Model Railway Club 'Safeguarding' policy. Help Please?

[dasatcopthorne]

All.

 

Does your Club have a Child & Vulnerable Person Safeguarding Policy please?

 

I'm, quite frankly. struggling with all the parts that need taking into account.

 

I would love to see someone else's attempt please?

 

Cheers.

Dave

[Oldddudders]

13 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said:

All.

 

Does your Club have a Child & Vulnerable Person Safeguarding Policy please?

 

I'm, quite frankly. struggling with all the parts that need taking into account.

 

I would love to see someone else's attempt please?

 

Cheers.

Dave

 

 

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/templates/example-safeguarding-policy-statement/

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

25 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said:

...I'm quite frankly struggling with all the parts that need taking into account...

You are not alone, it's a struggle for anyone trying to make a good job of it.

 

I strongly second Ian's suggestion of starting from a reputable national specialist organisation's template. You really don't want to invest effort in some other random organisation's misunderstanding of what is required.

[sir douglas]

i dont know our clubs policy but the basic 1 is that anybody under 16 must be accompanied at all times by the parent/guardian or someone designated by parent/guardian

[kevinlms]

Slightly off topic, but here in Australia, the various state governments have taken the hard part out of this.

 

We can get 'Working with Children' checks, which are free for people in organisations such as clubs, where no one gets paid.

 

My miniature railway club (an obvious place, where they are going to be lots of children!) was an early compulsory to members, adopter of the scheme,. But some clubs originally declined as, 'too much trouble' and 'we don't need that BS' Some clubs made WWC checks voluntary too.

 

One of the largest clubs in Victoria, suddenly changed their minds, when a visitor pointed out that one of the club members, was on the child sex offenders list! Now all their members MUST have one.

 

So yes, do something about it, as it protects your members, as well as members of the public.

 

One of our members was claimed to be a risk to children, but we knew that the member concerned, had just got a renewal done and also going through a messy divorce, so it wasn't hard to find out that the claimant, was unsurprisingly, the other half. Google has it's uses!

[Oldddudders]

I believe all skoolteachers, and most skool admin staff, in the UK now have something called DBS checks. These seem to involve police clearance. There is also an Enhanced DBS. I suspect clubs and societies where minors are involved may be required to have a person cleared by this method. Sherry does chaperoning for her theatre group if minors are involved, as she still holds DBS clearance from her teaching days, although it has had to be renewed. It literally involves accompanying the minor to and from the loo, for example, to ensure he/she is alone in that place. Local authorities have the right to inspect arrangements, unannounced. Each minor has to be signed in and out by a guardian - saying mum's in the car outside isn't good enough - and records of breaks and time on stage must be kept, for inspection if required. 

 

It all sounds like a sledgehammer to crack a nut stuff. Until you hear that another theatre company not far away from Sherry's discovered a hidden camera in the girls' dressing room. Your son and daughter do need protection. 

[The Johnster]

An ex gig organiser for the community samba band I play for turned out later to have form in this respect, which despite having a policy we were unaware of at the time.  Policy is in the complex process of being reviewed.  We have traditionally worked to the principle that minors are supervised by parents/guardians at all times, but as the said parents/guardians were unaware of this character’s ‘proclivities’ at the time and nothing ‘flagged them up’, that looks like inadequate protection in hindsight.  The man had established himself on the band committee and been given a high profile role in which he was very effective and respected; he successfully fooled us!

 

He is no longer associated with us, that being difficult from the inside of one of Her Majesty’s well appointed luxury hotels...

 

Those who behave in this way (the site won’t allow use of the P word) do not look or behave in the way you think they do and there was nothing ‘odd’ or ‘creepy’ about this person.  They are by nature clever, manipulative, and naturally talented dissemblers; this is an unpleasant issue that most people are not comfortable dealing with and the perps exploit this.  Your club needs to protect itself, it’s members, and any minors involved with it robustly and in accordance with guidelines, but there are templates and advice out there.  

Edited October 12, 2019 by The Johnster

[BoD]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

 

 

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/templates/example-safeguarding-policy-statement/

It seems that a plethora of other documents are also needed,  to be read in conjunction with the safeguarding policy.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

26 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

... this is an unpleasant issue that most people are not comfortable dealing with...

It's frankly horrible. I'll be due for a renewal of my enhanced DBS check about this time next year, and some of the case history that is reviewed is distressing. The worst of it is quite simply the underlying message of 'trust no one'.

 

It's not just minors who are in scope, but also anyone deemed 'vulnerable'. With the latter group it is doubly difficult, many are quite properly not identifiable. No one has yet satisfactorily explained to me how the protections properly employed to keep minors secure can in any way be extended reliably to the 'vulnerable adult' group, given this situation.

[Kris]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I believe all skoolteachers, and most skool admin staff, in the UK now have something called DBS checks. These seem to involve police clearance.

 

These checks show any convictions and many charges that may have been brought against an individual. Whilst you can have a transferable DBS (one that can be used in many locations), this has to be applied for by the individual within a couple of weeks of the original DBS being applied for. 

 

Anyone in a club who has regular contact (in my school, we consider this to be 3-4 times in 3 months) with vulnerable individuals should have a DBS check carried out on them. 

 

DBS checks are only as good as the time that they were carried out. 

 

 

[PenrithBeacon]

When I did cricket umpiring I had to have the (then) CRB check done once every year, the cricketers themselves didn't. Quite frankly I gave up umpiring because I was very much aware that I and all other umpires were being constantly watched for inappropriate behaviour particularly after two of us on the panel were suspended and barred from standing because it became clear that they liked little boys too much.

 

Although I fully approve of safeguarding, I am a father and grandfather after all, I do feel that it's all too easy to create an atmosphere of suspicion in the closed environment of a club and I have, reluctantly, come to the conclusion that perhaps it's better to introduce children to adult hobbies and activities after school age.

 

Not nice I know, but it's not only children who have to be considered.

 

Regards

[durham light infantry]

17 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

When I did cricket umpiring I had to have the (then) CRB check done once every year, the cricketers themselves didn't. Quite frankly I gave up umpiring because I was very much aware that I and all other umpires were being constantly watched for inappropriate behaviour particularly after two of us on the panel were suspended and barred from standing because it became clear that they liked little boys too much.

 

Although I fully approve of safeguarding, I am a father and grandfather after all, I do feel that it's all too easy to create an atmosphere of suspicion in the closed environment of a club and I have, reluctantly, come to the conclusion that perhaps it's better to introduce children to adult hobbies and activities after school age.

 

Not nice I know, but it's not only children who have to be considered.

 

Regards

 

I disagree. Whilst you may find it onerous or distateful to have the finger pointed at you, the modern world harbours many dangers. It is far better to be proved to be innocent and scrutinised regularly, than to allow any chance of a misdeed being done which can ruin a life forever.

 

You are not creating an atmosphere of suspicion by checking, you are shining a light on the shadows where dark thoughts turn into dark deeds.

 

Mike (enhanced dbs, working in the care sector with safeguarded adults)

[PenrithBeacon]

6 hours ago, durham light infantry said:

 

I disagree. Whilst you may find it onerous or distateful to have the finger pointed at you, the modern world harbours many dangers. It is far better to be proved to be innocent and scrutinised regularly, than to allow any chance of a misdeed being done which can ruin a life forever.

 

You are not creating an atmosphere of suspicion by checking, you are shining a light on the shadows where dark thoughts turn into dark deeds.

 

Mike (enhanced dbs, working in the care sector with safeguarded adults)

The problem here is, in part, that if you gather lots of children together then they act as a magnet for those who will do them harm. Amateurs in clubs and societies, although well meaning, simply don't have the skills and experience to deal with the issues and problems that arise. It's best left to trained and experienced professionals.

 

The documentation alone is a serious issue for clubs and societies implementation of it is a nightmare.

 

Regards

[DaveF]

 

In my professional life I had to check that people we employed did have an enhanced DBS check.

 

However I encountered one problem - someone who had passed the check but  was later accused (and convicted) of inappropriate behaviour.

 

So always bear in mind that the check really weeds out only those who have been convicted or at least suspected of issues with vulnerable people and children.

 

You always have to remain vigilant, people are not always all they seem to be.

 

David

Edited October 13, 2019 by DaveF

[TomJ]

The risk is not really of someone harming children on the premises, at a club night. The real risk is of individuals using access to children to gain their trust and grooming them. Sadly this can happen even if parents are on site, if say they are sat in the kitchen with a coffee and book whilst the children are modelling. 
 

It’s not a case of being suspicious of every single adult in a model club but instead being aware that some horrible people will take advantage of any opportunity such as this. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

On 12/10/2019 at 16:39, Oldddudders said:

Sherry does chaperoning for her theatre group if minors are involved, as she still holds DBS clearance from her teaching days, although it has had to be renewed. It literally involves accompanying the minor to and from the loo, for example, to ensure he/she is alone in that place. Local authorities have the right to inspect arrangements, unannounced. Each minor has to be signed in and out by a guardian - saying mum's in the car outside isn't good enough - and records of breaks and time on stage must be kept, for inspection if required. 

 

We've been through all this in my drama group, having gone from being run by members of the older generation ("we don't need to bother with any of that rubbish" was the general attitude), finding out there's a load of stuff we're supposed to be doing, to getting (hopefully) fully compliant with it all over the course of about 3 years.  

 

The chaperoning thing is theatre specific, as there's a massive amount of legislation around kids on stage, both professional and amateur, and sits alongside the other rules around making sure that (some) of the volunteers are DBS checked etc. Luckily there's an umbrella group for Amdram groups (Called NODA) who can help with this, including doing DBS checks. 

 

If anyone wants to take a look, our documentation is here: http://www.lovelacetheatregroup.co.uk/documents.html. Don't take any of it as Gospel, and the stuff around chaperones is theatre specific, but it might help point people in the right direction. 

 

3 hours ago, TomJ said:

The risk is not really of someone harming children on the premises, at a club night. The real risk is of individuals using access to children to gain their trust and grooming them. Sadly this can happen even if parents are on site, if say they are sat in the kitchen with a coffee and book whilst the children are modelling. 

 

Conversely, the children might trust your adult members for the right reasons (because they are decent people), and then tell them about bad stuff that is happening to them elsewhere. Part of the safeguarding policy is about how your organisation handles those concerns and passes them on to the authorities.  

[Ouroborus]

Getting back on topic and regards what was raised, a start point should be to consider 'what is the risk' and 'how can this risk be lessoned.'

 

Safeguarding applies not just to children but also to vulnerable adults.   This also opens up another can of worms about the vulnerabilities that adults may suffer.  In the context of this, you'd want to look at emotional, physical and perhaps sexual abuse.

 

If you want to apply a policy, a Google search will be enough.  Don't forget to change the names or otherwise you'll have a policy that makes no sense.  If you have time, if suggest that you look into it more deeply and find yourself an accredited training course.   Regards DBS checks I'd suggest that they are only really necessary if the person is likely to be on their own with children or vulnerable adults.  Banning under 16's without an adult with them is a way around this and I think would give you a good defence against having a DBS check, which, as has been pointed out, only reveal that you haven't been caught....  yet. 

 

DBS checks don't expire.  This misunderstanding has come about through (usually) public sector employees being told they need to be renewed every three years.  This is non sensical.  Also the idea that for each job or role you need a new DBS check is also ridiculous.   If someone within your MRC is a teacher, doctor, dentist, nurse, they will have had an enhanced DBS check carried out and assuming they're still in the same field of employment, I'd suggest this person would be a good person to make your child protection/safeguarding lead.

 

HTH.

[pete_mcfarlane]

10 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

DBS checks don't expire.  This misunderstanding has come about through (usually) public sector employees being told they need to be renewed every three years.  This is non sensical.  Also the idea that for each job or role you need a new DBS check is also ridiculous.   If someone within your MRC is a teacher, doctor, dentist, nurse, they will have had an enhanced DBS check carried out and assuming they're still in the same field of employment, I'd suggest this person would be a good person to make your child protection/safeguarding lead.

They don't expire, but are only a point in time check of a person's criminal record, so there's a risk of people offending after an initial clean check without you knowing about it. Rechecking every 3 years or when people change jobs, is a sensible way of managing this risk. 

 

 

If you want to check somebodies DBS status you can use the DBS Update Service (https://www.gov.uk/dbs-update-service). Don't rely on people verbally telling you that they've been checked through work. 

[jwealleans]

Ely club recently changed its over 18s only policy specifically to allow a very talented young modeller who lived locally to join.   We were able to do this because we had acquired a member who had experience in this area and was able to setup the policy and procedures required.  He is currently the Club secretary, so if you'd like to be put in touch with him please PM me. 

 

Do the CMRA offer any advice or guidelines?

[Ouroborus]

2 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

They don't expire, but are only a point in time check of a person's criminal record, so there's a risk of people offending after an initial clean check without you knowing about it. Rechecking every 3 years or when people change jobs, is a sensible way of managing this risk. 

 

 

If you want to check somebodies DBS status you can use the DBS Update Service (https://www.gov.uk/dbs-update-service). Don't rely on people verbally telling you that they've been checked through work. 

We had the Welsh Assembly misinterprept the law and have all primary care workers submit for new EDBS checks every three years.  It was news to us that these expired, but the inspectors insisted that they did.  Turns out the inspectors were wrong and this requirement has now been removed - I only need to have a EDBS check at point of registration/employment.   

 

If I'm convicted of any crime, 'even' drink driving, my regulator is notified and I may get suspended or expelled, invariably the former to start with.  I'd guess this is the same for teachers.  So the 'three years' rule for people who are *continuing in the same employment* is non-sensical - if you're still in employment without incident, then it follows you haven't been convicted.  A new EDBS check only  makes sense to people starting new employment/role and even then, common sense should be applied - a part time dental hygienist shouldn't need a EDBS check for EVERY practice she works in.

If you quoted the rest of my post, I stressed the importance of utilsing someone with an enhanced DBS check AND in the same continuous employment.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Ouroborus

[pete_mcfarlane]

36 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

If I'm convicted of any crime, 'even' drink driving, my regulator is notified and I may get suspended or expelled, invariably the former to start with.  I'd guess this is the same for teachers.  So the 'three years' rule for people who are *continuing in the same employment* is non-sensical - if you're still in employment without incident, then it follows you haven't been convicted.  A new EDBS check only  makes sense to people starting new employment/role and even then, common sense should be applied - a part time dental hygienist shouldn't need a EDBS check for EVERY practice she works in.

 

That might be true in your industry, but it doesn't happen in others (and club or society won't get notified, which is what we're worrying about here).  

[knitpick]

In the club I attend, the policy is that all vulnerable members must be accompanied by a suitable carer / guardian / parent. 

 

Otherwise you need to ensure that the club has enough cleared and trained members to ensure that at least one of them is present at all meetings.  Also, in the absence of this rule, there is the issue that at least one responsible club member must ensure that the vulnerable / junior member is collected safely.  Another issue would be that the club would need to bear the cost of clearance checks - which I understand are time limited   You would also need to have a process to deal with suspect behaviour including when to involve the Police.  Larger organisations would normally have a nominated safeguarding contact to undertake initial checks and reporting to the Police.

[pete_mcfarlane]

52 minutes ago, knitpick said:

Another issue would be that the club would need to bear the cost of clearance checks - which I understand are time limited.

 

As a club you should be able to get the checks done for a nominal cost, something like £10-20 per person, plus a bit of time to administer.  I think it cost us £10 each to do about 5 or 6 people, and about 4-5 hours of time to get the up and running with the DBS check service.

[cliff park]

Be aware that it is all too easy to over-react. This is not to diminish the risk or the problem, but think carefully about the circumstances. Are minors (or other vulnerable people) alone with individual members for any length of time or on repeated occasions ? In other words is there an opportunity for grooming ? Giving lifts is a potential problem area. If you can ensure that minors are always with a group, peers or adults, there should be no need for DBS checks. In other words planning and management can obviate the need for them in a club environment. 

[Jonboy]

One other area to be careful of is that a dbs check tells the original applying organisation that an offence was committed, and it is up to them to assess the risk to their members, users, customers or visitors (or was last time I was involved with them). Relying on them working for another organisation, per a suggestion above might not give you the information required.