened on my watch!). This will be very much for a layout as close as I can get to ~1900 LSWR Southampton and surroundings in RTR. Modification may be a future pipe dream.

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12 minutes ago, LightBrigade said:

At the risk of opening yet another can of worms, I do have a question for the assembled wisdom here that was not in any of the previous replies (I checked!) - the LSWR tan and umber is not a livery I'm familiar with, most online research steers you towards the salmon and brown liveries as being typical for LSWR coaching stock. So when was the livery that Hattons have selected for the LSWR models representative of? 

 

I think Hattons mean the salmon and brown livery, which was the carriage livery from at least 1885 until green was adopted in 1921. Umber/brown are reasonably synonymous and the salmon could well be described as tan - I wonder if that was the official description?

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Posted (edited)
On 04/08/2020 at 18:43, Skinnylinny said:

A close inspection does show that the axle between the wheels appears rather thicker than the axle outside the wheels, suggesting that they are mounted on a tube which slides on the axle? I'm having a lot of fun investigating various features. I especially like the longer J hangers on the centre axles of the 6 wheelers, the fact they've not fallen into the trap of trying to have brakes on the centre wheelset, and the bolection mouldings. The fact that even the door locks seem to have been represented is a bonus!

I'm hard pressed to find any negatives with the CAD work that jump out - my only slight quibble is the thought that (to me!) the buffer casings look a little long, even for a pre-grouping carriage, but that's a personal preference. Oh, and the three link coupling is a nice touch, but ought to be a screw-link on passenger-rated stock.

I'm now trying to figure out how the thing goes together. How about an exploded photo, Hattons?

 

On the CAD I am looking at (6-wheel full brake) there is allowance for the centre wheel to slide, there is a recess with the complete axle, hangers, springs etc. moving and a cut-out in the running board into which it may fit.

 

Tried to show it here, but it is not overly clear:

 

image.png.8300313aa53c99208233463fe892eaa0.png

 

Roy 

Edited by Roy Langridge
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10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think Hattons mean the salmon and brown livery, which was the carriage livery from at least 1885 until green was adopted in 1921. Umber/brown are reasonably synonymous and the salmon could well be described as tan - I wonder if that was the official description?

 

Its now being described as "Brown & Umber" on the Hattons website. I'd definitely like some of these, but I want to see the artwork before pre-ordering. 

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Using this button at the top you can change how it is rendered: Screenshot_20200805-105145.png.4b7c14da9421487a1ede0f5fa7bc771c.png

 

The translucent blue and wireframe options make it far easier to see what is going on. As far as I can see, they have just left some clearance around the axle ends.

 

I would recommend looking at the models with the different renderings, you can even see the luggage racks in the compartments

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16 hours ago, MarkSG said:

They do look nice. I'm planning on getting one in BR breakdown train red to go with the Bachmann Ransomes and Rapier crane, but it did occur to me that one in LNER brown would be a good static feature, heavily weathered and parked in a siding that, too, clearly hasn't seen traffic for a while (lots of grass between the track and very rusty rails) - maybe with a jerry-rigged set of steps to the door, making it look like it's being used as a makeshift mess room or store.

 

On the latter note, these would also make a good basis for the ever popular "grounded coach" scene. I wonder if Hattons might consider releasing a version with no chassis, just the body, for precisely that purpose. It would save hacking about with a complete one.

 

 

I was hoping for the 6-wheel chassis on it's own!

 

It might make a good basis for replacing the dog's breakfast masquerading as a chassis under the Dapol-for-Hornby-Magazine Stove R., and the even worse effort that Hornby inflict on their Palethorpes vans.

 

So, if you are going to chuck any, please chuck them my way. :)

 

John

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4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

On that CAD I am looking at (6-whel full brake) there is allowance for the centre wheel to slide, there is a recess with the complete axle, hangers, springs etc. moving and a cut-out in the running board into which it may fit.

 

Tried to show it here, but it is not overly clear:

 

image.png.8300313aa53c99208233463fe892eaa0.png

 

Roy 

Thanks for blowing up the relevant section.

 

I tend to agree with your interpretation of how the part is intended to work.

 

It looks like a good practical solution for the kind of "layout coach" these are designed to be.

 

I've already pre-ordered some BR-livery ones for breakdown train/mess coach/parcels duties. Also planning a couple in SR green to turn into Camping Coaches and contemplating a five or six-coach rake in LSWR to go with the T3 that is bound to turn up once the Swanage Railway gets the prototype up and running...

 

John

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Seeing these CADs has definitely increased my interest, will watch with interest. The SR department ones & breaks might be useful in military trains or with my breakdown crane =) 

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15 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Seeing these CADs has definitely increased my interest, will watch with interest. The SR department ones & breaks might be useful in military trains or with my breakdown crane =) 

 

Reading this comment has triggered the thought, what color scheme, if any, would be suitable for the coaches in a ROD WW1 setting? We have some lovely locomotives these days in model form.

 

I know there are several experts here that may be able to help. Is there a prototype? or something close enough? Thanks in advance.

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Well done Hattons, seeing the CAD as opposed to radio silence and the 'it'll be ready when it's ready' approach is refreshing. Duly pre-ordered a set of the LNERs and couldn't resist a couple of the GNR four-wheelers either.

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4 hours ago, Ronny said:

 

Reading this comment has triggered the thought, what color scheme, if any, would be suitable for the coaches in a ROD WW1 setting? We have some lovely locomotives these days in model form.

 

I know there are several experts here that may be able to help. Is there a prototype? or something close enough? Thanks in advance.

I'm no expert but I have seen pictures of a six wheel full brake in Great War military service. 

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Many coaches were requestioned / purchased for WW1 use in France, these would have mainly been used for troop transport well behind the lines and likely remained in their original railway liveries. Post war they were returned to the UK, some back into railway service  but many older vehicles such as four and 6 wheelers were no longer wanted.

Places like Ashford ended up with stored vehicles which were then scrapped, this has resulted in the South Coast hosting some grounded bodies which are far from their railway of origin.

Vehicles used by the ROD in Britain are more likely to have received a military livery, these would have been for more specific uses and there was time and staff available to paint them.

 

Pete

 

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1 hour ago, IWCR said:

Many coaches were requestioned / purchased for WW1 use in France, these would have mainly been used for troop transport well behind the lines and likely remained in their original railway liveries. Post war they were returned to the UK, some back into railway service  but many older vehicles such as four and 6 wheelers were no longer wanted.

Places like Ashford ended up with stored vehicles which were then scrapped, this has resulted in the South Coast hosting some grounded bodies which are far from their railway of origin.

Vehicles used by the ROD in Britain are more likely to have received a military livery, these would have been for more specific uses and there was time and staff available to paint them.

 

Pete

 

 

Are you able to provide examples and quantities? Other than hospital trains, which are well-documented and composed of the latest bogie stock.

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Well, that’s £150 worth ordered for me. Was toying with the lit versions, but on reflection I’ve never really been happy with the lighting on any model coach I’ve ever seen (suspect it’s me being picky rather than faults with the models)  so I’ve opted for ‘no’ on that. Plus, it more or less lets me buy another coach within budget :)

 

My prospective layout is based on a preserved railway Gala, so I’ve pre ordered to below to be run behind my Stirling Single :)

 

AE6-E953-B-7-B1-F-4-E45-891-D-D836887039

 

A darn good idea by Hattons and I sincerely doubt that it will be the last purchase of these coaches I make from them :)

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On 04/08/2020 at 18:43, Skinnylinny said:

A close inspection does show that the axle between the wheels appears rather thicker than the axle outside the wheels, suggesting that they are mounted on a tube which slides on the axle? 

 

Ive had a proper look at the drawings in the x-ray view and it appears the larger diameter axle centre could be a plastic tube/sleeve in which the wheel and half axle is pushes into, to aid gauging perhaps.

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50 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

Ive had a proper look at the drawings in the x-ray view and it appears the larger diameter axle centre could be a plastic tube/sleeve in which the wheel and half axle is pushes into, to aid gauging perhaps.


Indeed, if the carriages are to be lit, it could be that an all-metal wheel+axle unit connects to the internal wiring through a metal pinpoint bearing - invisible, low friction pickups!

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I've just been checking out the CAD's for the 6 wheel coaches. From the looks of it, the seating appears to lie within the brake compartment. Don't know whether this is an error or not, but some passengers won't be able to see outside!! :P

Screenshot 2020-08-14 at 15.30.00.png

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2 hours ago, Simonsteel said:

I've just been checking out the CAD's for the 6 wheel coaches. From the looks of it, the seating appears to lie within the brake compartment. Don't know whether this is an error or not, but some passengers won't be able to see outside!! :P

 

 

That's well spotted! I suspect it is a mistake in the CAD. But it's the sort of thing that ought to be easy to fix, of course.

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