New announcements from Bachmann

[brushman47544]

Modellers of UK outline are apparently notoriously reluctant to replace older models when something new and better comes along. The mainstream view seems to be "it may be better but not enough for me to replace my existing models".

 

If this is the case why are Bachmann redoing the class 158 then?

 

mark

Good question. In part don't forget they're replacing one of their own, not competing with another manufacturer. And Bachmann is committed to replacing all non-DCC ready chassis with DCC ready ones and I rather saw this as part of this programme, just with bells on. After all, the 158s be around for years yet and will see lots more new liveries to boot. So good future sales can be expected.

[apollo 079]

Regarding 'competition', or if you must have it 'duplication' (the sematics of which you are free to argue over as much as you like in your own time), I feel I can do no better than to quote Gareth Bayer in this month's Rail Express Modeller (on the subject of "Traxx" and "Eurosprinter") from the Nurnberg Toy Fair:-

 

"What was clear was that duplication of major models is not seen as an issue......". I can't say that I always agree with Gareth, but I believe he is spot on with this.

 

Re faults with the Hornby 56, I might mention the recessed "tea strainer" roof fans and the paper air horn covers just for starters. True, these can be relatively easily corrected by a competent modeller (thanks largely to Shawplan), but should this really be necessary in this day and age?

 

I feel that's enough, as I may be censured for straying too far off-topic.

 

Kevin

[reevesthecat]

Don't disagree with any of that Andrew, am surprised though that the 158 has hardly (if at all) been mentioned in the official Bachmann blurb- unless I blinked and missed it!

mark

[PenrithBeacon]

For me it's impossible not to be impressed with the Bachmann range and their announcements for the future, but, and it's a big but, there seems to be little point in the ambition if they continue to make daft mistakes. The Midland 3F was a real lift for me when I read that one was going to be introduced, but the mistakes in the tender frames and the splashers have really taken the gloss off. Fortunately I haven't yet actually bought the model and I'm wondering whether I ever will, although I suppose that it could be modified by bashing together the LRM 3F (which I have in my stores) to produce an acceptable model. But then why bother, why not just do the LRM kit.

 

One of the common opinions that run through threads like these, is that the modern RRP models make kit building an un-necessary chore, but when the RRP manufacturer gets it wrong, the RRP model becomes an RRP toy not a model. I cannot help but speculate if the forthcoming J11 will have the same errors, hopefully it won't, but it's not something to look forward to.

 

Looking on the bright side, it is now possible to model much of the CLC and least in loco terms for those who are willing to accept the errors. The D11, J11, 3F, Black 5, B1, 04, 8F, Jinty, Fairburn and G2a together with the future Class 101 dmu make a perfectly acceptable loco stud, but a lot of kit building would be needed for rolling stock.

 

Sorry for the gloom.

 

Regards

[S.A.C Martin]

Re faults with the Hornby 56, I might mention the recessed "tea strainer" roof fans and the paper air horn covers just for starters. True, these can be relatively easily corrected by a competent modeller (thanks largely to Shawplan), but should this really be necessary in this day and age?

 

Are they "wrong" or "not fine enough"? I'm somewhat stumped by this assertion. Don't these fans also move while in motion - wasn't this a first for diesel outline models in the UK?

 

I can't say I understand the idea that the Hornby 56 needs updating or warrants such a low view of it as a model.

[Waverley West]

Are they "wrong" or "not fine enough"? I'm somewhat stumped by this assertion. Don't these fans also move while in motion - wasn't this a first for diesel outline models in the UK?

 

I can't say I understand the idea that the Hornby 56 needs updating or warrants such a low view of it as a model.

 

The Hornby 56 doesn't need updating. Some decent roof and horn grilles would be nice, but what I'd really like is a coupling system that doesn't drag the first wagon or coach off the track at every corner. Ditto the Hornby 50 and 31 (the latter less so, presumably because of its shorter body). I really don't think that's too much to ask. I'm very relieved that Hornby do so few diesels that I need.

 

I don't mind superdetailing locos, but fitting an entirely new coupling system that works reliably is a different matter. The coupling just needs to be attached to the bogie, not the body. That's all really.

 

Sorry. Rant over.

 

Cheers,

Dave

['CHARD]

..... what I'd really like is a coupling system that doesn't drag the first wagon or coach off the track at every corner. Ditto the Hornby 50 ...

 

Just shows how my Hoovers have yet to put in any revenue earning service

 

Had yet to discover that unfortunate personality trait. Grrrr doesn't do it justice. Little wonder these are the only modern Margate diesels on my roster.

 

But tell me this, is it sucking air in or blowing it out? Running in one direction it sucks, on the other it blows.

 

Now that will play hell with the performance of the cooler group

[apollo 079]

Are they "wrong" or "not fine enough"? I'm somewhat stumped by this assertion. Don't these fans also move while in motion - wasn't this a first for diesel outline models in the UK?

 

I can't say I understand the idea that the Hornby 56 needs updating or warrants such a low view of it as a model.

 

Sorry, I should have said "roof fan grilles". The fine-ness of the mesh is a smaller issue than the fact that it is recessed down into the body and should be flush. Early Bachmann Class 37s and 20s sufffered from the same issues, but this has since been addressed. Will Hornby do likewise, is what I'm asking?

 

Re the rotating fan, this first featured on Hornby's Class 50 along with that ither gimmick (I use the word advisedly) of opening cab doors. Since it revolves in opposite directions depending on direction of travel (in DC mode at least) I wonder whether it's meant to suck or blow, since half the time it's doing one or the other?

 

Now that's enough, way too far off topic!

 

Kevin

[coachmann]

Penrith Beacon :

The Midland 3F was a real lift for me when I read that one was going to be introduced, but the mistakes in the tender frames and the splashers have really taken the gloss off. Fortunately I haven't yet actually bought the model and I'm wondering whether I ever will,

You say you haven't bought one, so I suggest you hold one in your hands...........You wont be dissapointed especially when you consider what you are getting for £50-odd smackeroos. Bachy can do as many 0-6-0's as it likes for this price, thank you...

[NickL2008]

Theres more wrong with the Hornby 56 than you might think but thats for another topic on the relevant thread, glad Bachmann are doing a Class 101 but no doubt thatll be of the BR green variant althoguh the Chassis might be of use

 

NL

[Pennine MC]

Regarding 'competition', or if you must have it 'duplication' (the sematics of which you are free to argue over as much as you like in your own time),

 

Exactly my point Kevin. By introducing your own definitions (valid though they may be, but also in a way that put people in a position where they might feel obliged to agree or disagree), you did rather lead people into the said argument. I could see it coming a mile off, which is why I chose to opt out.

 

I feel that's enough, as I may be censured for straying too far off-topic.

 

Agreed.

[newbryford]

I'm sure most of us have enough stock hidden away (unopened?) in boxes to keep us going for a year or ten to be not too worried if new issues, from whatever manufacturer, don't quite arrive when we want them to.

 

Peter

 

In many ways, I'm quite glad that the 2012/2013 range doesn't provide too much for my needs, as I can hopefully start work on the above mentioned hidden stock!

 

However, for others 2012/2013 is going to be expensive and long may Bachmann continue producing models - that across the board - somebody, but not everybody, wants...................

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Ravenser]

Regarding 'competition', or if you must have it 'duplication' (the sematics of which you are free to argue over as much as you like in your own time), I feel I can do no better than to quote Gareth Bayer in this month's Rail Express Modeller (on the subject of "Traxx" and "Eurosprinter") from the Nurnberg Toy Fair:-

 

"What was clear was that duplication of major models is not seen as an issue......". I can't say that I always agree with Gareth, but I believe he is spot on with this.

 

Re faults with the Hornby 56, I might mention the recessed "tea strainer" roof fans and the paper air horn covers just for starters. True, these can be relatively easily corrected by a competent modeller (thanks largely to Shawplan), but should this really be necessary in this day and age?

 

I feel that's enough, as I may be censured for straying too far off-topic.

 

Kevin

 

Four points here:

 

Firstly most of the main Continental HO manufacturers have been in administration at some time in the last decade. They are hardly where you look for case studies of commercial success in model railways

 

Secondly sales of Continental HO have fallen by alarming amounts (25%-30%) in the last decade and prices have reached extremely high levels, which are almost certainly inhibiting sales

 

Thirdly the Continental HO market - specifically the Germanic one - is much larger than ours, and because there normally only a few railway administrations/one state railway, the range of motive power was much much less

 

I think that a lot of the commercial woes of the Continental manufacturers are down to them having saturated the market - everything has been done, generally 3 times over , unit sales for any model are relatively low because of duplication , despite the larger market in terms of modellers and this has let to a vicious circle of diseconomies of scale, spiraling unit costs, and soaring prices which is slowly destroying the market and strangling RTR. The disease is so deeply entrenched that it is taken for granted

 

Fourthly Gareth Beyer (along with the rest of the REx team) has long campanied for manufacturers to duplicate each other in order to allow modellers to give a good commercial kicking to manufacturers who produce models which are seen as imperfect . This line was certainly promoted , I think by him, in respect of the Cl 37 (which shall we say clouded the reception of the Vi-Trains 37 with suspicion as to motives) and to my mind was what the "blood on their hands" editorial was about - though that almost certainly wasn't Gareth. My understanding has always been that REx wanted to see some models become damaging commercial failures in order to punish the manufacturer - and that was the whole basis for encouraging duplication.

 

To my mind that was a very unwise view , since either the failures would be evenly distributed - and the entire industry weakened, with a reduction in new tooling from manufacturers with poor bottom lines (coupled with the existing tooling covering fewer classes anyway) - or they would be unevenly distributed and someone would be driven out of the market , with a substantial reduction in choice as their whole range disappeared. I think such "aggressive consumerist" thinking was very much top of the boom froth , and the idea that there would always be enough demand for there to be all the manufacturers we want offering all the models we want is well past its sell-by date.

 

In these sober times, the idea that there might not be sufficient demand to sustain everyone in the style in which they wish to be accustomed bears revisiting. The collapse of Sandakan, the recent failure of another Chinese manufacturer. and the disappearance of the Heljan 86 (and possibly the Vi-Trains British range) suggests that ourt cup may not be guaranteed to run over, and that duplication may well be a bad idea

[birdseyecircus]

None of these are contemporary though. The debate was centred on inadequate models of present day diesels.

 

We have criticised the Bachmann 25 to the Nth degree, the Deltic's ride height and nose (most recently this is being aired on the DP2 thread) and the Peak Army have let their displeasure be known that the healed-up nose isn't in the catalogue. There are many people on here whose wish list is topped by the Highland Baby Sulzer, but we also know that the body makeover slot is currently occupied by the Class 40. And while the existing model is a steady seller, we don't know if Bachmann regard it as core - and hence we've been suggesting it playfully to Dapol, to name but one.

 

I'd agree with you about the 31, but the 56?

 

I thought classes 20/3 59 and 73 were all present day traction on Flask, Stone and Test trains.

 

Paul

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol

I am very surpised how few kit locos you have bearing in mind you make and sell them!! If I was in your position it would fell like xmas every day!!.

 

Sorry 7mm is not cheap or comaprable with 4mm prices IMHO !!

 

Mick,

 

so was I when I thought about it so I went and had a recount. Nine built, two in build, nine still in boxes. A total of twenty, so still not a lot but that's most of the LNWR locos available as a kit, excluding a few of the later ones that post date the layout.

 

Just to put the record straight, I don't make them - that's LRM's proprietors role. I don't have any financial involvement in LRM, I just design some of the kits and help out at shows.

 

Yes 7mm isn't as cheap as 4mm RTR, but there are still a lot of people doing it. Most of the big layouts which have a lot of investment nowadays are 4mm. So perhaps the 7mm modeller is content with a smaller stocklist. I definitely get the impression that quite a few of the 4mm RTR enthusiasts have reasonably big collections.

 

Jol

[Ravenser]

Mick,

 

so was I when I thought about it so I went and had a recount. Nine built, two in build, nine still in boxes. A total of twenty, so still not a lot but that's most of the LNWR locos available as a kit, excluding a few of the later ones that post date the layout.

 

Just to put the record straight, I don't make them - that's LRM's proprietors role. I don't have any financial involvement in LRM, I just design some of the kits and help out at shows.

 

Yes 7mm isn't as cheap as 4mm RTR, but there are still a lot of people doing it. Most of the big layouts which have a lot of investment nowadays are 4mm. So perhaps the 7mm modeller is content with a smaller stocklist. I definitely get the impression that quite a few of the 4mm RTR enthusiasts have reasonably big collections.

 

Jol

 

Jol:

 

The line you've taken is a very valid approach to the hobby - but it's certainly not the only one , and if it were it would severely restrict the hobby. If it's going to take 18month - 2 years per loco, it's going to be 6 years hard graft before you can have even a small layout , and if you want a large layout - forget it, life's not long enough. You couldn't model an LNWR main line - you'd need to be Melethuselah. And I don't see any reason why people shouldn't want to model Shap or the Chester & Holyhead in the Webb era - but should want to model the Amwlch branch in the same period....

 

In my own case, a modest layout needs say 7 items of traction in each of 2 periods - plus spares . At your rate of production, that would be over 2 decades work. I can't wait that long. I would quite like a rebuilt reengined Pacer and a 128 Parcels unit by July (painted, weathered, running) : the Pacer has just been picked up again after 2 years stalled, the SR Parcels van has taken an indecently long time (I might manage to finish before Hornby's Van B arrives) and also on the book case is a part built Bratchill 150/2 , which has effectively had everything below the floor replaced and bought out in , an interior concocted out of hacked up bits - lighting installation somehow fitted in - I need to replace the window frames with etches and install laser cut glazing and I haven't even thought of test running and fitting Kadees The person who was going to paint it for about £50 dropped out about 5 years ago.

 

And yesterday I wandered into a branch of Modelzone and there was a Bachmann Centro 150/1 which would fit my later period perfectly , beautifully finished in a livery I could never possibly do. I couldn't see the ticket but I know they're being discounted - maybe £80. The Bratchill kit alone was not far short -, before I started buying Beetles, Express Models lighting , NNK underframe castings, interior seat mouldings, jim s-w's etches, glazing etc. Meanwhile I bought one of Trains4U's 150/1s ayear ago - PH Designs seat silouhette etch , decoder and plug in Kadees installed , runs beautifully, working lights, beautifly finished and more accurate.

 

(Before you ask - I've just stuck the engine block on the second car of the Pacer after removing the black box, the engine drive shafts have gone in and these and the start of a C-Rail container are hardening on the bench...)

 

I don't need an L&Y tank (are they doing the Hughes or Aspinall version - all the photosin Bachmann's release seem to be of Belpaire locos not round boilered ones). I still think it's a bold initiative and hope it succeed (personally I'd thought if they went for pre grouping LMS tanks a Webb 2-4-2Tor 0-6-2T would have been more widespread and therefore asafer bet, but they've been very bold indeed)

 

 

 

Money may be tight over the next year or two but I suppose I'll have to have a J11 at some point as 40C had several (Along with N5s - I have second hand whitemetal kit, very nicely painted - but no rivets - so I only need someone to do a C12... Before you ask - I've had a 3mm scale BEC /3SMR kit for a J11 sat in the cupboard for a decade , and absolutely nothing has happened. It won't be as accurate as Bchmann either. If I had to kit built - I'd never have one)

[The Black Hat]

It's one thing feeling disappointed about not having something, but when some people come on here shouting the odds about not having anything to their tastes when some of them have had four region specific units released in the last two years with two impending, they start to sound a bit like Veruca Salt.

Me, I'm very happy with my first region-specific steam prototype since 1980 thanks. :-)

 

Dave.

 

Some of us to the south of you Max have not been as luck as you... I still await my beloved K1, Q6, J21, with the latter I expect coming from Bachmann, the K1 from the Red Box co.

 

Previously, at every Bachmann annoucement Ive unleashed the fury of my verbal arsenal to vent the frustration of engines not being made for the region I and others adore - the NER region up till end of steam. Ive wondered, dispaired and erupted at the notions and ideas that Bachmanns list dont match the ones Id like to see made. When times were good with massive annoucement lists for catalogues my broadsides in frustration were met by shock and dismay by some as everyone was expected to be happy. I think its pretty insulting to Bachmanns teams reputation and intelligence that we need to behave as sycophants to plead with them for the model we would like, and now, with reduced lists to clear backlogs and in a downturn those same voices now irronically call for their models to be given the preferncial treatment to be made, for the same reasons Id hold for mine. I have many reasons to back up the claims that the engines Id prefer would be good busisness for the Barwell made company, views I still hold, believe and defend, so in many ways I would prefer them to make the Northern workhorses that used to ply their trade up north, and in so doing, support Bachmanns future as THE best model railway manufacturing company.

 

But my wishes yet again have not mirrored those in Leicestershire that have done their research, and while others are fortunate to recieve the models they enjoy, again I feel lost in a wilderness desolate about the ignomy of being part of a minority seeminly ignored by many. We loyal few that remain still cling to the notion that one day that Bachmanns fortunes would mirror our own selections, and not that these might be produced in one go, but some over many years and slowly our region might gain a fleet that we could model. Others in recent years have been fortunate that their long waits have ended. They have been rewarded by their patience by an engine or two, those in Scotland being the obvious beneficaries this year. Others have been ones for overhead electric locomotives, or Southern modellers who wanted the third rail slam door stock to finish the pool of engines and trains in their region.

 

Bachmann are indeed market and pioneering leaders in this sector. DCC has been their vanguard of progress with detail and additions such as switches for lighting, and choice of prototypes linked to a balanced fleet of models across all time eras served, shows their think and know where the gaps are in the market. As a result, I would expect that the NER must feature somewhere on that list of possibilities the company could enter into, but they are the ones that do the market research and know the trade better than any contributor to this forum.

 

I wont deny, there are some elements on Bachmanns list that I enjoy, because of an interest in Modern Image, but that notion of modelling the North East, with an affordable fleet made by RTR, is looking ever distant so when those in Leicestershire sit reading this thread this year, this time round, Id hope timid silence on expressing my opinion is all the more thunderous overall.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol:

 

The line you've taken is a very valid approach to the hobby - but it's certainly not the only one , and if it were it would severely restrict the hobby. If it's going to take 18month - 2 years per loco, it's going to be 6 years hard graft before you can have even a small layout , and if you want a large layout - forget it, life's not long enough. You couldn't model an LNWR main line - you'd need to be Melethuselah. And I don't see any reason why people shouldn't want to model Shap or the Chester & Holyhead in the Webb era - but should want to model the Amwlch branch in the same period....

 

In my own case, a modest layout needs say 7 items of traction in each of 2 periods - plus spares . At your rate of production, that would be over 2 decades work. I can't wait that long. I would quite like a rebuilt reengined Pacer and a 128 Parcels unit by July (painted, weathered, running) : the Pacer has just been picked up again after 2 years stalled, the SR Parcels van has taken an indecently long time (I might manage to finish before Hornby's Van B arrives) and also on the book case is a part built Bratchill 150/2 , which has effectively had everything below the floor replaced and bought out in , an interior concocted out of hacked up bits - lighting installation somehow fitted in - I need to replace the window frames with etches and install laser cut glazing and I haven't even thought of test running and fitting Kadees The person who was going to paint it for about £50 dropped out about 5 years ago.

 

And yesterday I wandered into a branch of Modelzone and there was a Bachmann Centro 150/1 which would fit my later period perfectly , beautifully finished in a livery I could never possibly do. I couldn't see the ticket but I know they're being discounted - maybe £80. The Bratchill kit alone was not far short -, before I started buying Beetles, Express Models lighting , NNK underframe castings, interior seat mouldings, jim s-w's etches, glazing etc. Meanwhile I bought one of Trains4U's 150/1s ayear ago - PH Designs seat silouhette etch , decoder and plug in Kadees installed , runs beautifully, working lights, beautifly finished and more accurate.

 

(Before you ask - I've just stuck the engine block on the second car of the Pacer after removing the black box, the engine drive shafts have gone in and these and the start of a C-Rail container are hardening on the bench...)

 

I don't need an L&Y tank (are they doing the Hughes or Aspinall version - all the photosin Bachmann's release seem to be of Belpaire locos not round boilered ones). I still think it's a bold initiative and hope it succeed (personally I'd thought if they went for pre grouping LMS tanks a Webb 2-4-2Tor 0-6-2T would have been more widespread and therefore asafer bet, but they've been very bold indeed)

 

 

 

Money may be tight over the next year or two but I suppose I'll have to have a J11 at some point as 40C had several (Along with N5s - I have second hand whitemetal kit, very nicely painted - but no rivets - so I only need someone to do a C12... Before you ask - I've had a 3mm scale BEC /3SMR kit for a J11 sat in the cupboard for a decade , and absolutely nothing has happened. It won't be as accurate as Bchmann either. If I had to kit built - I'd never have one)

 

Ravenser,

 

what you don't know is the reason for the timescale to build those models. They were built some years ago (bar the curent two) while more recently I have been too heavily involved in designing and test building kits, display models and writing instructions. That was until I started doubling the size of the layout, which is now taken most of my modelling time. And that's why the next loco and tender kit (part designed at the moment) will be my last. I've also told LRM's proprietor to stop conning me into "just another little design job", like these 6 wheel underframes I am working on at present. Nothing is a little design job if you do it properly. So my speed of building models has been reasonably quick, but I haven't seen the benefits in my stock list.

 

Which L&Y Tank version. Well, experience says a Belpaire boiler version to accomodate the usual motor/chassis design. That's probably why they didn't go for an LNWR tank as they were all round top boilers.

 

Would my approach severely restrict the hobby? Well yes, if you go it alone. But with help it hasn't restricted Roy Jackson, John Holden, Tim Watson and the MRC (Copenhagen Fields - not much RTR on that) the L&WMRS (Clarendon) and many others.

 

Jol

[Mythocentric]

A very welcome addition in the form of the L&Y Aspinall 2-4-2T, (hopefully to include the extended bunker version?). Likewise the Class 101 which were the first signs of modernisation in my modelling area. The 4F also is welcome being the earlier built version with the injectors on the right-hand side of the boiler! Big disappointment in the lack of LMS suburban stock so it looks like it's back to kit-building here!

[Guest Phil]

Looks like all my money will be going to Hornby this year!

 

 

Good for you Richard

[newbryford]

Looks like all my money will be going to Hornby this year!

 

Mine's all mostly going to ESU!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[wombatofludham]

As for an Class 86, why on earth would Bachmann risk competing against both Heljan and Hornby models when there are others to go for first - e.g. an 81 or maybe an 87.

 

 

Well, Bachmann didn't shy away from competing with Hornby and Heljan on the 47, and seeing as a number of people have posted that Heljan have allegedly dropped the 86, and given that the 86 had a long life, several detail changes over the years, and a lot of livery options, frankly I think the market is still open for an 86 to the standard the Bachmann 85 looks to be achieving.

 

I agree an 81 would be wonderful, an 87 overdue, but the 86 was the most numerous and common AC type, so probably, if capable of being produced with the various detail mods over the years, ought to be commercially attractive - and there ought to be room for Hornby's model at the right price in the Railroad range, and possibly even Heljan's if they replace the roof mounted National Grid pylon with a pantograph and price it competitively, even though it is only really suitable for the late 90's on. There were 100 AL6's built after all which should allow for plenty of sales.

[brushman47544]

As far as I can recall, nobody has commented on the new Farish Bulleids in terms of their possible future appearance in OO. Clearly Bachmann thinks there's a market in N gauge, so a good place to start. Assuming we're looking at late 2013 before they're in the shops, we might see them follow in OO scale by 2015. Not too long and by then Bachmann's current Bulleids really will be ripe for replacement. And it also puts Hornby on notice. If you're planning to produce a range of Bulleids then do so soon or we'll (I.e. Bachmann) do them instead. Win win?

 

I'm surprised there's no BCK - maybe it'll be added later?

[Barry Rhys]

Looks like all my money will be going to Hornby this year!

 

 

Most of mine will be going on food, quite a bit on getting to work, and hopefully a little on some clothing.

 

I could tell everybody which manufacturer of digestive biscuits my money will be going to this year; but then, why should anyone give a toss, especially in a thread about new announcements from Bachmann?

 

Neil

 

 

*** Nooo, I can't resist it, I have to tell everybody what I'm going to spend my money on, especially since it's obviously a long interesting thread and I don't want to bother reading all the previous messages:

 

Looks like all my money will be going to McVITIES this year!

 

There, now I feel good. ***

[Andy C]

Looks like all my money will be going to Hornby this year!

 

I can just see the headlines now "Shares in Bachmann Industries drop through the floor"

 

Has this debate now run its course?