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Bachmann 2020 Range

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4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Sigh...

 

Really? Whats the harm in guessing what is likely when they announce the range, even if some announcements are spread over the year. 

Edited by The Black Hat
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On 08/01/2020 at 16:31, Edge said:

As a vague hope, I’m hoping that some more 009 stuff is announced - lord knows what exactly, although logic would dictate that it is Talyllyn based because of the Thomas link.

I believe that it is down in Bachmann's contract with Mattel that their Thomas toolings cannot be used to produce non-Thomas products. Apparently noises were made after large numbers of Skarloeys were imported into the UK (and you'll note that neither Rheneas or Rusty have details not present on their CGI models...).

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1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

The HTA and HYA/IIA isn't a simple re-livery, re-bogie and buffers. They have different end slope angles. 

Yet they have done both the HTA and HYA in the Farish range, which does appear to be two different body mouldings representing the two different angles

 

 

That's not a bad shout there Mick, given the different aggregate uses these HTA hoppers are now seeing. And I'm surprised the HYA & IIA haven't made it up to the OO range yet given how widespread they were. You've also got more of a livery range choice from those with GBRf, Fastline & hybrid versions. 

 

Although it's said upthread that we may be unlikely to see the return for a while of high detailed wagons such as the JJA Autoballaster, could it be time for something a little more simpler while still retaining that large wagon wow factor, i.e the KSA Rover Cube?  

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1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Really? Whats the harm in guessing what is likely when they announce the range, even if some announcements are spread over the year. 

 

Because you haven't bothered to read what I have already posted (twice) on preceding pages.

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I don't know about anyone else, but knowing there's *not* going to be any substantial news from Bachmann next month, the sole reason I'm still coming back to this thread is just to see how many times Andy has to bash his head against the brick wall that is other people. 

 

Unfortunately for him, it has not disappointed.

 

tenor.gif

 

 

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8 hours ago, jukebox said:

I don't know about anyone else, but knowing there's *not* going to be any substantial news from Bachmann next month, the sole reason I'm still coming back to this thread is just to see how many times Andy has to bash his head against the brick wall that is other people. 

 

Unfortunately for him, it has not disappointed.

 

https://media.tenor.com/images/7eaa5a15f35116a808f47742814fb84a/tenor.gif

 

 

:banghead: now come on we all know that Andy Y's favoured past time is :banghead:it has to be to keep this community in check :drag:

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11 hours ago, jukebox said:

the brick wall that is other people. 

 

Brilliant!

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On 08/01/2020 at 14:42, Denbridge said:

Yet Hornby usually deliver within their quoted schedule. Sure, there are exeptions but we don't see them taking 5 years or more.

 

I'm pretty sure you'll find that the lead time from deciding to do a model and that model reaching the shelves is about the same, give or take a year or so, for all the main manufacturers. The difference is more about when in that process they decide to announce it.

 

Hornby's preference is to announce late, when the model is already at a stage where they can be showing off samples or, at least, 3D prints, so that it can all be rolled into a big annual reveal for that year's range. Bachmann in the past at least, tended to prefer to announce earlier, when it's just at the planning stage.

 

There are advantages either way. An early announcement minimises the risk that you'll be pre-empted by someone else doing the same model, or that your own model will directly compete with someone else's. Bachmann themselves got caught in exactly that position when their Blue Pullman effectively scuppered the production of a version by Heljan, commissioned by Olivia's Trains. An early announcement is more industry friendly, as it minimises the risk of duplication. But, it does result in long lead times from announcement to delivery, and runs the risk that an announced model may be cancelled.

 

A late announcement means that there are fewer risks of cancellations and significant delays, as most of the period vulnerable to those will have passed by the time the announcement is made. It's also more customer-friendly, as it means people aren't kept waiting for something for too long. And it's also better from a PR perspective, especially if, like Hornby, you prefer to do your announcements in a single annual event. The downside is that there's a much greater risk of duplication, and also a risk that your future plans may leak. Hornby are possibly big enough not to really care about that, and in some respects they've even been happy to release spoilers - the Terriers and Class 66s, for example. But Bachmann may be more cautious about investing too much into a model before gauging public reaction to it and ensuring that it isn't on anyone else's future plans.

 

Given Andy Y's comments earlier in this discussion, that Bachmann are beginning now to move towards a later announcement system, that is likely to mean less new stuff announced in the short term. That doesn't mean it isn't being worked on, more that there's a reset in their marketing of forthcoming products which will have an effect on the announcement schedule.

 

I do wonder a bit if that's related to their takeover of the Thomas franchise. While we modellers like to know things as far in advance as possible - just so that we've got something to endlessly discuss on the Internet when we really should be modelling! - retailers don't work on the basis of ifs, maybes and "it's ready when it's ready" announcements. They want firm commitments. They need to know now what they will be able to sell in December, they need to know this summer what will be available next year. Moving into the more general toy train market is a bit of a departure for Bachmann UK, so it's quite likely that it will have had an effect on other aspects of their business model as well.

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20 hours ago, Alan Oliver said:

How about a Network Rail DBSO.

 

Very likely as a few months ago I had one repainted & weathered into NR livery!

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12 hours ago, gismorail said:

 

Wishlisting.

 

The gift that keeps on giving.

 

(That and post-announcement "nothing in it for me" threads)

 

:good_mini:

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On a personal note, as far as loco’s and rolling stock are concerned, there isn’t much I need from any of the big players but it would be nice to see the JJA Autoballaster back and maybe the MXA “Lobster” or HYA/IIA wagons produced?

 

A Network Rail DBSO would be nice but probably unlikely but like others have said, I’d prefer it if Bachmann held back awhile so previous announcement’s can play catch up before tempting us with new goodies.

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I'd say Bachmann are being very pragmatic:  They look at things like The Wishlist and say "Can we cover that?"  Then, ,  they think:" Can we return a profit on it?" In situations like that, it can be very hard to  find that USP that every man and his monkey is searching for.  Todays generation with disposable income (that are 'into' model railways) certainly wouldn't be interested in a Sturrock Steam Tender, which would certainly interest me. The age demographic has moved on. Like many potential customers,  I exist in a narrowing market which continues at an exponential rate. 

 

A hard furrow for Bachmann; I wish them well. Dare I say it, but the 94xx might probably be the last Western-derived model from Bachmann, apart from re-runs.

 

Ian.

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I'd have thought that at some point they'd modify the 64xx tooling to produce the later 64xx and the 74xx.

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8 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I'd have thought that at some point they'd modify the 64xx tooling to produce the later 64xx and the 74xx.

I believe it is only the cab/bunker piece that needs a new tooling; the rest of the 64xx as produced already can be reused for later 64xx/74xx.  54xx is a different matter, not just bigger driving wheels. as the relationship between the boiler/tanks and splashers is quite different.  It looks at first sight as if the existing chassis can still be used for a 54xx, with the buffer beams prototypically mounted the other way up. but coupling mounting height is altered as well.  And we come back, as we always do with Bachmann's panniers, to the top feed question; AFAIK all 54xx and the early 64xx were built without topfeed boilers, but later 64xx and all 75xx were built with them.  Thereafter, as soon as locos begin to visit Swindon for main overhaul, boilers get swapped around and unless you've got provenanced dated photographic evidence it's next to impossible to determine whether or not any of them had top feeds or not at any given time more than about 7 years after their build dates.  

 

The same goes for 57xx/8750s, and it is in my view better to provide the loco without the top feed and associated plumbing, but Bachmann have persistently provided GW panniers with top feeds like it or not, presumably correct for the prototypes in the liveries featured at at lease some time, one hopes; at least nobody AFAIK has complained that any Bachmann RTR pannier is incorrect in this regard.  But it is easier to retrofit the top feed and pipes than it is to remove them.  I've done it on a 57xx but would not want to make a habit of it...

 

I think Tomparryharry is probably right in his gloomy assessment that the 94xx will be the last GW model for a while from blue box, and with the exception of the Manor which is a recurring theme on wishlists, I can't see Hornby or anyone else going for yet-to-be-announced items much more than to the extent new liveries or identities for existing GW locos either.  Unless somebody wants to go seriously into Period 2, the 16xx is probably the only significant class left and one is in the pipeline.  I'd rather like a Collett 31xx, and the no.4 boilered large prairies are a possibility though not IMHO a probability from the RTR players.  I'd not be surprised to see Hornby have a go at a decent 2721, mind; OTOH I wouldn't be surprised not to!

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While steam may decline in popularity, it is always going to remain a more popular era (just not the most popular) given the attraction of the moving parts, the operation potential(*), the layout feature potential.

 

As such I don't think judging the potential of the market based on the 2020 plans of either Hornby or Bachmann is wise - Bachmann is, based on hints (and occasional thumps on the head) from Andy Y in a transition period in how they announce new tooling with the result of nothing likely this year.  Hornby, while it was an ambitious program, was very much an anniversary program with certain unique items (Rocket, the O tinplate) taking up tooling budget and other wanted but still unique (APT) taking up a large chunk of tooling budget with the multiple items per model required.

 

And don't forget about Dapol, who appear to have a GWR preference for their steam offerings.

 

So I suspect 2021 may be a better indicator of the future of steam, or even just GWR steam, from the big 2 and whether we need to look at a smaller operation moving in to supply the market in a lower overhead (and hence perhaps more viable) way.

 

* - ironically in a way, the move to more accurately model the real railway and how it operates will end up working to steam / early diesel's advantage.  While I have nothing against the modern DMU railway, it doesn't offer much in the way of interesting operations to keep oneself amused with given the lack of shunting, switching motive power, etc...

Edited by mdvle

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22 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

… a Sturrock Steam Tender, which would certainly interest me.

 

An amazing beast. One of those ideas which (I believe) should have been foreseen as a failure without the need for hindsight. I’d love one but two swallows don’t make a summer. mdvle cites the attraction of the moving parts; Sturrock would score highly there.

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A slight point to remember, if you please. My earlier post was about Bachmann's progress. I haven't mentioned other manufacturers, because they do indeed have Western steam models in the pipeline. The first would be Hornby, because of their historical background, and Dapol, because there was a multitude of polite requests from modellers. My 'gloomy' predictions are hopefully not gloomy; far from it. I would put myself in Bachmann's rather hard place, where there is an uncertain market, a diminishing market, and all of those things to give them (Bachmann) the jitters. No,  I wish them well. 

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1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

A slight point to remember, if you please. My earlier post was about Bachmann's progress. I haven't mentioned other manufacturers, because they do indeed have Western steam models in the pipeline. The first would be Hornby, because of their historical background, and Dapol, because there was a multitude of polite requests from modellers. My 'gloomy' predictions are hopefully not gloomy; far from it. I would put myself in Bachmann's rather hard place, where there is an uncertain market, a diminishing market, and all of those things to give them (Bachmann) the jitters. No,  I wish them well. 

I wish them well too. By and large, their models are good and I appreciate their leading the market to produce better models. One more thing to give the folks at Bachmann the jitters must be the increasing number of players. I’m sure I’m not alone in having to choose from the vast range of stuff appearing on the market, leaving some desirables on the shelf.

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6 hours ago, mdvle said:

While steam may decline in popularity, it is always going to remain a more popular era (just not the most popular) given the attraction of the moving parts, the operation potential(*), the layout feature potential.

 

* - ironically in a way, the move to more accurately model the real railway and how it operates will end up working to steam / early diesel's advantage.  While I have nothing against the modern DMU railway, it doesn't offer much in the way of interesting operations to keep oneself amused with given the lack of shunting, switching motive power, etc...

 

Yep, my layout is based on the line somewhere between Brighton - Portsmouth 1937-46 ish. if I were to model that today it'd be mostly just Southern liveried 377s and 313s with the GWR 2-3 carriage thing that runs once a day up to Bristol and the occasional Victoria - Littlehampton Thames Link. That's it. I can't think of anything more dull. Modelling the line in the 30s/40s allows for all sorts of southern locos pulling all sorts of mismatched Southern carriages and goods and even an amalgamation of GWR carriages hauled by a Southern loco for the Brighton-Cardiff services. It is of course hard to find photo documentation of the war years but I imagine that saw some interesting traffic along the coast. 

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On 11/01/2020 at 10:25, tomparryharry said:

I'd say Bachmann are being very pragmatic:  They look at things like The Wishlist and say "Can we cover that?"  Then, ,  they think:" Can we return a profit on it?" In situations like that, it can be very hard to  find that USP that every man and his monkey is searching for.  Todays generation with disposable income (that are 'into' model railways) certainly wouldn't be interested in a Sturrock Steam Tender, which would certainly interest me. The age demographic has moved on. Like many potential customers,  I exist in a narrowing market which continues at an exponential rate. 

 

A hard furrow for Bachmann; I wish them well. Dare I say it, but the 94xx might probably be the last Western-derived model from Bachmann, apart from re-runs.

 

Ian.

I hope you are wrong, but see your point. It would be a shame if Bachmann didn't capitalise on the tooling for the Earl/Dukedog. Both a Duke and Bulldog would I'm sure, be very popular models.

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3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

An amazing beast. One of those ideas which (I believe) should have been foreseen as a failure without the need for hindsight. I’d love one but two swallows don’t make a summer. mdvle cites the attraction of the moving parts; Sturrock would score highly there.

There is a very nice 5"gauge live steam on currently for sale on the steam workshop website, should you wish to up your game :)

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I just want an update on the Caley 812 . I note that in Rails latest adverts in Hornby Mag and Railway Modeller it’s not even mentioned!  Other commissions are , the Deltic, Terrier, 92,D Class , electric Autocar and class 45 But not a mention of the Caley 812. Got me wondering if the lack of progress means this no longer a Rails commission.  So waiting for 5th Feb with interest .

Edited by Legend
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47 minutes ago, Legend said:

I just want an update on the Caley 812 . I note that in Rails latest adverts in Hornby Mag and Railway Modeller it’s not even mentioned!  Other commissions are , the Deltic, Terrier, 92,D Class , electric Autocar and class 45 But not a mention of the Caley 812. Got me wondering if the lack of progress means this no longer a Rails commission.  So waiting for 5th Feb with interest .

Bachmann Times gives a quarterly update on the progress of new tooling. Progress is recorded under eight headings. The Caley 812 (“for Rails of Sheffield”) is in stage 3: the Tool Room. The previous Bachmann Times showed it as in stage 2, so there is progress; just don’t expect it soon. The next stage is “engineering samples”, by which time you should see something of interest.

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1 hour ago, Legend said:

I just want an update on the Caley 812 . I note that in Rails latest adverts in Hornby Mag and Railway Modeller it’s not even mentioned!  Other commissions are , the Deltic, Terrier, 92,D Class , electric Autocar and class 45 But not a mention of the Caley 812. Got me wondering if the lack of progress means this no longer a Rails commission.  So waiting for 5th Feb with interest .

 

25 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Bachmann Times gives a quarterly update on the progress of new tooling. Progress is recorded under eight headings. The Caley 812 (“for Rails of Sheffield”) is in stage 3: the Tool Room. The previous Bachmann Times showed it as in stage 2, so there is progress; just don’t expect it soon. The next stage is “engineering samples”, by which time you should see something of interest.

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere a month or so ago that Rails of Sheffield hoped to have an Engineering Prototype (EP) on display at their stand at Model Rail Scotland at the end of February 2020 and that the production models should be in the hands of those who have ordered them towards the end of this year. 

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