Hornby 2012 - Reasonable Speculation Thread!

[D605Eagle]

The minimum radius on my layout is 2 ft. 6 in. Why should I have to suffer by not having a 2-8-0T or 2-8-2T because other people's track has sharper radii?

I've just finished building an old Wills Flatiron that refuses to go through setrack points, so I've used it as an excuse to do away with the things. Its time I modernized!

[micklner]

From todays MRE Mag sounds very hopeful

 

 

Hornby Programme 2012

On Wednesday, this week, members of the model railway press met at Hornby headquarters to hear what plans Hornby has for next year. The press have this early meeting in order to allow them to prepare issues of their magazines which will be released early in January. However, as in the past, an embargo has been imposed to prevent the information from being released before Hornby have announced their programme themselves. This year the embargo will be lifted later than usual, to ensure that retailers are briefed before the announcement appears. There will therefore be no announcement on Christmas Day but instead the embargo will be lifted at 9am on 3rd January. At that time, Hornby will post their programme on their website and a full report will also appear on MREmag.

It is not breaking the embargo to say that there is to be no letup in the development of new models and, despite this, Hornby expect there to be no carryover of new models into 2013. In other words the whole programme will be completed during 2012. As evidence of this we were able to handle a record number of new models in an advanced stage of production. We were also able to take away the first samples of the B1s and teak finished Gresley non-gangwayed stock.

Hornby have been listening to you, in MREmag and elsewhere, and have produced an exciting programme for 2012. It will make a lot of modellers and collectors happy.

[Horsetan]

....As a GWR fan I want a GWR Big Tank...

 

I'd like a 15xx shunter. That's quite big.

[00ERmissus]

 

I would also like to see Hornby do a new range of Mk1s but I don't think that will happen.

 

Steve

 

I agree with you Steve and although the Bachmann Mk1’s are rightly regarded as the current benchmark and they are good but in a perfect world they are not without their faults, well documented on this site, the pronounced roof ribbing being the most obvious. Hornby have outpaced Bachmann completely in recent times when it comes to new passenger coaches, the latest Gresley offerings being prime examples and of course there are others. So I realise I’m off topic a bit but if Hornby produced some new Mk1’s – up to their exceptionally high current standards, I’d replace my entire stock, no question. I don’t think either that it is reasonable to speculate that they will appear in 2012 but with a bit of momentum from us, perhaps in the not too distant? As for my own predictions: Don’t honestly know but the lovely N7 they produced as a one-off few years ago that has so far not appeared in production would may be a great low cost option? Not that I’m biased of course!

[D605Eagle]

 

I'd like a 15xx shunter. That's quite big.

Beasts of tank engines they were! Did they not get built in BR times and flogged off with indecent haste?

[The Stationmaster]

In 2011 30 people also voted for the GWR 52XX but Pat would not accept (or the Plowpeople would not accept) that its total should be added to the 42XX total because it might include double-voting. Which was rather silly as i had suggested to them, via Pat, before the poll that the two should be shown together. In other words you could make it whatever you wanted!

 

I'll stick with my speculative forecast of one or two 0-6-0s - one of which might be LNER (and the other a GW tank engine?). But back along there was a lot of hints floating around that Bachmann's next NRM engine might be a 'Director' - so if Margate were listening to that (as often seems to have been the case - perhaps?) then who knows what it all might mean But at least the reference to the poll from Pat (who seems quite close to Hornby) might be a realistic hint - in fact more realistic than some of our wilder guesses.

[m0rris]

I'd like a 15xx shunter. That's quite big.

Hows about we get both?

 

Hopefully, after all of the doom and gloom based on Frank Martin's comments on a drive to the cheap toys market it sounds, based on Pat's comments, that we may well be suprised.

[The Stationmaster]

Beasts of tank engines they were! Did they not get built in BR times and flogged off with indecent haste?

No more hasty than various other latterday steam - they simply ran out of work. As it happens one of them would suit me down to the ground (only need to transfer it about 15 miles to be spot-on) but I doubt we'll see an R-T-R one for a very long time, if ever.

[Ozexpatriate]

If you add the 42xx, 52xx and 72xx together, and the D10, D11/1 and D11/2 together, they are both a long way ahead of the rest.

In 2011 30 people also voted for the GWR 52XX but Pat would not accept (or the Plowpeople would not accept) that its total should be added to the 42XX total because it might include double-voting.

Indeed, I remember that back and forth. The maths don't work for 2010 anyway which is where the hint leads:

 

GWR 42xx 2-8-0T 69 (2010) 74 (2011)

GWR 72xx 2-8-2T 52 (2010) 58 (2011)

GWR 52xx 2-8-0T 7 (2010) 22 (2011)

 

While the total of 128 reaches the higher polling LNER items in 2010, the J6 vote was still higher. The 2011 total is stronger, but as you say, there was a strong allergic reaction to "double counting" on MREmag. Personally, I don't see how, even with a common ancestry, 42xx and 72xx can be lumped together. Even though the 72xx were rebuilt from 42xx, and while some tooling might be shared, from an RTR model standpoint a new chassis is required.

 

The D10 was not even in the 2010 poll.

 

If we consider the old big green and named chestnut, perhaps 2012 is the year for the P2 after all. If there's a real hint in Pat's comments at all, my augury says LNER locomotive (and not a B16!) Were Hornby to build a P2 would they go streamlined for maximum numbers/liveries, or as built for N^o.s 2001 and 2002 for the novelty factor?

 

Of course they could surprise us with a J6 or J15.

[The Stationmaster]

 

If we consider the old big green and named chestnut, perhaps 2012 is the year for the P2 after all. If there's a real hint in Pat's comments at all, my augury says LNER locomotive (and not a B16!) Were Hornby to build a P2 would they go streamlined for maximum numbers/liveries, or as built for N^o.s 2001 and 2002 for the novelty factor?

 

Of course they could surprise us with a J6 or J15.

In all of this I am still trying to work out why a P2? The 'Tornado' effect is hardly going to work with something which is still a glint in someone's eye although I can see the tie-in and so I'm not quite sure how it would go down in the non-enthusiast market - and it surely has to be a mass-market 'son of Tornado' type of model in the present economic climate? (Although I might actually buy one for my East Coast 'nostalgia collection' of out of my normal sights locos.)

 

As far as the GW 8-coupled is concerned I fully agree; no way can you add 72XX to 42XX and get a sensible answer - because of the chassis situation even if the bits on top aren't much more than a 'cut & extend the bunker' job. However a 42XX (or a 5205) is another one that would suit me down to the ground, in multiples, but I think it's nowhere near as likely as a new 0-6-0T (assuming there's anything Western).

[Guest Belgian]

I may be wrong, but I don't think Hornby will introduce yet another LNER mainstream model in 2012, despite all the LNER modellers' speculation. They have produced 4 in the past two years' programmes (if you accept 'Tornado' as LNER) and they tend to go around the companies overall. The GWR has had the 'Castle' recently and the 28xx, the Southern had the N15 not so long ago and BR had the 'Clan' but the LMS hasn't had anything major for a long time.

 

I know most big LMS stuff has been covered but 'Duke of Gloucester' has LMR credentials and is on the main lines today, so I would go for that as the headline model. For secondary work the Stanier mogul has been hinted at for a long time so that might stand a chance. From the 'Wishlist' polls I think the GWR 2-8-0/2Ts are are strong candidates and the LNER/SR 'Atlantics' might be the principal possibility if the notorious problems with the wheelbase can be overcome for production purposes.

 

I think the general message is that we have all got ourselves into a hopeless 'frothfest' over speculation about 'toys' as a result of reading some snippets by journalists who have no knowledge of the model railway markets. I hope so, anyway.

 

JE

[Glorious NSE]

Electrostar - green and comes in twos!

 

In twos ???

 

It does if you want a 6, 7 or 8 car formation, if you want 9, 10, 11 or 12 you'll need 3....

[deltic56]

As I as I can find out the message from Hornby is " that if it is in their 2012 catalogue it will come out in 2012. This applies to ALL Hornby brands not just railways." Time will tell but I hope it is correct

[phil gollin]

.

 

The only "Southern" engine in those 2010 and 2011 lists are the Brighton Atlantics - but seriously I think there are more worthy candidates, this tends to show how strange these polls can be.

 

.

[coachmann]

It's nice that Hornby caters for the railway enthusiast market of the type that wants locos that matter (common 0-6-0's and 4-4-0's etc), but it matters that Hornby keeps an eye on the market that really fills its coffers, the folk who will buy anything that attracts them and the collectors. This is why i selected the P2 2-8-2. Its no damn good to anyone in the world of reality but who can deny it has the wow-factor. Wouldnt YOU buy one? I know I would.

 

I also consider the GWR 2-8-0T has a wow factor amongst the coffer fillers solely because it differs from the run of the mill Prairie Tank and pannier.

 

My earlier choice of the GNR large boiler Atlantic was a no brainer for the NRM or Hornby. It fits in well with the East Coast Pacifics....... It would also spawn the Brighton version, and put the motor low enough and her-presto....Henry Oakley, another NRM fav.

 

I wont mention the "Fell" again except that it suits two camps and it too has that wow f......

[Dan Hill]

I think there may be the possibility of 60019 Bittern in Brunswick Green with second tender or as I'd prefer 4492 Dominion of New Zealand with second tender. Given that we recently had the two tender 4472.

 

I'd like but not probably not happening

 

SR Merchant Navy (As built) - There a few choices of liviery such as Southern Malachite with numberplates and Southern plates (as on 21C1 when built), Southern Malachite (as on 21C123), BR Express Blue, BR Brunswick Green with early crest, BR Brunswick Green with late crest.

 

SR S15 - Would probably not be released with the Bulleid but it would give us another big Maunsell locomotive to join the N15's and Schools

 

LNER P2 - My preference would be in the style of 2001 Cock O' The North as built but this would limit the release to 2 locomotives (3 if you include the version of 2002 Earl Marischal with the second set smoke deflectors and maybe 4 if the A1 Trust's feasability study is successful) but there could be the A4 style where all 6 locos could be released.

 

BR 71000 Duke of Gloucester - A popular loco in preservation and a loco that would make a great model and go well with the Standard 4's, Brits and Clans that Hornby have produced

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a GWR and maybe a Southern release to counter Bachmann after they announced the Dukedog and C Class. I like the idea that Kernow could comission a H Class or Adams Radial but as the Radial is an LSWR loco as the Beattie Well Tanks and 02 Tanks are then that could be the more likely option.

[Oldddudders]

The only "Southern" engine in those 2010 and 2011 lists are the Brighton Atlantics - but seriously I think there are more worthy candidates, this tends to show how strange these polls can be.

It does indeed. A Brighton Atlantic is a kind of steam-era equivalent of a Blue Pullman - a glamour girl, and indeed they were often snapped with a few pullmans behind. The Brighton had far more versatile locos, such as the E3/4/5 tanks, the C2x Vulcans, the K moguls, even the J tanks. The other Southern constituents have much better candidates to offer, too, with the 700 Black Motor, or one of the SECR 4-4-0s coming to mind.

[Neal Ball]

How about a year of NO new releases? - Just consolidate the 2011 catalogue and get their supply chain sorted out?

 

Rather than a year of promised delivery dates....... Just a thought!!

 

Or maybe a new updated 48xx - DCC fitted with accompanying Autocoach, with DCC lights and passengers...... Together with working head and tail lamps.... sold as a fixed unit....

 

Ground breaking, taking DCC to a new level in R-T-R.

[S.A.C Martin]

I would have thought that (and I'd be delighted if a P2 was announced...!) that Earl Marischal - having the same walschaerts valve gear arrangement as the streamlined four which followed, would be the easiest of the first two to recreate, albeit with the larger deflectors. Cock O' The North would of course have lentz rotary cam poppet valve gear - is this something Hornby are really willing to invest in, for a one off model?

 

Noting the O gauge P2s on the market which have sold very quickly, I wonder if 2001 in original condition wouldn't be one of those extremely rare, highly sellable one off punts.

 

If do they announce a P2, I will be bouncing around the room on January 3rd like a 10 year old...!

 

But oh, how I'd buy so many J50s...

[The Stationmaster]

As I as I can find out the message from Hornby is " that if it is in their 2012 catalogue it will come out in 2012. This applies to ALL Hornby brands not just railways." Time will tell but I hope it is correct

That would indeed be something of an improvement according to the local model shop owner I was talking to yesterday. Apparently large swathes of promised Corgi releases simply haven't appeared this year allegedly (according to him) because investment/production capacity has been used for 'Olympic items' (of which he has ordered very little like many other regular retailers). As a result he has lost a steady market of sales of new releases to Corgi collectors.

 

So maybe next year's improved delivery promises owe more than a little to having got things right with the Olympics themed stuff (they've actually been useful?) and can take up the capacity it used this year? Sorry for going slightly OT.

[Mike at C&M]

Really going to stick my neck out.....

 

R6508A, 20T Brake Van in Bauxite livery

[Guest Max Stafford]

It does indeed. A Brighton Atlantic is a kind of steam-era equivalent of a Blue Pullman - a glamour girl, and indeed they were often snapped with a few pullmans behind. The Brighton had far more versatile locos, such as the E3/4/5 tanks, the C2x Vulcans, the K moguls, even the J tanks. The other Southern constituents have much better candidates to offer, too, with the 700 Black Motor, or one of the SECR 4-4-0s coming to mind.

 

 

I wouldn't say no to a Reid Atlantic!

 

Dave.

[2ManySpams]

It does indeed. A Brighton Atlantic is a kind of steam-era equivalent of a Blue Pullman - a glamour girl, and indeed they were often snapped with a few pullmans behind. The Brighton had far more versatile locos, such as the E3/4/5 tanks, the C2x Vulcans, the K moguls, even the J tanks. The other Southern constituents have much better candidates to offer, too, with the 700 Black Motor, or one of the SECR 4-4-0s coming to mind.

 

I agree with Ian, whilst the Brighton Atlantic might be a good looking engine and would sell to the 'ooh that looks nice' market, I'd much prefer something a bit more useful like a U Class (2 variants to go at there and a common chassis (with extra truck!) to do a Rolling River tank). The Us did have a wide coverage of the Southern network and there's always the option of tinkering with the frames / cylinders and chimney to do the BR 'modified' version. That's my bit of wish-listing anyhow (I'm not going down the line of U1 as 'different' to some is 'plain ugly' to others!).

 

So in balance my predictions for the next few Southern bias locos from whoever over the next few years are:

Brighton Atlantic (looks nice and preserved tie-in),

Adams Radial (very different in looks, fills another niche (and niches seem to sell - Beattie Well tank etc) and would look nice with Kernow's Gate Stock),

S15 (the big missing Southern freight)

and perhaps some pre-grouping tank?

 

Some how I can't see anyone doing the Original Merchant Navy - perceived limited life in that condition? - but would be more than happy if they did.

[coachmann]

Cock O' The North would of course have lentz rotary cam poppet valve gear - is this something Hornby are really willing to invest in, for a one off model?

The 'valvegear' is a peice of cake as kit makers usually make it a rigid moulding so that the only moving parts are the connecting and coupling rod plus a return crank not physically connected to the return crank gearbox.

[S.A.C Martin]

The 'valvegear' is a peice of cake as kit makers usually make it a rigid moulding so that the only moving parts are the connecting and coupling rod plus a return crank not physically connected to the return crank gearbox.

 

That's interesting - so 2001 actually becomes more viable as a one off.

 

Hmmm...Hornby P2...is it looking more likely, or less likely?