gabrielthorn Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) I've ordered mine 2 weeks ago and there was a loose part in the box. I've sent it back for a replacement, and I've received an other one with at least 6 loose parts even very big ones. I'm very disappointed in the quality of this loco. Edited December 3, 2014 by gabrielthorn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Graff Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I've ordered mine 2 weeks ago and there was a loose part in the box. I've sent it back for a replacement, and I've received an other one with at least 6 loose parts even very big ones. I'm very disappointed in the quality of this loco. 20141202_190111_small.jpg Ahh! The infamous Heljan "get half of a RTR" locomotive.They seem to be unable to fasten the parts securely.... In Sweden, Heljan made the F1200 steam loco, and most of them had reverted to a kit stage when delivered. I guess it would have been better to have Bachmann make them instead.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee74clarke Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Got my Garratt back to Hattons on Wednesday, and a replacement arrived yesterday. The original stopped running suddenly, seemed like rear motor failure. I can't fault Hattons customer service, replacement or refund offered, with no problems, they were really spot on. Some opinion on here is that attempting to repair yourself is all part of modelling, my opinion is that how do manafacturers improve things if they never get kit back to find the issues? Sadly, I speak from experience on that one through my job. Don't forget, for most manufactures, carrying out repairs or mods invalidates the warranty, so even if you solve issue A, if an issue B crops up, you're generally out of luck. Anyway, I still hope (maybe naively) that this great model will be fine. 2 hours running yesterday and I'll run it again this morning. Fingers crossed then........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Mass-production of detail can also mean mass-production of faults as witness motorcar recalls. It only takes the failure of one engine unit to stop a Garratt. I have no doubt the price would have been much higher than £200.00 had Bachmann or Hornby produced it. Edited December 6, 2014 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee74clarke Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Mass-production of detail can also mean mass-production of faults as witness motorcar recalls. It only takes the failure of one engine unit to stop a Garratt. I have no doubt the price would have been much higher than £200.00 had Bachmann or Hornby produced it. Agreed. But maybe a higher price and no issues would have been the answer? Although, I know people with 'premium' cars, and they have plenty of problems with those as well! Garratt been running for an hour, sweet as anything. Mind you, I hope I haven't got to spend the rest of my days timing a flippin' model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Peter Beckett Posted December 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2014 My front end arrived back home today. Hattons replaced the unit but obviously had no water tanks with British Railway on them as the original was returned (I had a secret mark on it). On the bench test appears to be OK so will fully assemble the Garratt and test tomorrow. No explanations in the return and an email to Liverpool replied that they do not know the reason for the failure. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2014 My front end arrived back home today. Hattons replaced the unit but obviously had no water tanks with British Railway on them as the original was returned (I had a secret mark on it). On the bench test appears to be OK so will fully assemble the Garratt and test tomorrow. No explanations in the return and an email to Liverpool replied that they do not know the reason for the failure. Peter Which in effect says they cannot be bothered to find it.How reassuring is that ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 To be fair to Hattons they aren't required to find the reason for a failure but as they have commissioned the model their job is to get it back to the manufacturer with a "sort and explain" rocket attached.... All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 What they need to be saying is we have liaised with Heljan. The fault has been identified i.e the motors are crap . Please return for decent motors to be fitted . Sounds like a big hit to someones wallet 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Someone earlier actually found a problem with the valve gear, which jammed. This would cause the motor to stall, and if left powered, burn out. So saying the motors are crap is a rather strong statement to use. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Someone earlier actually found a problem with the valve gear, which jammed. This would cause the motor to stall, and if left powered, burn out. So saying the motors are crap is a rather strong statement to use. Stewart 1 out of how many failures? I have had valve gear jam and the (decent) motor has always survived if turned off asap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I suspect any strain put on one motor, whatever the cause, would be overshadowed by the other motor doing the donkey work . In other words, Insidious motor damage would not be noticeable until complete failure. It is surely a unique occurrence in the RTR model railway world for so many folk to strip down one particular model and reassemble it or fit new motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2014 To be fair to Hattons they aren't required to find the reason for a failure but as they have commissioned the model their job is to get it back to the manufacturer with a "sort and explain" rocket attached.... All the very best Les As an interested bystander...that's to say one who would have bought one by now if he had some reassurance it wouldn't happen to him.....I think forum members have been more than fair to Hattons. It is their model and theirs to market 'fit for purpose'. Despite the numbers of failures reported on this forum over several months,there has been no evidence from them that they show any willingness to seek a definitive solution to the difficulties that have been suffered.It is their model,whomsoever botched the job.With beneft of hindsight.....and that's a precious thing....did it not ooccur that with a model of such innovation and complexity testing pre production samples adequately before release would have been a sensible move ? Hoping the problem will disappear in the mists of time isn't helping anyone and will damage Hatton's reputation in the long term.If there is a fix,then where and when is it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted December 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2014 My Garratt has generally been good, some small bits have come off and to be honest I haven't a clue where they have come from so they join the other bits in the box. Still looks good though and I still have a bag of bits to fit on. The worst thing that has happened was a bit of valve gear came disconnected, I have glued it back in place and everything runs fine. The question is...would I buy another Garratt? Sadly no, the quality is not good enough, considering this model had such a long gestation period I would have expected a better finished product. But I am not complaining I like the model and the positives outweigh the negatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I have one; like many models nowadays some small bits fell off, but as I was handling it rather a lot I'm not surprised. Easily fixed though, I expect that nowadays anyway with the fragility of modern builds. Not talking Hornby-Dublo here! I have run it back and forth a fair bit on my layout (about 18', nowhere to go beyond that yet) through complex trackwork and am more than happy with it. I then stripped it right down to its component parts, so that it could be sprayed and dirtied. Re-assembly involved stripping out unnecessary (to me) lights and DCC wiring, so that it became a much simpler wired loco for DC. As for cost? To me it is 2x loco, at £100 each. Not excessive, probably a tad cheaper than a new loco (ie one end) would cost today. Complexity? Noooo - a simple 2-6-0 with outside valve gear, and somewhat plainer "body". 2x Bachhy 76xxx without tenders seem more complex and fiddly to me. Yes, together, it is a big beast. Not a newbie for Heljan, they have done steam before. Dodgy motor? I honestly don't know, but having heard of valve gear jamming, I really think that is more likely; when seized, and this is important, if power is kept on, most motors would fail. Agreed if you see it stop, you switch off. I also saw evidence on mine of poor electrical connections when I stripped it down. As I work in electronics, I am aware of what to look for there. Though none of mine failed in service, it is possible they would have, though I will never know as I have totally rewired it. Should Hattons investigate? Well production is finished, so what would be gained there? If the quality overall is poor, worst case is they could refund everone's cash and take the hit. but we really don't know how many faults they have had (we are only really hearing of faults on here, not of the total build), To their credit, they are replacing locos, or refunding. They probably are repairing them too if they have a simple fault.. How many retailers do that and never tell you the original fault, in all lines of goods sold? Bottom line, 1) do I regret the purchase? NO. 2) Would I buy more? YES, but I have no need for any. Stewart Edited December 11, 2014 by stewartingram 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold trw1089 Posted December 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well I am hesitant to say that my Garratt is still running beautifully and with less chance of failure (I hope) that the valve gear clearance is sorted and last night I took it to the British Railway Modellers of Australia meeting near me where it ran with 43 minerals around and around a member's layout, and at a speed much higher than I have previously run it. Of those who attended though, 4 had bought them and I think only mine was running successfully, others had various issues with front end failures, derailing etc. I think it is disappointing that such a nice looking loco, with obvious potential to run very well, has had so many issues, but perhaps that is just a symptom of the market which continues to demand lower costs and hopes that we are delivered perfection. Unfortunately that market direction is bound to fail. In the end, it's your money and you have the right to demand a product that is fit for purpose, but this hobby is all about what you make from it yourself, and I for one will be continuing to work on my own locos to achieve the level of running that I require, whether that voids the manufacturer's warranty or not! Cheers Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted December 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 11, 2014 .......... and I for one will be continuing to work on my own locos to achieve the level of running that I require, whether that voids the manufacturer's warranty or not! Cheers Tony Given the slow rate of progress on my layout, most of the manufacturers’ warranties on my locomotives have expired before I get around to doing anything that would void the warranty. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Well I am hesitant to say that my Garratt is still running beautifully and with less chance of failure (I hope) that the valve gear clearance is sorted and last night I took it to the British Railway Modellers of Australia meeting near me where it ran with 43 minerals around and around a member's layout, and at a speed much higher than I have previously run it. Of those who attended though, 4 had bought them and I think only mine was running successfully, others had various issues with front end failures, derailing etc. I think it is disappointing that such a nice looking loco, with obvious potential to run very well, has had so many issues, but perhaps that is just a symptom of the market which continues to demand lower costs and hopes that we are delivered perfection. Unfortunately that market direction is bound to fail. In the end, it's your money and you have the right to demand a product that is fit for purpose, but this hobby is all about what you make from it yourself, and I for one will be continuing to work on my own locos to achieve the level of running that I require, whether that voids the manufacturer's warranty or not! Cheers Tony I think I have mentioned before that perhaps the Garratt was produced to a ' price point' in order to gain enough sales to make the project succseful in terms of sales, however it is notable that other Heljan Continental outline H0 steam locos do attract a much higher selling price,, a Danish 4-6-2 Pacific loco listed on Heljans website costs 3695 Danish Krone which is well over £300 ( if my calcs are correct) Edited December 11, 2014 by Stevelewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Graff Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I guess that many would have bought the Garratt at a higher price. Just look at the price of a GMAM Garratt.... and I own two of those.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I guess that many would have bought the Garratt at a higher price. Just look at the price of a GMAM Garratt.... and I own two of those.... Would that be the DJH RTR Version in H0? if so VERY nice and 5 times the price of a BR Garratt? Any Photos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I think I have mentioned before that perhaps the Garratt was produced to a ' price point' in order to gain enough sales to make the project succseful in terms of sales, however it is notable that other Heljan Continental outline H0 steam locos do attract a much higher selling price,, a Danish 4-6-2 Pacific loco listed on Heljans website costs 3695 Danish Krone which is well over £300 ( if my calcs are correct) £393 at the moment Steve, so you could almost have 2 B-Gs instead. Used to get over 11 DK to £ but that was a while ago and that sort of rate hasn't come back since sterling dropped. Litra E is a very nice model but I can't quite justify nearly £400. Sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Post 1778 above suggests that Heljan's other steam locos are not fault free. Keith Edited December 14, 2014 by Grovenor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The 02/Tango could be interesting then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2014 The 02/Tango could be interesting then? But please in a positive way.Can't be doing with a repeat performance of this nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattoxic Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Reading comments on this forum had me scared while I was waiting for my Garratt to journey to Australia. Anyway, it's here and it's not a bad runner for the complexity. I found it would stall on a left hand radius, this seemed to be the wheels pulling away from the pickups - a bit of bending has sorted this. I would hate to experience engine failure to seisure because I'm not sending it all the way back to the UK. Oddly, I've found that it can run over really complex point work with no problems, but the simplest mainline points will derail the front pony truck. As others have mentioned this needs some weight. I have a Eureka models R class that suffers the same issue, and Casula hobbies in Sydney have developed lead weights that snap into the pony truck bolster. I bought a set of these hand the R Class now runs like a dream. Someone should produce something similar for the Garratt. interestingly the Eureka R Class also had a looooong and painful gestation with many unhappy customers when the model was finally released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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