Peterborough North

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert

 

Just going back to 60010 on the Yorkshire Pullman, it seems like the A4s only worked the northbound services with a Copley Hill A1 doing the southbound workings, but I'm sure I've seen A4s on southbounds as well. Considering that they usually returned from Leeds on the YP relief which left 45 mins before the YP itself, you would think that occasionally the A1 would do the relief and the A4 would get the prestige train. Must go and do some more digging to see if I can find that southbound A4 on the YP. Have you seen any records of that happening?

 

Cheers

Tony

Every photo I've seen shows the KX A4 on the 1000 Up as rostered, but  I'm sure there must have been times when things didn't go according to plan, and short term decisions had to be made. I suppose it is possible that if the 1000 engine wasn't quite ready at the right time, but the A1 for the YP was, there could be a swap. It would make sense, after all, and avoid delay for the public, which was a top priority back then.

[great northern]

We have one more photo of the fish, but you will have to imagine the smell, should you wish to do so.

and then we have a KX Goods - Dringhouses Class C, V2 hauled.

And now I must get on, as I have new specs to collect, and a flying visit from a duck later.

[great northern]

Surely that siding should have a totally decrepit 5 plank wagon at the end full of weeds and broken rusty 'things' of indeterminate origin at the end?

You've given me a good idea Neil. I could build a couple of wagon kits, which would probably have square wheels, non square chassis, and anything else guaranteed to preclude free running you can think of. Then I could dump them permanently at the end of that siding.

[allan downes]

Surely that siding should have a totally decrepit 5 plank wagon at the end full of weeds and broken rusty 'things' of indeterminate origin at the end?

 

Like this perhaps, Neil ?

 

Please forgive the temporary high jack, Gilbert. It won't happen again. Promise.

 

Allan

 

[Mallard60022]

I can confirm that there is no stink of Bloaters at Peterborough North. There are though, some very good looking coaches indeed and Steve's interior is admirable

Xavier Ray

[New Haven Neil]

Yes, Allan, exactly like that!

 

Except if I did it, it'd be rubbish, but that one is very nice indeedy.  Atmosphere.

[BR(W)]

I've got plenty of nothing, so I thought you might like a bit more of it.

old shed yard.JPG

Your 'nothing' is so much better than my 'something'!

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

[great northern]

The new specs look promising, within a range of about a foot. Now all I need is another pair so I can see where I left my normal ones when I put the close range ones on. We are still on pictures taken nine days ago, so as usual I struggle to remember what was going on, and in what order it happened, but I think I'm on solid ground with another picture of the V2.

and then we shall end the day with another view of nothing, looking North this time.

[great northern]

For some reason I took rather a lot of pictures of 60862, and here is yet another, a very well used angle too.

So there we are. Close up of a Pro Scale V2. Is it really any more "right" than the Bachmann one? Too heavy around the front end, and boiler too parallel? I do wish Bachmann would get on with the new tooling. I need so may more of these. Then there is another shot of a small corner of the layout. Nothing that impressive or eye catching really, but quite atmospheric?

[New Haven Neil]

V2+NPCS = Happy NHN!

[juke]

The NPCS is now added to my favourite rolling stock list, it looks so out of place in that train, great!

 

Syd

[mark54]

Catching up with Buffet Cars on the GN

 

A standard D.167 would be unlikely. Only the prototype was 33 tons (the diagram shows it with GN-style 3 part sliding lights) and it was allocated to the NE area. The later main batch weighed 35 to 37 tons. These were uncommon on the GN until the early 1960s when rebuilt ones appeared. The 10 original GN area Tourist D.168 cars 9144-53 all weighed 33 tons. Mousa Models do etched sides.

D.167 vehicle weights - S9134E from a photo has an end plate with 35T. That was a rebuilt vehicle, so I don’t know whether that had an impact. However the Carriage Working Notices appear to have the D.167 buffets listed at 34 tons whether in original or rebuilt condition. Finally please scrub reference to 37 tons. My mistake. Apologies!

 

Finally when scanning through the carriage workings I noticed a 24 seat 39T RB in the summer 1960 10:28 KX_Hull/Scarborough. Possibly one of the Thompson rebuilds? (38T is the weight noted in the 1974 RCTS Coaching Stock booklet)

 

 

Gilbert,

 

That's impressive organisation! I've just retired, and I hope that now I have more time I might manage something similar - but I suspect there will always be higher priorities!

 

I see the reference in the Carter article to the 1939 Buffet restaurants on the 4:05pm, but the carriage workings still seem to show a standard 34 tons and 24 seats whereas the d.275 Restaurant buffet had 30 seats. - a mystery! There is a picture of the d.275 in the blue Harris book (p.86). It looks rather similar to the d.11 restaurant car which I'm currently building as a 'cut and shut' from Kirk kits - might try this next. Alternatively, Mousa list the sides on 'extended delivery'. Unfortunately, I think this can mean very extended, but you could try chatting to Bill - I'll take a pair as well if that encourages him!

 

Mark, I'm impressed with your knowledge of the weights of buffet cars. From where do you get this information?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

The job of sorting and cataloguing actually, much to my surprise, didn't take as long as I had feared. Certainly worth doing, as it has proved itself to be several times already. As to the Dia275, Carter says from 1958, so perhaps it was from the Winter WTT? With the information that you and Mark have kindly provided, I've had a change of plan, as it seems clear that what I really need is a Dia 168 car, or even two. Andrew Hartshorne has the RDEB kit now, so it's a decision between that and Mousa.

 

In fairness, when I paid a deposit on something with Mousa, I actually got it quicker than I did something that was marked as immediately available, so there isn't inevitably a long wait. I think that looking further ahead I'd give a Dia 258 car priority over Dia 275 anyway. I know they went into all line service in 1958, but not where. Does Mark know?

D.258 The Carter assertion that they went into general service in 1958 is almost certainly wrong. I have a scan from the Kew National Archive of ER notes of a meeting held on 26/06/58 at York where it is stated that these cars and the Thompson buffet lounges had been out of service since withdrawal from the Flying Scotsmen and Elizabethan and had been offered to the Scottish Region. However the ER rescinded the offer as there was difficulty releasing buffet cars for the modernisation programme and these 4 cars were included as part of the 10 authorised in 1957.

 

D.275 These were classified RB/RU by BR and they weighed over 41 tons according to the diagram. As the Carriage Working Notices are only as good as the day they were printed, it is possible an amendment was made for the 16:05 KX-York in 1958 but it doesn't appear to have lasted long if is right.

[Mallard60022]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that these cars changed in weight when their 'internal fittings' were changed to (say) leccy from gas or whatever  and they were refurbished. Also some bogie changes took place and that could affect weight.

I may have been dreaming this of course.

Phil

[figworthy]

I'm rather liking the "empty" shots of the lesser seen corners of layout.

 

Adrian

[great northern]

A bit of suspension of disbelief needed here folks. Would any body be crazy enough to climb onto that roof, how would they hold on, and given that it was falling to bits, wouldn't they likely have gone straight through? Our intrepid photographer overcame all that though.

Only a few nothing images left for now, but given their popularity I shall have to find some more.

featuring Peter Leyland's delightfully ramshackle water tower.  And some coal.

[great northern]

Imagine our cameraman inching along that roof, his heart in his mouth as it creaks and groans under his weight, with the constant possibility of a mouthful of soot should an engine pass underneath when he is close by a vent or a less intentional gap. Somehow though, he makes it to the end, and very rapidly too, as the V2 is still in sight on its northward journey.

That's enough drama for a Sunday morning, so here is a nice calm scene instead.

Now to test the new specs properly.

[allan downes]

More close ups of Peter's wonderful work please, Gilbert.

 

Allan.

[great northern]

More close ups of Peter's wonderful work please, Gilbert.

 

Allan.

As requested. Welcome to the Great Northern hotel. Most convenient for North station.  Rooms from 3 guineas per night.

[60027Merlin]

Gilbert,

 

Your cameraman friend has captured a couple of wonderful pictures of the V2 on his treacherous recce on the roof. They afford very effective views of the overall area and bring a great sense of depth and realism to the model.

 

No doubt he adjourned to the station bar afterwards for a refreshment to calm the nerves.

 

Eric

[great northern]

The V2 has rattled away past New england yards, and a more prestigious service arrives. This is the 5.35pm Down Newcastle, a Grantham job. Having had a large stud of A1s from new, Grantham then lost the lot in September 57, and has to make do with A3s. The shed still retains most of its top link work though, and shortly the A3s will get double chimneys, and be transformed. Sadly, so will their appearance, as cleaning came to an abrupt halt in 59, but of course for us, that is in the future.

An unusual view, and of an unfinished part of the layout, as you can see.

The A3 is now in the course of its three minute stop, and can be confirmed as Doncaster.

[allan downes]

As requested. Welcome to the Great Northern hotel. Most convenient for North station.  Rooms from 3 guineas per night.

hotel.JPG

 

Now THAT is modelling at its best, Gilbert. The VERY best.

 

Thanks for that.

 

Oh. I don't know how you manage it every time, Gilbert, but the above is another perfect shot of a water column growing out of a loco chimney ! 

 

Lovely shot all the same.

 

Allan

Edited August 13, 2017 by allan downes

[great northern]

Now THAT is modelling at its best, Gilbert. The VERY best.

 

Thanks for that.

 

Oh. I don't know how you manage it every time, Gilbert, but the above is another perfect shot of a water column growing out of a loco chimney ! 

 

Lovely shot all the same.

 

Allan

The problem is that this is an eleven coach train, and the platform is. as it was in reality, only just long enough to accomodate it. Thus, the loco finishes up where it has done here, and the water column gets in the way. It must have happened on the real railway too, I think.

[great northern]

It is time for another M&GN local, though by this time of evening it has come from no further than Kings Lynn. At the head, of course, one of the many Ivatt 4s available to New England and South Lynn sheds.

and this morning's nothing happening shot shows it not happening in the South dock area.

Now, I shall take a long and careful look at a project which was started last year, and which I have put off for far too long. Whether I get any further than looking at it remains to be seen.

[The Stationmaster]

As requested. Welcome to the Great Northern hotel. Most convenient for North station.  Rooms from 3 guineas per night.

hotel.JPG

 

Interesting advertising sign there (Ogden's Tabs) - well over 50 years old by the period in which your layout is set. 

[Oldddudders]

The problem is that this is an eleven coach train, and the platform is. as it was in reality, only just long enough to accomodate it. Thus, the loco finishes up where it has done here, and the water column gets in the way. It must have happened on the real railway too, I think.

 

In "The Steaming Sixties 4" Peter Coster - whose name has been honourably mentioned in this thread more than once - bemoans the fact that Halwill Junction (in remote Devon) "was another of those places with a surplus of lineside furniture behind the locomotive to frustrate the photographer." It seems likely that in his GN days he also found PN to be one such.