Dave47549 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A lot of the old Airfix/Kitmaster range is still available from Dapol, I wonder how well they sell? Surprisingly well in a railway museum where little Johnny/Julie/Dad wants to take something home to make which they have bought with their pocket money. At Shildon, the Deltic is always running out of stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Will kits soon be superceded by 3D printing? The rate at which that technology is evolving, in a few years I can see us being able to buy "downloads" of models from on-line sites, for us to either print at home, or take to a "print station". There's far less cost and risk involved for the vendor, with their main concern being CAD, packaging and delivering the app and any IP rights. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 as a kid I used to build the Airfix 1:72 plane kits, they were generally cheap, under a fiver for a single engined fighter etc, or a little more a light bomber, but what I really wanted was a loco kit. I didn;t know about the Dapol kits etc, and what I really wanted was a Class 20, perhaps even in 3mm (to make it that bit cheaper?), for around £4:99, yes basic, but buildable in a modest time on a pocket money equipment. But even a Parkside or Chivers kit dosn't come in under a fiver these days, and they are typically fewer parts, and some common parts across a range, so the 'overhead' is both smaller and spread across mor unit sales. I think you would have to go 'OO' to maximise the market. The Knightwing Sentinal is probably fairly close to hitting what you were looking for, but I can't remember the last time I saw one of these built, or even for sale. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 But even a Parkside or Chivers kit dosn't come in under a fiver these days, and they are typically fewer parts, and some common parts across a range, so the 'overhead' is both smaller and spread across mor unit sales. The Dapol models are all under £10 but the molds for these have been about for some time now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Magna Models (described by some as "take this lump of whitemetal and file it to the shape of a loco" - that my be unkind, I don't really know) Richard, my 3f was Magna Models. The comment is definitely right, there was no way you could file enough off the 3 boiler, firebox and cab castings to get them in line, mine is just well disguised. Whitemetal lump chassis too, but I did put brass axle bearings in it. Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
18B Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 The Dapol models are all under £10 but the molds for these have been about for some time now. Indeed, and personally while OO would be preferable, I'd settle for reasonably priced 3mm TT gauged loco's. the market mentioned RE: the Mum Dad kid visiting a railway place etc, one would think the market for a loco kit, for under £10 of say a 20 etc or even the new Javlin etc, is no smaller than some of the obscure 1:72 aeroplanes which seem to be available, in the the kit range if you model ships, planes or cars etc, there seems a whole host of models to choose, admittably the ones mentioned for loco's seem costly and are of prototypes which don'y really appeal, but there are small number, it just seems odd that the Dapol Deltic still seems to be churned out, but no other diesel of a similar size seems to have been produced in a similar manner? Unless I've missed um? I'm thinking where's the 47, the 50 etc? All available RTR I know, but then when it comes to planes most of the major types are now available as fantastic cast items, beautifully decorated and all there ready to buy aka RTR, but where's the fun in that compared to building a 1:72 spitfire etc etc? This seems afairly good list of what's out there: http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/2125_1.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Will kits soon be superceded by 3D printing?... Given that you can actually print your own chocolate or iced cakes on a 3D printer, the sky would appear to be the limit. .....it just seems odd that the Dapol Deltic still seems to be churned out, but no other diesel of a similar size seems to have been produced in a similar manner? .... In HO / 1:87, Revell produced the ex-DR Class 131/132 "Ludmilla" diesel as a plastic kit. Very good it is, too. Just needs motor bogies, some weight, and you have a runner. Would be relatively harmless way to get something running in P87 if you wanted to take it that far (and I certainly do!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 I was quite surprised to see my name in this thread. The difference between producing a die for a wagon and are a locomotive is huge. A wagon is essentially flat, even rooves are flattish. Locomotives, particularly steam, are very 3d. Whereas wagons can be made in pair of dies with a single split between them, boilers etc need to be made in multipart dies with several part lines enabling complex parts to be removed. With our facilities, Parkside and I would struggle to produce even a riveted tank wagon, never mind a loco, even though Ratio did. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 With our facilities, Parkside and I would struggle to produce even a riveted tank wagon, never mind a loco, even though Ratio did. Roger Ruston 88DS... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The most important thing in injection moulding a locomotive is the injection of loads of cash. Very difficult to do when you haven't actually got any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The most important thing in injection moulding a locomotive is the injection of loads of cash. Very difficult to do when you haven't actually got any. or realistically ever getting it back!! Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 I nearly mentioned the 88ds! I have been working hard not just to cope with depression, but to rid myself of it. I have cut the first 2 new dies for almost 2 years in the last couple of months so I am more confident now that I can get back to my old productiveness sometime this year. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The other loco kit around then was a large scale of the 'General' but can't recall the manufacturer - I want to say Revell but I'm sure someone will know the right answer. Dave AMT I think, in about 1/25 scale. Like quite a few AMT kits of the time, I think it was also available in the UK as an Airfix-branded version for a while in the late 70s/early 80s- funnily enough I think I've still got one lurking in my parents' loft... I was quite surprised to see my name in this thread. The difference between producing a die for a wagon and are a locomotive is huge. A wagon is essentially flat, even rooves are flattish. Locomotives, particularly steam, are very 3d. Whereas wagons can be made in pair of dies with a single split between them, boilers etc need to be made in multipart dies with several part lines enabling complex parts to be removed. With our facilities, Parkside and I would struggle to produce even a riveted tank wagon, never mind a loco, even though Ratio did. Roger So basically, the complexity of the dies needed for a loco kit would make it prohibitively expensive for anyone outside the big players (Airfix, Revell etc...)... Now you come to mention it, I'd never really registered the lack of tank wagons in the various plastic wagon kit ranges- but seeing your explanation, it makes sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2012 Its not surprising that there is so few plastic kits of locomotives. The first producer of such kits (Kitmaster) went bust. The moulds were acquired by Airfix who persevered with them before passing them on to Dapol together with their own 'home grown' model railway items. Airfix probably sell more 1/72 scale Spitfires than they ever have their entire OO model railway range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2012 The other loco kit around then was a large scale of the 'General' but can't recall the manufacturer - I want to say Revell but I'm sure someone will know the right answer. MPC http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=9975&mat=trains Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It does appear to be economically feasible if you cater to the military modellng market: 1/35 German military train models (sorry, I couldn't find a nice listing of them all in one link) http://www.hobbylinc.com/trumpeter_plastic_model_locomotives http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tsm/tsm01516.htm http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tsm/tsm00207.htm http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tsm/tsm221.htm http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tsm/tsm1511.htm http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tsm/tsm01518.htm http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/cyh/cyh9120.htm And 1/72 http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/hbo/hbo82911.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It does appear to be economically feasible if you cater to the military modellng market: 1/35 German military train models (sorry, I couldn't find a nice listing of them all in one link) http://www.hobbylinc...del_locomotives http://www.hobbylinc...sm/tsm01516.htm http://www.hobbylinc...sm/tsm00207.htm http://www.hobbylinc.../tsm/tsm221.htm http://www.hobbylinc...tsm/tsm1511.htm http://www.hobbylinc...sm/tsm01518.htm http://www.hobbylinc...cyh/cyh9120.htm And 1/72 http://www.hobbylinc...bo/hbo82911.htm you've said it all, "military modellers" the market is so much bigger Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't think that asking the question "would you buy a model train" on here will give a true picture of the likely sales. The answer here is going to be far more positive than in the outside world. You would need to be asking potential purchasers in model / toy shops, at museums and preserved railways to see just how likely this would be to succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Will kits soon be superceded by 3D printing? The rate at which that technology is evolving, in a few years I can see us being able to buy "downloads" of models from on-line sites, for us to either print at home, or take to a "print station"... I can hear the conversation now. "Is that the Digisolido Sandblaster class model. Doesn't look quite like any of the advertised examples I saw online?" "Yes, based on the Digisolido but it has been print customised." "I thought it was an encrypted download, so that the output was defined at purchase." "If you look on Whee-Boy, there's several crackers who have ripped the code; and the guy I got this off has added options for a Ramsbottom safety valve bonnet, earlier mantrap cab, stovepipe chimney, continuous splashers, circuit breaker blowers, louvred radiator vent and several different front lighting panel styles among other things." "Why did he offer all those D&E options on a steam loco?" "Well, it's a standard pack of options he supplies whatever you buy, he's ripping everything; he's got Datamodels classes 196 and 198 and Bitprints Clunkers and Crunchers among other things. And it's all dead cheap." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Surely, for 'Cottage Industry' production quantities, whitemetal or resin would be cheaper to master and produce. Several makers have come and gone over the years, Magna Models (described by some as "take this lump of whitemetal and file it to the shape of a loco" - that my be unkind, I don't really know) and Centre(?) Models (with their range of industrial locos) come to mind. I make a loco kit in resin and without the running gear it still costs well over £50 to make it viable. Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davet Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I seem to remember Ratio and a 4mm Midland loco if I remember right nobody had anything good to say about it, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I make a loco kit in resin and without the running gear it still costs well over £50 to make it viable. Phil T. Quite true, few people realise that resin cast models are very labour intensive compared to injection moulding, and because the process causes wear on the moulds, you only get a limited number before the mould has to be re-done. There is a very successful Australian company who do injection moulded rolling stock that sell on average for around £16, but the only reason they exist and can be sold at that price is because the manufacturer cuts his own dies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Quite true, few people realise that resin cast models are very labour intensive compared to injection moulding, and because the process causes wear on the moulds, you only get a limited number before the mould has to be re-done. There is a very successful Australian company who do injection moulded rolling stock that sell on average for around £16, but the only reason they exist and can be sold at that price is because the manufacturer cuts his own dies. still far cheaper making a new mould from the original master for resin or white metal casting than producing new tooling for injection moulding, as these wearout as well of course Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted February 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2012 There is a very successful Australian company who do injection moulded rolling stock that sell on average for around £16, but the only reason they exist and can be sold at that price is because the manufacturer cuts his own dies. All the cottage industry manufacturers in the UK cut their own dies. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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