MODEL RAIL SCOTLAND 2011

[arran]

Part 1

To point out person in question if the orginisers read these thread without going formal.

 

Part 2

Explaining the frustrations felt on day.

 

Part 3

I knew it may be sounding like a moan due to earlier posts. Although I can assure it was meant as constructive input.

 

 

 

This is not helpful after taking three days to calm down a bit. This post just agrivates

 

 

 

If it did not concern you, then why would you need detailed descriptions???????????????

 

 

 

 

Nice one you even got a thanks for that. But with all your questions put in a argumentative manner, i.e, "!!!" would I not be justified in asking in a back handed way, are you the steward?

 

 

 

You are so right!

 

I sent you a PM !!!

[Mark 37]

I dunno. You realise Arran is the chairman of the AMRSS don't you? I think his responses to feedback very much belong in this thread.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Well then he more than others should get a full picture and read the whole thread too conduct him self in a manner befitting AMRSS chairman. He/you (Arran) have to understand that this is a member of the public you are speaking to who joined this forum to ask questions in order to try his best and give honest feedback to the hard core "railway modellers".

 

 

Mark

[arran]

Well then he more than others should get a full picture and read the whole thread too conduct him self in a manner befitting AMRSS chairman. He/you (Arran) have to understand that this is a member of the public you are speaking to who joined this forum to ask questions in order to try his best and give honest feedback to the hard core "railway modellers".

 

 

Mark

 

Im speaking as ME, so why cant you do the courtesy of a reply to the PM which I sent you before Jack suggested it.

 

Regards Arran

[Mod2]

Ok gents, enough now please. There's plenty here now for readers to form their own opinions (on both the event and the personalities involved), please continue your discussion by PM.

 

Thanks.

[Mark 37]

Well then he more than others should get a full picture and read the whole thread too conduct him self in a manner befitting AMRSS chairman. He/you (Arran) have to understand that this is a member of the public you are speaking to who joined this forum to ask questions in order to try his best and give honest feedback to the hard core "railway modellers".

 

 

Mark

 

This was posted as PM's were recieved.

 

Im speaking as ME, so why cant you do the courtesy of a reply to the PM which I sent you before Jack suggested it.

 

Regards Arran

 

I just read them and understand your point of view, sorry I only have my account set up for moderators PM's so no others flash up on screen. Lots of frustration on the day and vented in the hope that it was taken on board.

 

personalities involved

 

Your right. Ive had to be "step on my toes and I'll run yours over with a truck".

 

My apologies to any readers that saw this going of coarse (I know you didn't really).

 

Humble,

 

Mark

 

 

PS, I still want help....with my track plan.

[multiprinter]

Gents - can I suggest that you move your two-way conversation/discussion/disagreement into PMs, before you both get stomped on by the MOD team - it really doesn't belong in this thread. Thank you

 

Perhaps they can have a duel at the next Glasgow show!

[arran]

HI Mark

 

Thanks for that

 

I will put your input over at the appropriate time to see if there's points we can act on.

 

We do read these threads and take points of view on board were we can.

 

Regards Arran

[Mac]

. Back last June I posted about Perth now being the best show in Scotland, it was a superb show last year, friendly, and like a good old fashioned model railway show, roll on 25 & 26 June. And by the way I have no connection with Perth at all, but I do know what I am talking about

 

 

Bahram.

 

Are you sure you don't have shares in the Perth Exhibition ?

 

But seriously: I enjoyed reading your comments on the history behind Model Rail Scotland.

I might bump into you at Perth.

 

Mac.

[bahram]

No I honestly do not have shares in Perth. I would look forward to meeting you at Perth, I have just been told last night that we are possibly exhibiting at Perth with the 16mm live steam group, if that is true please introduce yourself. As far as the old Model Rail shows are concerned many of us who were about at the time could tell you many a story, some sad but in the main, on reflection, most hilarious.

[North Eastern]

As a fellow railway modeller, a member of a local Model Railway Club and Exhibition Manager for RAILEX NE hosted by Blyth & Tyne MRS. I find some of the comments posted heart warming but also disturbing. I visited Model Rail on Saturday with approximately 30 of our club's members and I believe everyone of our members enjoyed their time at the show.

The show I believe had something for everyone from the absolute beginner to the expert modeller. I also felt the balance of traders was far better than at most other big shows I have visited recently.

I totally agree with a comment from an earlier post that if anyone has any comment to make about the show to address them to the organisers rather than posting them on forums, I know from speaking to organisers of other shows that not everyone reads forums like rmweb. So if you don't let them know they can't change or improve the problem for the next time.

At our show we actively encourage the public to complete a show questionaire, or more recently the questionaire on the website. Not everyone does, but those who do their comments are most welcome even when they are not complimentary. Sometimes the suggestions are unrelistic, more often then not they are achiveable and are acted on. At the next show we publish all the comments made by the public and what we have done to address them.

As a fellow Exhibition Manager I know the difficulties faced by all exhibition managers to put on a successful show. Unfortunately what is one persons cup of tea is not someone elses. The saying you can please some people some of the time but not all of the time has never been more true of organising a model railway show. I came away from Model Rail having enjoyed my time, even if most of it was spent talking to the exhibitors getting ideas and organising exhibits for future RAILEX NE shows. On a personal note my favourite layout was the Dutch layout, which as a exhibition manager ticks all the right boxes, apart from the price which I was quoted as 5,000 euros (approx £4,000+). May be one day we will be able to afford the Dutch layout, I can only hope.

Having organised our show for the last eight years (I think I need to be certified)and being a visitor to many exhibitions around the country I believe Model Rail has improved considerably year on year since I started visiting. Every year poses new problems for a show which I am sure the AMRSS team will take on board and address, if they don't then the public will vote with their feet, I know from experience.

I believe any exhibition team need our praise and not our constant sniping, after all they are all volunteers unlike the shows put on by the modelling magazines. They give up all of their time for free to put on a show for your enjoyment.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Pete the Elaner]

SECC is a shocking venue.

I disagree.

 

As a purpose-built exhibition centre, it has lots of positives.

It is easily accessible by public transport. Not everyone has a car. I do but sometimes like to use the train as I did on Saturday...from Milton Keynes! I can't do that to most of the shows local to me.

It is easily accessible by road. I have read that parking was expensive but I'm sure there was enough of it. I have been to many shows where I have had to park down the road.

Refreshments are available (again at cost). If cost is an issue, it is not very far at all from Glasgow city centre.

The exhibition was in one large hall. I much prefer this to expos which are squeezed into a lot of small rooms with bottle-neck doorways.

[bahram]

Everything you say Chris is 100% correct also what a lot of people forget is that a show is not organised the week before, most top shows are planned about two to three years in advance at least, and that smaller shows will be booked between one and two years ahead and exhibition tams are scouring the country for good layouts, their availability, cost, etc. Sounds glamourous going round the country but as time gets closer for the the show, everyone starts praying that the weather does not create havoc.

[Stewart]

Guys,

 

I think Chris (North Eastern) makes some valid points.

 

The Railex South show referred to in previous posts looks like a great show but it's not comparing apples with apples.

 

Railex South is 20,000 sq ft of exhibition with approx. 20 layouts and attendant traders and societies (according to the website so if I am picking anything up wrong feel free to correct me.)

 

Model Rail Scotland is 55,000 sq ft of exhibition with 50 layouts, 160 exhibitor stands overall (including the 50 layouts and societies) and traders.

 

Of those 50 layouts approx 2/3 are provided by AMRSS member clubs with maybe only a 1/3 "guest" layouts such as the dutch one. The general standard of layouts relies on the AMRSS member clubs. It's a beast of a show and is essentially a big club show , that club being the AMRSS. As such the exhibition manager neither has the freedom or the finance to book 20 guest layouts.

 

Given the size of this show it is testament to the hard work put in by the organisers, that the standard of the show has been raised to the level that it has reached in recent years. It is not and has never claimed to be a finescale show. It tries to strike a balance between some layouts for "finescalers" and still maintain the interest of families and modellers of all abilities.

 

It is also, as Dave said some posts back, a great Scottish model railway social event. It is hard to get round the show in one day because your stopping to speak to faces that sometimes you haven't seen since the previous year!

 

If you have a specific complaint or comments I would suggest you contact the organisers via the Model Rail Scotland website. They are human and events can only evolve with constructive criticism.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Stewart Glendinning

[charliepetty]

As a Trader at Model Rail Scotland, my answer could be one sided! I always enjoy this show, Glasgow is not a rip off and I think the admission price by todays standards in reasonable. What is a rip off is the on site catering, not at Glasgow but ALL large venue shows. I visit Warley, Doncaster, Ali Pali and without exception, all food & drinks are a rip off. At least at Glasgow you can bring your own in, at BRM Doncaster (Nazi Racecourse officials) were warning people in the rest area with tables & chairs, 'If you consume your own refreshments, you will have to leave!' This is of course standard proceedure at Music Festivals throughout the land, and I think more of this will be seen soon! Back to Glasgow, most stewards are club members who are not trained to be nice, but I think they do a good job, I have to say if you put a sign up saying 'NO EXIT', lots of people would try leaving that way! also current Health & Safety regulations are not helping with what used to be 'common sense' situations, the SECC does like Warley & Warners (BRM) stick ridgidly to the rules here. Overall I think Glasgow,compared to Warley, Doncaster, Ali Pali & Peterborough in my opinion comes out tops. Yes Warley has more layouts, but it has more punters and far more traders to pay for them too! Warners BRM events are OK but seem to me like Swap meets with layouts, York is excellent but is lacking modern image, Aylesbury is Quality all round, ModelRail Barrow Hill is a tent! and Hornby Magazine Live could slip into the Warners logic off Trade, Trade & more Trade. I personally like Glasgow, in my opinion ALL modellers should support there local shows and give their money to clubs, not Exhibition companies. Charlie

[vitalspark]

I don`t think I have noted so many negative comments re the Glasgow show in previous years so there clearly must be something going wrong.

I would suggest that the modellers of which I count myself as one stop being dissapointed that the Glasgow show is not comparing in overall quality to other much smaller shows like Perth.

This is great publicity for Perth but it is deservedly so as it is an excellent show however it is obviously easier to fill a small hall with one or two big finescale show stoppers and have another half dozen smaller equally fine layouts. Add a few of the minority scales like `G` etc and the obligatory `Thomas` for the kids..invite some top trade who will be glad to come as the onsite competition is less and you will always have a great show.

 

The SECC has a policy of not inviting back the same layouts within a timescale no matter how good or how popular they are and as said if they have to fill the hall with mostly layouts drawn from AMRSS members..and leave out all of last years I am surprised that they manage at all.

Its a good idea to provide variety but I think its an immpossible task given the size of the venue and the pool of clubs to call upon.

It takes years for new layouts to become exhibition ready especialy the big showstoppers and Scotland just does not have that many groups building these so its not rocket science that their will be a drought for the odd year.

The organisers actually do a remarkble job given the rules that constrain them.

Its my home show and I always attend and as part of a team who exhibited a large finescale layout twice and even although we won awards on both visits the rules precluded us from returning for a set gap to allow fresh layouts for the public to view. Our next few shows apart from one locally which we are happy to support are south of the border.

Thing is where do get such layouts within the AMRSS year after year?..and if you do return the same ones I am sure these pages would be filled with moans about that.

 

I think if modellers attend the SECC and find a large selection of finescale then they are probably lucky as the law of averages would dictate that it can`t be maintained regardless of how hard the organisers try without spending large amounts of cash and inviting lots more guest layouts.

 

It will never be a `Wigan` and even trying to compete with an up and coming Perth is difficult as they just have too much space to fill with too little choice and probably have to work within a budget..I can imagine the sums of money that the SECC want for the hire of the hall.

 

The answer?..there is not one really..a separate smaller finescale show in addition to the SECC which could continue as a family day out might satisfy modellers but whatever happens we have to accept that the organisers are faced with an impossible task to fill a hall like the SECC every year with fresh exhibits.

 

On other issues like complaints at the cost of refreshments I am pretty sure that the traders will have to pay very high prices for their stands and obviously must offset this..its the same at any national venue.. railway exhibition or motor show etc.. accept it or bring a sandwich but its not the traders fleecing you thats for sure more likely the owners of the halls fleecing the traders.

 

My own opinion this year?..probably not as good as last year but then maybe the organisers are as we speak planning next years extravaganza with some mouth watering finescale.

 

Overall I think they do a pretty good job and can`t be all things to all people and considering what the show was like back in the bad old days when the same dross was rolled out year after year..remmeber the Swiss `model?` with the catenary made out of coathangers that we had to put up with!.. its come a long way since then so keep it up Ian.

 

Dave

[59004 ( was Shedcombe....)]

Hi all,

 

My fourth consecutive year of being on the DEMU Roadshow demonstration stand.

Truly enjoyable once again.

What a great show it is every time again.

 

Always nice to meet so many familiar faces, and gain new contacts as well.

So nice to be able to help other people out, if it's within my abilities and available time.

 

I had no real projects of my own going on, with the advent of Irish modelling in favour of British, with a goodbye to many UK models ( thanks buyers !!! ) and inrush of Irish models.

These came in the form of 4 Irish baby-GM's "Class 141/181" in IE livery, mint unrun, for just £65 each ( again many thanks Si ) and 2 IR/IE Cravens coaches for just £30 each ( thanks a lot Charlie ).

What about RRP or higher prices for sold out items ?!?!?!?

No such things for me luckily.

With a little effort, there were surely possibilities to negotiate bargains.

Otherwise belonging to DEMU or other AMRSS affiliated local Scottish model railway clubs gives you some rebates at selected traders.

 

I was able to undertake work on other peoples models.

Installed a decoder in a non-DCC-ready Bachmann 08, resurrected a Minitrix Class 27 after not having turned a wheel in 15 years and worked on a DCC Sound, smoke unit and flickerbox fitted kettle.

Yes I know, the last doesn't tie in with DEMU, but always glad to help out.

 

Had the odd discussion, and gave many advice on DCC matters.

Some were even sent by for an unbiased advice on DCC by one of the DCC traders.

Unfortunately, I had to send them back to the same stand most of the time, to follow up on that advice ..........

 

Didn't get to play trains.

Did a few bits on the DEMU society stand, but this appeared to be on the more quiet moments, so can't really comment on how this ran over the whole show.

 

Signed up with the Scalefour Society with Terry Bendall, Si's father.

A very friendly and well skilled modeller, taking plenty of time handing free advice.

Will follow this wholeheartedly.

While P4 standards are new to me, so is Irish modelling, 21mm gauge and handbuilding of track.

 

Next to all this, I'm going home with a book on relative new Irish railways, more money then I came with and a splendidly enjoyed time and lighter suitecase.

Up for a repeat next year .............. if they'll have me again.

 

 

Apologies to all for not mentioning the names of the people I met a first time, the people I see once a year just at Glasgow, or the good friends made over the years that I caught up with.

All contacts are nice as usual.

Nice to have met the new faces or familiar ones.

All assets to the DEMU and the good DEMU cause, so well guarded by Phil and supported by his core Scottish contingent.

I won't name names, you're all good in your own ways.

Happy to know you, share time with you, and get friendships out.

Things/events expressed by others I wholeheartedly agree with.

 

 

 

Regards, Michel

[caradoc]

Living locally, I have visited the Glasgow show every year since 1985. Despite the minor niggles over things like entrances/exits, it is still a great show and I would not miss it for anything. I usually go on 2 days, one mainly for buying and one for looking. The organisers deserve thanks for the work they put in every year.

I refrain from criticising any of the layouts, having never exhibited a layout at an exhibition myself. All those there with a layout have given up their time to exhibit and should be thanked for that.

[Stewart]

PMP,

 

No offence taken re. Railex.

 

Simply trying to make the point that as with Perth as somebody else alluded to it is perhaps easier to manage the quality level on a specific finescale show at a smaller level than the beast that is "Model Rail!"

 

Very jealous if you get to Railex 2011 it looks like a great line up of layouts and evidently a people friendly venue.

 

I am sure that the ARMSS Exhibition Manager will take on board all of the constructive comments for next years show.

 

Regards,

 

Stewart

[North Eastern]

Everything you say Chris is 100% correct also what a lot of people forget is that a show is not organised the week before, most top shows are planned about two to three years in advance at least, and that smaller shows will be booked between one and two years ahead and exhibition tams are scouring the country for good layouts, their availability, cost, etc. Sounds glamourous going round the country but as time gets closer for the the show, everyone starts praying that the weather does not create havoc.

 

Thank you for your comment, it indeed is not a glamorous job going around the country as an exhibition manager, as you do not get to enjoy the exhibitions as you would as a normal member of the public. Your priority is to seek out suitable layouts, demos and traders to come to your show. I'm not complaining as I actually enjoy it, which to some may seem to be a thankless task.

As for advance planning, at RAILEX NE I was booking layouts for 2013 in 2010. Todate I have 3 layouts booked for 2013 and approx 20 for 2012. This year i will start planning for 2014 and so it goes on. A few years ago I heard that Warley book their layouts 5 years in advance which demonstrates the sheer requirement in planning an exhibition.

 

It is true that the AMRSS are a collection of clubs/societies in scotland and as such as exhibition manager, he will be obliged to accept layouts from the clubs of the association. This enables them to keep costs down and also showcases the best of the clubs abilities to future members. At Blyth we have 12 layouts of various gauges under construction, 6 of which will be appearing at our show next year, and at least another 3 in 2013. if we can achieve this as one club imagine the possibilities that Ian the AMRSS exhibition manager has at his disposal from all of the clubs in the association. By having a good supply of homemade layouts available it enables the club to use their budget to get some really special layouts, i.e the recent Dutch layout springs to mind.

 

I would say to all exhibition goers it is to easy to criticise about an exhibition's failings, but have you attempted to organise a show yourself? Likewise I will never criticise a persons layout that they were exhibiting as they have spent a lot of time and effort to get it to the point that they are willing to give their free time and exhibit. They should be applauded and encouraged to continue what they are doing. That is not to say that some layouts are not better than others, they are, but this all depends on the builders skills level. We all continue to learn from this hobby and being able to meet with like minded people at exhibitions and swap ideas can only benefit us and the hobby as a whole.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[bahram]

A nice sensible post, Chris, I did not realise that Warley booked layouts as far 5 years in advance! It is true that that AMRSS have to take some layouts from their membership, may be some are below the quality of visiting layouts, that is point that you can bring them up the standard and increase there modelling knowledge and skills, and with a bit of luck their next layout or the existing one is upgraded for their next show. Glasgow is a very difficult show to organise because of its association status, but in general the organisers do a good job. There happens to be no other venue in Glasgow suitable for a big exhibition, and if you see that SECC hall on a Thursday morning before anyone arrives it would make you weep, it is just a horrible big barn of a place and always looks filthy. The only one factor, as I said before, due to illness I was not there this year but the one factor that if correct and I think the AMRSS should maybe investigate, is that allegedly the traders fixed prices. Years ago traders were invited on what they had to offer, For example a kit manufacturer, a Continental retailer, a couple of book sellers, etc., and at exhibitions you could pick up bargain.

[tractor_37260]

Hi all

Made the usual trip down to "THE" Show at Glasgow - Friday only this year, last year being snowed in was the first time in 20 years or so I missed either operating or just visting. Arriving at 10.15 or so, I was amazed to see the length of the queue for "advanced ticket holders" The show was busy early on Friday, normally it's a quiet time and easy to get around, until later. The mixture of layouts was varied, with something for everyone's taste - some being better that others, some I felt not of a standard to have been present. There also appeared to be a lack of some of the usual traders, but also some new ones. Noted there were not many bargains to be had, with lots of items at RRP - more in some instances ? My main gripe: There were very few traders selling a range of transfers etc - NO Fox (not for the last few years due to ill health I believe) NO Modelmaster/Jackson Evans and lastly but not least - NO Railwaynia - Replica Railways ?? although in the show program as attending ? what happened to them ?

 

The wife was happy thou ! spent a lot less this year than in years gone by

Ken

[shed64a]

I went on Saturday morning with my boys aged 6 and 2 and their grandfather, it was our first time to the exhibition and we all really enjoyed our visit. There are not many places or shows that 2 adults and 2 children can visit for £24 so that was a big plus for us. There has been alot said about the standard of layouts but for someone who has just really started I thought that I could achieve the standards of some and then aspire to the standards of others (Loch Orran and the dutch layout as well as a few others).

 

Yes, it was busy but we expected that, my 2 year old was safer on my shoulders but that was more for layout owners than his! My 6 year old's only complaint was that his feet hurt from standing on the barriers to see, but that will be fixed next time by bringing a box for him. Yes, people bumped in to us and so were rude, but the same happens at Tesco.

 

I didn't really look at the traders because I was there for inspiration, and being able to see some layouts that had appeared in magazines helped appreciate them even more.

 

I would suggest maybe finding a way of selling advance tickets without the fees and such high postage as it would have worked out more expensive to buy my ticket that way.

Would I go next year? Yes, we had a great morning.

 

Lots of the above comments mention the problems with the SECC and the lack of a suitable alternative in Glasgow, does it have to be in Glasgow as I can think of venues in Edinburgh that might work i.e Corn Exchange, EICC, Meadowbank, Murryfield there may be others. Just a thought.

 

Anyway thanks to all who made an enjoyable visit.

[Andy C]

North Eastern makes some very salient points about putting shows on. Comments like some of these i've seen on this thread make me feel like throwing the towel in myself (bit late as I have already indicated I will have retired after this years 75th anniversary show!!) and Im sure quite often other exhibition managers think the same. If you have a beef with a show then approach the organisers direct. Feedback is useful and enables to buld on things, improve and if something is radically wrong, fix it. Airing it in public just gets peoples backs up and in actual fact achieves very little apart from make people think again about going to the show.

 

Unfortunately a lot of people have no real idea of the effort and hard graft it takes even to put a modest show on, let alone one the size of MRS. Trying to achieve a balance of layouts in terms of gauge, scale, prototype etc etc to keep everyone pleased in some way or another is hard enough. And thats before we get to trade demos and societies. Of course some are never happy because the show isn't full of what they like - and I particularly remeber one person after Manchester 2009 complaining like hell because there was too little "modern layouts" in saying the show was cr*p. That depsite having three of the best layouts on the circuit at the moment in one pen alone (Wibdenshaw, Pempoul and "Stealth Bomber". We (the exhibition team) all looked at each other and thought why do we bother after reading that diatribe. Fair play he did apologise in the end, but its true that the internet gives a very loud voice to those who shouldn't be heard. If you cant say anything good, don't say it.

 

I couldn't be at the SEC (i was supposed to be exhibiting New Hey there) this year due to work (at least i gave Ian plenty of notice, it wasnt at the last minute drop out as usually happens) - but hope to be there next year.

[shortliner]

Just to move the topic on a bit, it would be nice to have some more photos - judging by the numbers of cameras in use , some with and some without flash, there must be a fair number out there!

[jwealleans]

We made the trek north with Thurston - in fairness, the rest of the team came a great deal further than I did - and I think it's fair to say we enjoyed it. It's a different experience going to one of the very big shows, which manifested itself in things like 'no exhibitors catering' and the ban on reel extension leads, even when fully rolled out. Those are common to all the big dedicated exhibition spaces, though and it's not as if we didn't know before we went. Continuous free tea and coffee goes a long way to improving the experience and the quality accommodation just outside the hall helps as well. If invited back I don't think we'd hesitate.

 

We had no trouble with the exhibition centre staff or stewards - in fact they were very helpful. I spent quite a lot of time chatting to other exhibitors as well. The atmosphere was very friendly.

 

Peeves? Well, the extremes of temperature between Friday and Saturday morning doesn't help running. It was cold on Thursday evening but I found it hard to believe a hall that big could be that hot by Friday morning. There's probably not a lot the organisers could do although it did cool markedly in the hour before the public came in (after we'd adjusted the joints, of course...)

 

I'm afraid it's just nonsense to suggest the traders were all selling at RRP and I have a new Bachmann O4 at home for several pounds less than the usual benchmark dealers are selling it for which proves the point.

 

One thing did strike me as odd... I was looking for a Dapol 16 tonner kit for No. 2 son and failed to find one all weekend. Now someone will tell me where I should have looked.

 

Top marks to the Irish S scale layout, my personal favourite and the Dutch (it may have been set in Germany but they were from Holland) layout. Not perhaps the most extensive or varied railway model but for breadth of vision and sheer skill it knocked my socks off. That coal unloading operation was all scratchbuilt.... fabulous.

 

Finally to echo Jack's point above: I spent all weekend being clicked and flashed at but I don't see much evidence of the outcome... anyone want to post their photos or video? Especially of the Dutch.