New Hornby Rocket

[adb968008]

they seem to have found their price around the £300-315 mark.

 

I suspect if it wasn't for R3810 coming, it could well have been higher.

 

Whilst some are lamenting missing R3809, they might do well to secure an R3810 as it is sold out at many, but not yet all, places.

 

I’d imagine it too could end up carrying, an albeit lesser, premium.

 

We have in the past seen Hornby temptations to making too many, in which everyone, including Hornby end up with armfuls of them washing around discount aisles for years. I think with 2 runs they've got it right.. sell outs and premiums are better stories than discounts and unsold stock, even if it frustrates some.

 

if they now rested the tooling until 2025, (S&D 200 anniversary), they will probably find their place again at a premium, but if they run discounts now, they could still be on shelves at discount in 2025, defying inflation.. much like the k1, j50 and 71.

 

If this is the modus operandi for the future (W1 etc, but also more mundane classes like the 78000 to sell out at, close to, or just after release then its a much more secure route)...this is the successful route Bachmann have navigated with Modern image class 37/47’s, and newer players like Accurascale, Revolution.

Edited March 1, 2020 by adb968008

[Butler Henderson]

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 17:22, Robin Brasher said:

This morning at 07:00 on channel 5 Stephen the 'Rocket' engine was taking people for a tour round the castle in open light blue coaches in Thomas the Tank Engine. Later the 'Rocket' hauled some five plank goods wagons. It was a good model with a yellow barrel in the tender but it had buffers, a face and a headlamp.

The replica does have a bufferbeam and bufferheads on its tender quite evident in this youtube video (1 minute in)

I'm wondering if a steel strip could be positioned at the back of the underside of the tender with the bufferbeam being  a magnet to portray the replica, as opposed to gluing a bufferbeam on, aside from repainting or replacing the barrel and darkening the motion of a R3810 as a I presume anyone with a R3809 would want to keep it mint. 

[Hroth]

7 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

The cynic in me wonders how many shops ordered the limited edition Rocket for themselves to profit from.  I did not go searching for this it just appeared on my eBay screen.  I see it personally as bad form as a shop has an advantage over a customer in securing a limited release model.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hornby-R3809-Stephensons-Rocket-Train-Pack-Centenary-Year-Limited-Edition-1963/392707734004?epid=2308112932&hash=item5b6f3479f4:g:mAgAAOSwcpVeWoK7

 

 

Jadlam prices are all over the place, sometimes there are eyewatering bargains, sometimes eyeopening overpricings.  I once got a Hornby N15, DCC fitted, for (far) less than the DC version.  The main point to remember is that you don't have to buy!

 

One thing I did note is that your link is to the Australian ebay site.  If you convert £329 to AU dollars, it comes out as $167, which is pretty close to the real price!  Perhaps whoever put it up got a bit confused?  At least they're not charging postage...

 

BuggerBuggerBugger....

See what I mean about the confusion?

 

What I meant to say was that if someone converted the UK price to Australian dollars, and got the prices back to front, then posted the Australian dollar price as the UK pound price, which they then posted on the Australian ebay site converted to Australian dollars...   What I was trying to say that if you treat the £ 329 as $329 and convert that back to pounds, then it ends up as £167 which isn't far adrift of the Hornby price, cut down by the "normal" discount which several retailers applied before realising that Rocket would sell like hot cakes and put their prices back up to the Hornby level!

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Hroth
I know what I meant, but it came out wrong! Thanks to Craigw for pointing out the problem...

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

 If you convert £329 to AU dollars, it comes out as $167, which is pretty close to the real price!  Perhaps whoever put it up got a bit confused? 

 

 

Really ????? Who's confused here ?

 

John Isherwood.

[Craigw]

10 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Jadlam prices are all over the place, sometimes there are eyewatering bargains, sometimes eyeopening overpricings.  I once got a Hornby N15, DCC fitted, for (far) less than the DC version.  The main point to remember is that you don't have to buy!

 

One thing I did note is that your link is to the Australian ebay site.  If you convert £329 to AU dollars, it comes out as $167, which is pretty close to the real price!  Perhaps whoever put it up got a bit confused?  At least they're not charging postage...

 

 

 

In the Australia that I live in, 329 GBP comes to $646 or thereabouts. I suspect you have made a mistake somewhere!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Edwardian]

54 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

The replica does have a bufferbeam and bufferheads on its tender quite evident in this youtube video (1 minute in)

I'm wondering if a steel strip could be positioned at the back of the underside of the tender with the bufferbeam being  a magnet to portray the replica, as opposed to gluing a bufferbeam on, aside from repainting or replacing the barrel and darkening the motion of a R3810 as a I presume anyone with a R3809 would want to keep it mint. 

 

 

The model does not have rear buffers, which makes it wholly unsuitable for pulling the coaches, though this would seem to be entirely correct.

 

 

It's worth bearing in mind the reasons for this, that the release essentially reflects 1930s reconstructions, and that:

 

- The Rocket replicas and Hornby model depicts her 1829 Rainhill Trials appearance

 

- The earliest we are likely to have seen these First Class coaches is following the opening in 1830 and you can see them depicted by Ackermann in 1831.

 

 

- By this time, Rocket looked rather different. She had a conventional-looking smokebox, motion mounted at a lower angle and a new tender, complete with buffers. 

 

 

- For completeness, I'll add that the appearance of the replica coaches is to some extent conjectural, and does not quite match the details imperfectly shown in Ackermann and Austen's contemporary illustrations, so, again, the Hornby models should be understood as reproductions of replica coaches rather than of the historic L&M coaches.

 

So, in order for a replica 1829 Rocket to haul its replica 1830 stock, it presumably needs a non-historical buffer beam, which I suppose is what you have in your video. 

 

Personally, however, I would be happy to use the coaches on a layout as representations of 1830s L&M stock, with some more appropriate L&M motive power in due course (probably just as well given the Hornby Rocket I've bought doesn't actually work, Grrrr!).

 

In the meantime, I reflect that, what I have actually bought are reasonably accurate models of a 1930s train that replicated an 1829 locomotive and, probably imperfectly, parts of an 1830s train! 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Edwardian
Further picture

[Widnes Model Centre]

 

Just checking out allocation of R3809 and my confirmation email shows my final allocation on the 20th January 2020.  The Centenary products are the only ones with a specific limit. I cannot see any restriction on R3810. So there should be plenty of model shops with them available.

 

Prices in certain model shops? We are often asked if we can price match certain retailers. Nobody asked us to price match when we were selling a LE  Airfix kit, at £27.99, one shop mentioned here was giving customers free post but charging £59.99 for the same item.  As georgeconna discovered, Marc’s Models had one in stock. We also had a walk in customer who spotted R3809 on our shelves. One happy customer.  In other words if you are lucky to have a LMS, check them out.

 

Rocket is delicate, it’s a scale model.  I model in N Scale and the wiring can be so fine that you could mistake a wire for an errant eye lash. Putting crew in a loco requires the eyesight of an Eagle and the hand of a bomb disposal expert. 

 

Packaging, we have clam shell, foam, egg box and probably more that l have missed out all using various methods of trying to help get your model to you intact. Then they put their faith in a courier. I had a damaged loco returned by the manufacturer and then dropped from chest height by the courier. It had to go back for repair again.

 

lf only Rocket had been made larger in the first place. Then again, would he have even dreamed that someone would want a model of it in 1/76 scale?

 

[Steamport Southport]

Mine is perfect.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

8 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Mine is perfect.

 

 

 

 

Jason

dont worry,

 

Show us a picture, on here, someone will find a flaw in it for you.

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

dont worry,

 

Show us a picture, on here, someone will find a flaw in it for you.

 

 

I don't have a camera or phone.

 

Well I do, but the camera is 35mm film and the phone is attached to the wall in the hall...

 

 

 

 

Jason

[PaulRhB]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

- The earliest we are likely to have seen these First Class coaches is following the opening in 1830 and you can see them depicted by Ackermann in 1831.

 

 

- By this time, Rocket looked rather different. She had a conventional-looking smokebox, motion mounted at a lower angle and a new tender, complete with buffers. 

 

 

-

The exact dates for the modification to lowered cylinders is not certain and an engraving in Richard Gibbons book shows it on the completed section pre-opening ceremony still in original form. Rocket had several accidents and there’s no full record of what’s done at each repair. The engraving is the best clue it was still original at the opening and the other ones from the opening feature Northumbrian and the improved Rocket1.1’s with lowered cylinders but nothing conclusive on Rocket itself. Rocket had another accident just post the opening so it might be that one that lead to the revision   As there is nothing on record it’s going to be open to those who love to tell you it’s wrong if you model it in 1830 but you can be sure they don’t really know!  
 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

The dates for the modification to lowered cylinders is not certain and an engraving in Richard Gibbons book shows it on the completed section pre-opening ceremony still in original form. Rocket had several accidents and there’s no record of what’s done at each repair. The engraving is the best clue it was still original at the opening and the other ones from the opening feature Northumbrian and the improved Rocket1.1’s with lowered cylinders but nothing conclusive on Rocket itself. Rocket had another accident just post the opening so it might be that one that lead to the revision   As there is nothing on record it’s going to be open to those who love to tell you it’s wrong if you model it in 1830 but you can be sure they don’t really know!  
 

 

 

I posted the Nasmyth sketch, which, I have read was drawn from life and contemporary with the 1830 opening.  But, if you have more precise information concerning the date of the sketch and the circumstances of its execution, I'd be happy to learn it. 

 

Some modification would have to have been made to Rocket by opening if she were to pull anything!

 

Certainly, by the time of the Ackerman prints (published 1831), improved Rocket types like Northumbrian and North Star are evident. 

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, sandwich station said:

I think it's bad form for a business to sell a brand new one for way above the recommended price by Hornby, however, if it is second hand then they can charge what they like.

Easy fix is just to vote with our wallets........

[The Stationmaster]

8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I posted the Nasmyth sketch, which, I have read was drawn from life and contemporary with the 1830 opening.  But, if you have more precise information concerning the date of the sketch and the circumstances of its execution, I'd be happy to learn it. 

 

Some modification would have to have been made to Rocket by opening if she were to pull anything!

 

Certainly, by the time of the Ackerman prints (published 1831), improved Rocket types like Northumbrian and North Star are evident. 

As a slight aside the 'Ackerman' prints were published by Ackerman.  The one I have (' A Train of Waggons With Goods etc') which shows two goods trains was drawn by J.Shaw of Liverpool and published by Ackerman in November 1831.   As it is almost certainly an original it is somewhat faded but extremely nicely framed and sits above the living room mantelpiece.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't have a camera

 

Well I do, but the camera is 35mm film

 

 

 

 

Jason

S’ok........we’ll wait 

[mckinneyc]

I had mine running today but waiting on a decoder to bring her in line with the rest of my collection

 

 

[PaulRhB]

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I posted the Nasmyth sketch, which, I have read was drawn from life and contemporary with the 1830 opening.  But, if you have more precise information concerning the date of the sketch and the circumstances of its execution, I'd be happy to learn it. 

 

Some modification would have to have been made to Rocket by opening if she were to pull anything!

 

Certainly, by the time of the Ackerman prints (published 1831), improved Rocket types like Northumbrian and North Star are evident. 

Yes they know drawgear was added but in the NRM book on the technical breakdown they say they cannot be certain when each modification was actually done. As the locos  of the Rocket class (mk2’s) were around and no nameplate is shown on the sketch it’s not even certain the sketch is The Rocket or a Rocket class loco And even if it’s the opening day or around the date. They studied engravings and letters but nothing found so far definitively says anything about what condition she was in on opening day. 
It’s going to be conjecture either way with the loco although the contemporary engravings do suggest the coaches may indeed have had no lights but as the locos with known dimensions are deformed in most pictures I think the coaches may well be similar approximations. 
Really you could argue it in circles either way as there’s no proof in the official record so if you want to say it’s 1830 and chop off the top lamps who’s to say you’re incorrect except with the same level of opinion there is for and against. Much better to concede it’s close to the likely condition and get the overall scene right with track and architectural features in the right style too. 
 

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't have a camera or phone.

 

Well I do, but the camera is 35mm film and the phone is attached to the wall in the hall...

 

 

 

 

Jason

Get youself a film, takes some pictures and send it to Photo Express and get them to put it on a CD Rom.

[AchimK]

I got mine (3809) last Monday but it showed two out of box faults.

1. Loose power wire between loco and tender so it wouldn't run at all.

2. Missing front axle housing screw.

 

Anyone else with quality problems?

Hornby are very good about repair so far - free (return as it should be), let's see how long it will take them to get it back to me.

[Coppercap]

13 minutes ago, AchimK said:

I got mine (3809) last Monday but it showed two out of box faults.

1. Loose power wire between loco and tender so it wouldn't run at all.

2. Missing front axle housing screw. 

 

Anyone else with quality problems?

Hornby are very good about repair so far - free (return as it should be), let's see how long it will take them to get it back to me.

 

Same here - that was the only thing I couldn't put right myself (as per my previous post). Maybe they started to run out of said screws, and started to fit only three per loco?   The thread on mine isn't stripped, so I know it can't simply have fallen out.

[WisTramwayMan]

23 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

With a measured response like that, you just have to be British.

 

Julian

 

Indeed I am. Having dealt with collection quality model cars / trains / planes over many years the first thing I normally do when confronted with a new casting I've not seen before is try to work out where it is safe to hold it and extract it from the packaging without damaging or, worse, destroying it. One thing I have said for a long time is that with delicate models the manufacturer should put a slip in the top of the box advising the buyer of the best way of extracting it without damage. Probably one of worst I've had to date, surprisingly given the overall size and 1:72 scale, was a Corgi ASV Wellington many years ago - absolutely festooned with radar aerials just where you'd normally grip it to extract it from the packaging, and oh gawd where do I hold that to extract it safely ? These days, with model railways, my preference is to handle diesels - by and large they've got nice flat sides (avoiding any etched parts / windows) and haven't got delicate wires between loco and tender to look out for (or in the case of the Heljan Garratt, magnets holding the drive units each end, where the magnets could do with being a tad stronger...).

 

But the new Rocket appears to trump all of these. It'd be interesting to know what percentage of original sales are returned for rectification (or in a few cases for a refund) as faulty. Not that we'll ever know. Pity they couldn't have used the little white plug for the tender connection; much as I hate it, it would appear to be better, from what people are saying, than how it's been done here.

[Paperlad]

I tried to run mine today and it seems to be busted! No decoder fitted yet, so I was trying it on DC, the driving wheels went round about a quarter turn and then stopped. If I apply power now the motor buzzes but there is no movement, which suggests that somfink is jammed up. I’ll have a proper look tomorrow and see if it’s easily rectified.

[PaulRhB]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

-

Now I’m home here’s my sources. The exact dates aren’t known but the months are given so with the people involved and the NRM it’s probably the most authoritative source for dating. 
In Richard Gibbon’s NRM book ‘Stephenson’s Rocket and the Rainhill Trials’ on p37 a coloured version of this appears and  he caption says “A painting that purports to show Rocket . . . . Examination shows that this is in fact Northumbrian . . .”

Further in Bailey & Glithero’s ‘The Engineering and history of Rocket’ On p 3 it lists October 1830, 1 month after opening, as fitting the dome and a new firebox amongst other internal modifications. 
It further says that the cylinders were lowered in January 1831 after a derailment at Olive Mount Cutting. The buffer beam was added to the front, frame stiffening was also added at that repair as they broke the frame trying to straighten it. 
 

I knew the exact dates weren’t there but I’d forgotten it gave the months!

Edited March 1, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Matt35027]

Mine arrived from Hattons on Friday, runs very nicely even over all my insul-frog points. But the carriage 'Times' is missing a buffer, not loose in the box, just missing entirely! Do we know if Hornby will be offering spare parts?

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The model does not have rear buffers, which makes it wholly unsuitable for pulling the coaches, though this would seem to be entirely correct.

 

It's worth bearing in mind the reasons for this, that the release essentially reflects 1930s reconstructions, and that:

 

- The Rocket replicas and Hornby model depicts her 1829 Rainhill Trials appearance

 

...

 

Personally, however, I would be happy to use the coaches on a layout as representations of 1830s L&M stock, with some more appropriate L&M motive power in due course (probably just as well given the Hornby Rocket I've bought doesn't actually work, Grrrr!).

 

 

The Hornby carriages appear to be excellent models of the 1930 replica carriages. All the 1930s photos and film clips I've seen show these carriages being hauled by Lion. They don't appear in conjunction with the 1929 Rocket replica and I think only start to be seen again in use with the 1979 Rocket replica. At the Rainhill Trials 150th anniversary re-enactment, the replica Rocket has a stout-looking yellow-painted buffer beam attached to the back of the tender, as did the Sans Pareil replica.