New Hornby Rocket

[James3353]

I rang Hornby last week as I had two damaged coaches. They said they had no spare sets , individual items or parts.

They will probably have lots of returned sets in a few days time to cannibalise !

[maico]

It seems all the tender wires in the Rocket being black isn't that unusual. This is my 2014 Trix German P10. The tender has 4 axle pickups, decoder, speaker and rear LEDS and is joined to the loco with 6 identical black wires...no colour coding

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by maico

[Markwj]

Does anyone know which decoder will fit ,had a lais DCC one but way too big

thanks in advance

mark

[GWR-fan]

13 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

The cynic in me wonders how many shops ordered the limited edition Rocket for themselves to profit from.  I did not go searching for this it just appeared on my eBay screen.  I see it personally as bad form as a shop has an advantage over a customer in securing a limited release model.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hornby-R3809-Stephensons-Rocket-Train-Pack-Centenary-Year-Limited-Edition-1963/392707734004?epid=2308112932&hash=item5b6f3479f4:g:mAgAAOSwcpVeWoK7

 

 

I fully understand the need for a store to sell items and am referring to any store selling these off on an online auction site.  If I were a customer of a store who was unable to fill my order from the store's allocation and saw the same store selling their stock online to maximise profits then I would surely look elsewhere in future with my purchasing power.  A store was allocated sets apparently based on their selling record of Hornby products.  I do wonder how many stores chose to use their allocation to sell on online auction sites rather than satisfy their personal customers instore?    How many personal shoppers were denied a sale from stores that chose to sell their allocation to online auction sites?  Will this become a distinct possibility for future sales where stores see their allocation as a chance to maximise sales return by selling on auction sites rather than instore sales.  Box shifters might possibly be thinking of all the lost return selling their stock to personal shoppers when the limited market guaranteed them a sale well above recommended retail.  Big stores know that their customer base is fickle and the customer will only show loyalty to price and not the store.  Many customers will shift allegiance to a store that offers a price  barely a few pence lower in price relative to another store.  If there is no customer loyalty to a store then I suppose why should a store show any loyalty back to the customer? 

 

The "Manston" debacle several years ago (six years ago apparently, how time flies) should have taught Hornby a few lessons in how to distribute very limited release items.  Will future limited release sales become a lottery as in reality this is the only way to morally satisfy the customers who want an item?  Customers would express their interest in a new model through their chosen store.   All expressions would be forwarded to Hornby before a chosen cutoff date.  Successful customers would then be selected randomly and the item sent to the store that the customer placed his order.  This way the store still receives his retail markup.  If a successful customer then chose to sell his purchase online then that is his prerogative.  Every customer would be given an even chance to purchase and store's insider knowledge would be nullified.  I see this as a fair method.  I do wonder how many items in a store's allocation were already "sold" before Hornby officially "opened" its order books. 

[Butler Henderson]

40 minutes ago, Markwj said:

Does anyone know which decoder will fit ,had a lais DCC one but way too big

thanks in advance

mark

Hornbys own CV challenged decoder fits the socket - no other decoder appears to have been found that fits. Back on page 25 Melmerby  posted links to a couple of Farnell connectors that result in a socket 180 degrees different to that supplied so allowing the use of a number of 6 pin decoders and it could be hoped that one of the dcc specialists offers an appropriate adaptor. An alternative could be to dispense with the socket and hard wire a decoder.

[aaron3820]

Welcome to Australia, little one

 

[Edwardian]

12 hours ago, aaron3820 said:

Welcome to Australia, little one

 

 

Does it work?

 

On the prototype, I'm grateful to Compound for reminding me that all the 1930s pictures of the 1930 replica coaches show them paired with Lion, not Rocket, and that it is the 1979 Rocket replica that subsequently pulled the coaches.

 

So, I appear to have a model of a 1970s replica of an 1829-condition loco with models of 1930s replicas of 1830s coaches!

 

The Rocket replica I'm most familiar with is the static cut-away, or 'part sectioned' one on display at York. This, I understand, dates from 1935 and, presumably was always part-sectioned and never a working replica.

 

 

Here is the 1979 working replica in steam, and, as Compound notes, it has a pretty hefty buffer beam added to the rear of the tender.

 

 

Mention was also made by Compound to a 1929 replica.  According to This, Henry Ford commissioned one in 1928, adding, presumably, that it was to be any colour so long as it's yellow.  

 

And finally, entertaining though has been to a solicitor of some 25 years standing to be pontificated to concerning warranties and consumer law, I'm glad to report that my retailer has been swift, efficient and entirely helpful. 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Edwardian
spelling!

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, James3353 said:

I rang Hornby last week as I had two damaged coaches. They said they had no spare sets , individual items or parts.

They will probably have lots of returned sets in a few days time to cannibalise !

So what exactly did they suggest, or did it just come over as “tough no spares” ?

 

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, maico said:

It seems all the tender wires in the Rocket being black isn't that unusual. This is my 2014 Trix German P10. The tender has 4 axle pickups, decoder, speaker and rear LEDS and is joined to the loco with 6 identical black wires...no colour coding

 

Well TBH if they used coloured wires everyone would moan about how they stand out and why didn’t they just use black 

[aaron3820]

I’m happy to say it works quite well, @Edwardian. There is an ever so slight waddle to it as the piston reaches the end of the stroke (seems that the slidebars are a touch short) but after a bit of running in it to me is quite acceptable. 

Not too sure if the attached photo helps anyone with wiring but I’ve marked out with paint pens where each wire is attached to on the tenders PCB. 

 

[Butler Henderson]

45 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Mention was also made by Compound to a 1929 replica.  According to This, Henry Ford commissioned one in 1828, adding, presumably, that it was to be any colour so long as it's yellow.  

Wikipedia indicates their was  a 1923 replica for the Buster Keaton film Our Hospitality, then two built by RSH in 1929 which are in America

[Coppercap]

15 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Wikipedia indicates their was  a 1923 replica for the Buster Keaton film Our Hospitality, then two built by RSH in 1929 which are in America

 

If you watch both Our Hospitality and The Iron Mule (in which the same 'Rocket' was also used to great comedy effect), you can see it is not a particularly accurate replica and it's not even a real working steam engine, despite 'steam' effects. It looks like there may have been a motor in the 'firebox' or 'boiler' with what looks like a belt drive to the engine's trailing wheel. Still, not bad as a 1920s film prop.

The RSH replica's appearance is pretty much as per the current working replica.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Coppercap

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, aaron3820 said:

I’m happy to say it works quite well, @Edwardian. There is an ever so slight waddle to it as the piston reaches the end of the stroke (seems that the slidebars are a touch short) but after a bit of running in it to me is quite acceptable. 

Not too sure if the attached photo helps anyone with wiring but I’ve marked out with paint pens where each wire is attached to on the tenders PCB. 

 

 

Glad it works, as it's a long way for returns and replacements to travel.  That is a very useful picture, thanks.

 

Fingers crossed my replacement will work!

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Edwardian
grammar

[newbryford]

Is the black/white moulding between the axles a plug and socket?

[Steven B]

On 01/03/2020 at 09:33, adb968008 said:

if they now rested the tooling until 2025, (S&D 200 anniversary),

 

If/when they rerun Rocket, wouldn't the 200th anniversary of the Rainhill Trials in 2029 be more appropriate?

The extra time would let them tool up for Novelty and Sans Pareil too.

 

Steven B.

[Steamport Southport]

24 minutes ago, Steven B said:

 

If/when they rerun Rocket, wouldn't the 200th anniversary of the Rainhill Trials in 2029 be more appropriate?

The extra time would let them tool up for Novelty and Sans Pareil too.

 

Steven B.

 

They'll be releasing these at any opportunity IMO.

 

There is the Stephenson connection with the S&D 200th. Then Rainhill 200, then Rocket 200 (opening of the L&M), then the George Stephenson 250th, etc.

 

Also possibly editions for the NRM as well. Who could really blame Hornby for trying to capitalise on them?

 

 

 

Jason

[Robert Scott]

I was also one of the unlucky ones who had entrusted Hattons with my pre-order. The pre-order was placed on 8th January. Obviously by then their known stock must have been all sold.

 

They could have informed me that the likelyhood of being able to get further stock was unlikey and cancelled the pre-order then and there. The fact they did not brings into question their business ethic.

 

In the last 6 months I have spent in excess of £2.6K as I have always used Hattons as a first stop shop. Resulting from this fiasco I have decided to only use Hattons as a shop of last resort. I have cancelled all my pre-orders with Hattons and transferred them to other suppliers, who I hope will act more ethically.

 

So by acting the way they have they have lost a lot of future business from me. Although I doubt if they would care or even notice.

 

 

[Denbridge]

26 minutes ago, Robert Scott said:

I was also one of the unlucky ones who had entrusted Hattons with my pre-order. The pre-order was placed on 8th January. Obviously by then their known stock must have been all sold.

 

They could have informed me that the likelyhood of being able to get further stock was unlikey and cancelled the pre-order then and there. The fact they did not brings into question their business ethic.

 

In the last 6 months I have spent in excess of £2.6K as I have always used Hattons as a first stop shop. Resulting from this fiasco I have decided to only use Hattons as a shop of last resort. I have cancelled all my pre-orders with Hattons and transferred them to other suppliers, who I hope will act more ethically.

 

So by acting the way they have they have lost a lot of future business from me. Although I doubt if they would care or even notice.

 

 

Do you KNOW at what point Hattons became aware they would not be receiving their full order? 

I doubt you do. So attributing blame to a company without knowing the full story is rather pathetic, but sadly an all too common state of affairs in what is otherwise a fine hobby.

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, aaron3820 said:

I’m happy to say it works quite well, @Edwardian. There is an ever so slight waddle to it as the piston reaches the end of the stroke (seems that the slidebars are a touch short) but after a bit of running in it to me is quite acceptable. 

Not too sure if the attached photo helps anyone with wiring but I’ve marked out with paint pens where each wire is attached to on the tenders PCB. 

 

Thats really not good engineering to have soldered joint so close to the pivot of the loco tender, there is going to be a lot of movement fatigue passed along those wires.

[PaulRhB]

Might be worth putting a dab of colour on each wire and recording which one is which at the tender end using the letters on the pub?

[Robert Scott]

14 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Do you KNOW at what point Hattons became aware they would not be receiving their full order? 

I doubt you do. So attributing blame to a company without knowing the full story is rather pathetic, but sadly an all too common state of affairs in what is otherwise a fine hobby.

The whole point is that Hattons continued to take orders beyond their known allocation. 

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Mention was also made by Compound to a 1929 replica.  According to This, Henry Ford commissioned one in 1928, adding, presumably, that it was to be any colour so long as it's yellow.  

 

 

That was off the top of my head. There was a thread a while back which covered the history of Rocket replicas. There was one extant in the 1930s - it was photographed alongside 6220 Coronation at the latter's ceremonial emergence from Crewe Works. This may have been a replica built in LNWR days - there was at least one such, that was the subject of an official postcard:

 

 

Note the shape of the firebox. 

 

One was certainly around in 1910 or thereabouts:

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Compound2632

[The Stationmaster]

29 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Do you KNOW at what point Hattons became aware they would not be receiving their full order? 

I doubt you do. So attributing blame to a company without knowing the full story is rather pathetic, but sadly an all too common state of affairs in what is otherwise a fine hobby.

Do you then?   Apparently not.  All we do know is that according to Hornby Hattons received their full quota of this item and that (according to some posts - Hattons had been made aware of what their quota would be).   The debate then centres around two critical things -

1. Did Hattons continue to accept pre-orders in excess of their quota once they knew what that quota was? and,

2. Did they immediately advise people who had already pre-ordered that they would be unable to fulfil all the orders they had because a quota had been imposed and that some customers would be unlucky?

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That was off the top of my head. There was a thread a while back which covered the history of Rocket replicas. There was one extant in the 1930s - it was photographed alongside 6220 Coronation at the latter's ceremonial emergence from Crewe Works. This may have been a replica built in LNWR days - there was at least one such, that was the subject of an official postcard:

 

 

Note the shape of the firebox. 

 

One was certainly around in 1910 or thereabouts:

 

 

 

Already discussed in this thread.

 

That's the LNWR replica which was then plinthed outside the Clapham Transport Museum and which forms the basis for the 1970s replica.

 

http://blogs.bbk.ac.uk/mapping-museums/2017/09/15/museum-of-british-transport/

 

 

Jason

[Coppercap]

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Already discussed in this thread.

 

That's the LNWR replica which was then plinthed outside the Clapham Transport Museum and which forms the basis for the 1970s replica.

 

http://blogs.bbk.ac.uk/mapping-museums/2017/09/15/museum-of-british-transport/

 

 

Jason

The firebox and driving wheels of the LNWR Rocket are different to the Clapham Museum Rocket. Rebuilt perhaps?