Hornby 2012 - Reasonable Speculation Thread!

[Guest dilbert]

 

And I think the average Joe or Joanne Modeler is much happier and capable of putting together a plastic kit of a wagon than tackling a loco or lined coach kit.... and there's such a great and diverse range of kits already on the market to back up the Bachmann (mostly) decent RTR stuff in 4mm. Therefore folk are naturally more interested in new locos and the trickier coaching stock.

 

Which highlights a strange comparison :

 

- blue/red boxes have the statement 'not suitable for children under 14 years...'.

 

- red/yellow boxes containing for example the latest Hawksworth coaches (IMO excellent models) I recently received have the mention '... not suitable for children under three years.'.

[stevetreble]

On matters GWR there does seem to be a lot of heat around the prospect of a new large tank engine or pannier. If Hornby were to release a 2-8-0T I hope they go with the 42xx rather than the 72xx as they cover a wider period and will therefore be likely to find more buyers.

 

The same goes for a new Pannier as a 64xx would suit pre-war modellers as well as post whereas a 94xx or 15xx would only suit post war modellers. The 64xx were also all auto fitted so would have the double advantage of being an all new model, and a suitable companion for an autocoach should they choose to release an updated one.

 

A revised King, or Toplight/Collet coaches would also be most welcome, but as someone else previously said I'm not really feeling the love from Hornby on these ones. I have to wonder if part of the reason Hornby give the impression that GWR doesn't sell that well is because they haven't embraced the pre war modeller on a few occasions recently. The new Castle and 28xx have been most welcome, but the Hawksworth coaches are post-war models and even the Grange, lovely as it is, suits only a minority of pre-war modellers. All the other pre war GWR models in Hornby's range are quite old. So, personally I really hope we don't get a 94xx, 15xx or 16xx.......

[rovex]

Pullmans

 

Are there any pullman coaches that Hornby haven't modelled yet. I find myself in two minds about their Pullman fixation, They obviously sell otherwise they wouldn't keep finding new ones to model, and as a lad I had my GWR Albert Hall and brace of pullman cars on my train set. But when I became a man I put aside childish things

 

Surely given that the majority of layouts are bucolic branchlines or industrial settings, and even those modeling mainlines are pushing it to include a Pullman train, I do find it difficult to understand the current fascination for them. (Then again I was never taken with the train that dare not speak its name (B**e P*****n).

 

Whatever is driving this phenomenan it certainly it can't be the child market as £40 a ocach puts it out of the pocket money range.

 

So my money for 2012 is on yet more pullman coaches.

[Andy C]

 

I'll also throw in some sort of Southampton express pack relating to the centenary of the Ttanic's maiden voyage...

 

 

 

That would go down well.

[rovex]

Got it

Pullmans and the GWR - otherwise known as Super Saloons, and as there were only two types as built and as modified with a kitchen, they could do the entire range with only two coaches.

Brilliant - A pullman (sort of) and it keeps the GWR fans happy

[gc4946]

Pullmans are one of Hornby's strongest cards in their pack and they always sell, I must admit my predictions didn't mention any, but there are some types not yet modelled:

 

1951 design built for use on the Golden Arrow

1921 matchboard design built on ex-LNWR 57' frames first used as WW1 ambulance cars, two survive in use as camping coaches at Ravenglass. Hornby's brought out the Devon Belle observation car modified from these series Pullmans.

1910 matchboard design built for SECR e.g. Topaz at the NRM

The original 1874 Midland Pullmans with clerestories

 

As an aside, the 57' LNWR frames which debuted with the Devon Belle observation car might be used as a basis for ordinary LNWR passenger stock (that's my wildest possible speculation)

[The Stationmaster]

On matters GWR there does seem to be a lot of heat around the prospect of a new large tank engine or pannier. If Hornby were to release a 2-8-0T I hope they go with the 42xx rather than the 72xx as they cover a wider period and will therefore be likely to find more buyers.

 

The same goes for a new Pannier as a 64xx would suit pre-war modellers as well as post whereas a 94xx or 15xx would only suit post war modellers. The 64xx were also all auto fitted so would have the double advantage of being an all new model, and a suitable companion for an autocoach should they choose to release an updated one.

 

A revised King, or Toplight/Collet coaches would also be most welcome, but as someone else previously said I'm not really feeling the love from Hornby on these ones. I have to wonder if part of the reason Hornby give the impression that GWR doesn't sell that well is because they haven't embraced the pre war modeller on a few occasions recently. The new Castle and 28xx have been most welcome, but the Hawksworth coaches are post-war models and even the Grange, lovely as it is, suits only a minority of pre-war modellers. All the other pre war GWR models in Hornby's range are quite old. So, personally I really hope we don't get a 94xx, 15xx or 16xx.......

Look at what is reduced to low prices at e.g. Hattons in the 2-8-0 line. On the face of it there is some evidence, beyond what Simon Kohler often says when asked, that Hornby GWR does not sell well. Equally of course you could say that if they made the right things to modern standards then sales might be better - the problem if you are in business is the 'might' word - and it's far easier to find GW liveried horseboxes still on the shelves than it is those in BR livery.

 

As far as GW tank engines are concerned I have predicted (incorrectly) something in the 54XX/64XX/74XX family for the past several years and I still think that is the best bet for the Western. Talking to Simon Kohler a couple of years ago at Swindon he seemed remarkably aware of the possibilities that group offered and he advanced the view that their existing pannier ought to be replaced (but then maybe he knows how to preach to the converted so to speak?). And equally he freely admitted that the 'King' 'is not up to current standards' - but that struck me as no more than a statement of fact and I still regard it in that way while dealers are still sitting on stocks of 'Castles' or knocking them out for 60 odd quid a pop. And if they did do a 'King' what would it be - as built or later BR condition with renewed front end and, probably, a double chimney; so difficult to backdate.

 

I'm not so sure about a 94XX has it has a bit of appealing bulk to it and not much detail variation allowing plenty of freedom to cheaply offer alternative numbers - a good economic proposition perhaps? But still I think unlikely. I think, as I've said earlier, that you can forget the 15XX - limited use although a tiny bit of livery variation but more importantly far more complicated to produce (=higher costs) than just about any other pannier you care to name. The 16XX is, I think, the curve ball in all this but again I think unlikely because it's too modern.

 

As far as the 8-coupled tanks are concerned the 42XX would undoubtedly be the most sensible as it's the longest lived (albeit with detail variation), is readily measured, can be produced in a faux preservation livery (with a name!!) which youngsters and their cash bearing relatives might recognise, and has been oft requested doing well in polls. So nice (and I want several please) but perhaps not likely yet I suspect.

 

The other alternatives are the two retooled tank engines - dunno, but why retool the 48XX/14XX when you could do an all singing & dancing (perhaps?) 64XX for your pus-pull trailer?

[gwrrob]

Got it

Pullmans and the GWR - otherwise known as Super Saloons, and as there were only two types as built and as modified with a kitchen, they could do the entire range with only two coaches.

Brilliant - A pullman (sort of) and it keeps the GWR fans happy

 

Are you thinking of the ones used on the brief Torquay Pullman service ?

[The Stationmaster]

 

Are you thinking of the ones used on the brief Torquay Pullman service ?

I took it as a reference to the Super Saloons, and not to the GWR's limited use of Pullman cars. Super Saloons would not be much use to many modellers because they were so heavily route restricted although they are familiar to the many punters at Didcot so have a marketing attraction from that angle if nothing else.

[Guest dilbert]

The 16XX is, I think, the curve ball in all this but again I think unlikely because it's too modern.

And also hampered by the fact that although a GW Pannier design, this class was only built by WR(BR), though I suspect GWR modellers would purchase under modeller's licence (or should that read licenced modelling?).

 

There are other attractive Pannier designs that will never see the light of day in model form, but have a unique look to them such as the 0-6-4 crane tanks (N°s 16 Cyclops' and 17 'Hercules') - here's a Lego version which is remarkly good

http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/216163

 

... dilbert

 

PS Prototype photos in Russell's GW Engines, Vol 2.

[Barry Ten]

Wagons.

 

A revised hi-fi GWR/BR Toad, longevity, livery and marking variations, natural addition to the 28xx's.

 

Both Bachmann and Hornbys are 1970's vintage which I suppose in part shows how far ahead of the game Airfix and Mainline were at the time.

 

Good call. I'd not normally have considered a Toad as a candidate for new model, but as you say, it's been a while (and the Ratio moulding is equally, if not more, elderly). Done well, could be a very charismatic model.

[S.A.C Martin]

Silly question - how poor are the current Hornby and ex-Mainline Toad brakevans?

 

I know this hasn't stopped Hornby or Bachmann from tooling up new BR brakevans, just curious is all.

[frobisher]

Silly question - how poor are the current Hornby and ex-Mainline Toad brakevans?

 

I know this hasn't stopped Hornby or Bachmann from tooling up new BR brakevans, just curious is all.

 

Not sure about the dimensions and wotnot but they've always looked good but replacing the moulded detail, no matter how nicely done, with seperate fittings would go down a storm. In theory, Hornby have just replaced the BR one of a slightly younger vintage so it's not outside the realms of possibility. I'd got the (false) impression that Bachmann had updated their OO one as they'd done a brand new N gauge one (they also updated the LMS one in N) so this might be an area of competition?

[Guest Phil]

 

Those are strange names for kettles ;-)

 

Ours is a 3-CUP.

 

Are you sure you don't mean C CUP Pennine, given the SRs one time penchant for describing six coupled locos as "C" ?

[Ceptic]

I don't reckon on Hornby producing the S15. Like the MN, there's three differing batches. To Joe Public, it looks too much like a Black N.15., at ,probably, a higher RRP. lf Hornby slapped some SR Green on it, it would look, even more, like a King Arthur.

 

Mind you, wouldn't it look great, hauling a long line-up of Walrus hoppers ?.

[Neil]

Pannier tank, hmmmmm, nice.

[Ben Alder]

Pullmans

 

Are there any pullman coaches that Hornby haven't modelled yet. I find myself in two minds about their Pullman fixation, They obviously sell otherwise they wouldn't keep finding new ones to model, and as a lad I had my GWR Albert Hall and brace of pullman cars on my train set. But when I became a man I put aside childish things

 

Surely given that the majority of layouts are bucolic branchlines or industrial settings, and even those modeling mainlines are pushing it to include a Pullman train, I do find it difficult to understand the current fascination for them. (Then again I was never taken with the train that dare not speak its name (B**e P*****n).

 

Whatever is driving this phenomenan it certainly it can't be the child market as £40 a ocach puts it out of the pocket money range.

 

So my money for 2012 is on yet more pullman coaches.

 

There are the Pullmans built for the Caledonian Railway that ended up as restuarant cars , and ran till c1961- plenty of livery variations potential here.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...pus-pull trailer?

Oh, that's why Swindon used that odd yellow shade on the upper half of GWR stock. I love the way this site provides answers.

 

Are there any Pullman coaches that Hornby haven't modelled yet. I find myself in two minds about their Pullman fixation, They obviously sell otherwise they wouldn't keep finding new ones to model ... Surely given that the majority of layouts are bucolic branchlines or industrial settings, and even those modeling mainlines are pushing it to include a Pullman train, I do find it difficult to understand the current fascination for them.

The obvious gap in Hornby's Pullman stock is the Queen of Scots cars to current standard. (Their Railroad Pullman cars represent a Parlour and brake end of this type.) These are a must for all those Doncaster pacifics we now enjoy. Model the right line and you can have Pullman sets roaring past in each direction several times during your days timetable, and mix them up with Bach's Met-Camm cars during the steam to diesel transition.

[caradoc]

 

Sadly Bachmann appear to have absolutely no interest in Southern stuff.

Exhibit A: Upgrade to the Bachmann Bulleid coaches - many statements issued over the years that this won't happen.

Exhibit B: Their Lord Nelson appears to have been allowed to die.

Exhibit C: Never following up on the N Class by doing their originally planned U Class.

 

Over the past few years Hornby however have done Southern (steam) fans proud. MN, WC/BoB, Schools, T9, King Arthur, M7, Q1 and Rebuilt WC/BoB.

 

I've forgotten how many times I've heard from the Barwell camp that Southern doesn't sell - seemingly a bit like the Hornby thought patterns that GWR doesn't sell Mind you we all have set ideas on some things.....

 

And yet Bachmann have/will have produced the following Southern-suitable stuff:

 

Lord Nelson

N Class

C Class

 

Ivatt 2-6-2 tank

Fairburn 2-6-4 tank

 

BR Standards:

Class 5 4-6-0

Class 4 4-6-0

Class 4 2-6-0

Class 4 2-6-4 tank

Class 3 2-6-2 tank

 

Diesels

10000/10001

03

04

08

24

42

47

 

4-CEP

2-EPB

MLV

 

SR Pillbox brake van

SR 12T vent van

 

LBSCR complete station building range (Sheffield Park)

SR Art-Deco station buildings, signalbox

Substation, transformer.

 

Not too shabby a list, and hardly 'no interest in Southern stuff'. All that green must make SR enthusiasts envious !

[Ceptic]

Not forgetting the bogie mounted, 25t. 'Queen Marys', eh, Caradoc ?.

[caradoc]

Thanks Ceptic, missed that one !

[Guest dilbert]

The obvious gap in Hornby's Pullman stock is the Queen of Scots cars to current standard. (Their Railroad Pullman cars represent a Parlour and brake end of this type.)

 

Hornby did an LE train pack a few years back to the current standard with Queen of Scots coach boards :

 

- 'penny extras' class Parlour Car, Rosamond

- 'sawdust' class Kitchen Car, N° 61

- 'sawdust' class Brake Car, N° 161

 

(picked up from a split set circa 2005, no clue what the motive power was)... dilbert

[wombatofludham]

Left field a bit I know, but given the obsession (sorry, marketing tie-in) with the Olympics seems to be driving Hornby group at present, could this year's new release be something LT shaped, like a District line set or a Jubilee line set? There's always been a background muttering for LT stock which was as prominent as that for 3rd rail units.

 

Whilst they'd never get the Limby motor bogie into a tube set they might just squeeze it into a District line set and doesn't the District line head out near the Olympics fairground?

[davidw]

Oh, that's why Swindon used that odd yellow shade on the upper half of GWR stock. I love the way this site provides answers.

 

 

The obvious gap in Hornby's Pullman stock is the Queen of Scots cars to current standard. (Their Railroad Pullman cars represent a Parlour and brake end of this type.) These are a must for all those Doncaster pacifics we now enjoy. Model the right line and you can have Pullman sets roaring past in each direction several times during your days timetable, and mix them up with Bach's Met-Camm cars during the steam to diesel transition.

 

 

Mixing them - only if the colours match this time Paul....

[Tim Hale]

 

And yet Bachmann have/will have produced the following Southern-suitable stuff:

 

Lord Nelson

N Class

C Class

 

4-CEP

2-EPB

MLV

 

SR Pillbox brake van

SR 12T vent van

 

LBSCR complete station building range (Sheffield Park)

SR Art-Deco station buildings, signalbox

Substation, transformer.

 

Not too shabby a list, and hardly 'no interest in Southern stuff'. All that green must make SR enthusiasts envious !

 

That's a bit more realistic