New announcements from Bachmann

[wombatofludham]

True, but people are really only concerned about their own layouts, and are entitled to be a little miffed if they dont get what they want. I am pleased that many people will get some decent stuff but for me there is little - had there been a 4 SUB or 4 EPB or even better a 2 HAP, I'd have bought several over the course of the year...but cant so a cheap year!

 

Oddly enough I still think the announcements are good even though I didn't get a 304 or 310 EMU, or an 86! The two LNER locos will be of little use to me but I welcome them as being a further move towards less glamorous locos, and whilst the LMS Compound and 4F are spot on for me, I personally would have preferred a LNWR 2-4-2 tank - but still warmly welcome the Lanky Tank as it again is a particularly left field yet welcome addition.

 

I think what I take from Bachmann's announcement is not an air of disappointment some of my wants haven't materialised but an air of surprised optimism that Bachmann have invested so heavily at a time of economic doubt in new models, mainly of everyday or less glamorous examples and also are continuing to upgrade older but still reasonable models to DCC capability, re-release a number of models that have been off the shelf for too long and that gives me hope that in the next few years some of the stuff I'd quite like might just make it into production.

[farren]

i have been on a forum run by one of makers of RTR ( not to sure about rules) but you can work out which one, and i am going to break a rule i try to stick too after seeing it brock by others as in talking about next years list on the day that this years as just come out.

 

i am more the pleacs with the new models that are due out over the next 18 mouths or so but i see some of the SR fans are not happy though i think that next year will be much better as Bachmanns GF have said they are doing a AS built MN class and can see that that will be turn into OO model next time.

 

thats it i stay contated about this years anouncements for now and save up for all my new ex-lms locos i would like

[Pennine MC]

True, but people are really only concerned about their own layouts,

 

Are they? I dont know how many of these 'people' you speak for, but it's certainly not everybody. I've no intention of buying, for instance, the L&Y tank, but it still pleases me that I'll be seeing them on the layouts of others, at shows or in the mags.

 

I think what I take from Bachmann's announcement is not an air of disappointment some of my wants haven't materialised but an air of surprised optimism that Bachmann have invested so heavily at a time of economic doubt in new models, mainly of everyday or less glamorous examples and also are continuing to upgrade older but still reasonable models to DCC capability, re-release a number of models that have been off the shelf for too long and that gives me hope that in the next few years some of the stuff I'd quite like might just make it into production.

 

Wombat is on the money here AFAIC - it's about looking at the bigger picture and reading trends. Too many folk look at a given year's announcements as self contained, like a sort of one year 'capsule' - the reality, I think, will be more like a rolling programme, a long list of projects at various stages of study or development, with fresh possibilities constantly being evaluated.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol

I agree re your point re pricing, very hard times for kit makers.

Sadly being realistic RTR is taking over simply because of the current quality , price and types available. e.g how may kits of A2, A3 and A4's are now bought . They are simply not viable to most people, to consider buying in comparison to the RTR versions. I have/had kit versions and they were not even close to the quality of the RTR versions.

In the short term I cannot seeing it changing unless RTR suffers from huge price hikes at which point it would probably die from lack of support.

 

Regarding 7mm, this is a rich/well off mans game, how many can afford between £300 and £500 or more for one Loco I know I couldnt or evn think of spending that much for a Loco . It hasnt been popular RTR scale since the 1950's when 4mm took over and I cant see that changing in the short or even long term. How many people living in modern house have space for a 4mm layout let alone 7mm. There is simply not enough demand to affect prices or any big boy competition either.

 

cheers

Mick

 

Mick,

 

for many 4mm modellers what you say is undoubtedly correct. However, for those that wish to produce the model railway that they want, rather than what RTR products allow them to do, the availability of the wide choice of models available from the kit manufacturers makes their hobby possible. In my case there is nothing for the LNWR and even if Bachmann had produced a North Western 2-4-2T, one loco doesn't sufficiently represent a railway. That's especially the case when their is no matching carriage stock to go with it. Can you ever see fully liveried LNWR carriages available RTR?

 

As for 7mm being a rich man's pastime, the 7mm modellers that I know would robustly refute that. The number of kits and manufacturers in 7mm would also seem to prove otherwise.

 

The big layouts we see these days, Retford, The Gresley Beat, Dewsbury Midland and Liverpool Lime Street are just a few examples, are usually 4mm and often feature a high proportion of kit or scratch built models to more accurately portray the railway scene they represent.

 

I have eight kit built locos at the moment, with about the same number still in their boxes, amassed over fifteen years. Assuming a total cost per kit of £150, that would be on a par with a RTR collection of about twice that number. How many users of RTR models have a collection of thirty two locos, bought over the same period? Quite a lot, I should imagine. I read one post yesterday where the writer said he would probably be buying six to eight of the new introductions over the next twelve months. I don't think he is on his own.

 

Where will RTR prices go? If the Chinese economy continues to enjoy/suffer from wage increases and their currency is allowed to become stronger, then prices will increase. However, the manufacturers will shift their production outsourcing to other cheap economies, so you will be spared to some degree.

 

Perhaps I could be seen as perverse in creating the model that I want (although I am not alone in that pursuit), rather than that which Bachmann and Co enable me to do. For me, the research, planning and building that model - including the locos and rolling stocks - is where the satisfaction lies.

 

Jol

[Mr.S.corn78]

Hi all,

 

on a positive note, at least i won't have to build one loco for the L&Y layout that i have.

 

but its a pity i will have to do quite a bit of work to the 47/7 if they keep it like it is from pics that i have seen to have it correct.

 

Other than that, its what i thought would happen.

 

cheers

Simon

[Andy C]

Have those who have decried the lack of their various things - and I'll bravely mentioned the Southern here - stopped to think that a sensible business decision by any company would be after a surfeit of one genre over a year or two, to let that rest for a while so people, given the recession, dont have to spend for a bit and can get a bit of capital together for the next inevitable tranche.

[The Stationmaster]

True, but people are really only concerned about their own layouts, and are entitled to be a little miffed if they dont get what they want. I am pleased that many people will get some decent stuff but for me there is little - had there been a 4 SUB or 4 EPB or even better a 2 HAP, I'd have bought several over the course of the year...but cant so a cheap year!

But surely, as Pennine has said, we should also be concerned about the broader church of what is being offered. An L&Y radial - which has never figured in a high place in poll results - is a brave step and one which is to be commended and will I hope be commercially successful in opening a further market area in R-T-R. As others have said - Bachmann should be congratulated for their boldness, particularly in these straitened times.

 

And to be horribly blunt none of us are 'entitled' to be miffed - to any extent - unless we don't get get what we have paid for. If you want to ensure that Bachmann or any other manufacturer makes exactly what you want you have a very simple answer - pay them to do it for you and you take the commercial risk of marketing it. And don't forget the golden rule of selling - put too many of anything into the market and demand is spread and price and/or sales will be weakened. Maybe Bachmann have decided that a couple of more traditional 3rd rail emus is enough for the time being and that they should be developing other market areas?

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I'm sure most of us have enough stock hidden away (unopened?) in boxes to keep us going for a year or ten to be not too worried if new issues, from whatever manufacturer, don't quite arrive when we want them to.

 

Peter

[Guest Phil]

Oddly enough I still think the announcements are good even though I didn't get a 304 or 310 EMU, or an 86! The two LNER locos will be of little use to me but I welcome them as being a further move towards less glamorous locos, and whilst the LMS Compound and 4F are spot on for me, I personally would have preferred a LNWR 2-4-2 tank - but still warmly welcome the Lanky Tank as it again is a particularly left field yet welcome addition.

 

I think what I take from Bachmann's announcement is not an air of disappointment some of my wants haven't materialised but an air of surprised optimism that Bachmann have invested so heavily at a time of economic doubt in new models, mainly of everyday or less glamorous examples and also are continuing to upgrade older but still reasonable models to DCC capability, re-release a number of models that have been off the shelf for too long and that gives me hope that in the next few years some of the stuff I'd quite like might just make it into production.

Are they? I dont know how many of these 'people' you speak for, but it's certainly not everybody. I've no intention of buying, for instance, the L&Y tank, but it still pleases me that I'll be seeing them on the layouts of others, at shows or in the mags.

 

 

 

Wombat is on the money here AFAIC - it's about looking at the bigger picture and reading trends. Too many folk look at a given year's announcements as self contained, like a sort of one year 'capsule' - the reality, I think, will be more like a rolling programme, a long list of projects at various stages of study or development, with fresh possibilities constantly being evaluated.

 

Have to agree with both of you.

Perhaps if some of the posters on here looked beyond the names, numbers and colours of Bachmann's newly programme, they'd notice a theme for at least some stuff.

 

Modern image - well that depends how modern you want it, but how many 25Kv models have we seen in the last five years ? Wombat didn't we get a new 86 a few years ago ? Yeah OK, most hardcore modellers find it worse than Hornby's offering (me included) but it is a new 25Kv model.

 

Earlier in the thread it has been pointed that everything diesel has been done - 37, 56, 58, 60, 66 ,67 and 70, as well as 90, 91 and 92.

 

Multiple units - every since Bachmann released the 108, things have just rolled on. Who at that time would have predicted Cravens, DLW and Met Camm, as well as CEP, EPB, MLV and 350 in probably a little over five years.

 

Going back just a little in time to a different age of "modern image" - SEVEN different duffs - come on guys !!!

 

Steam. How obscure do you actually want it to be ? I admit to being a Bachmannphile, but would you have expected a D11 or a Lanky tank from Hornby ? After all, they couldn't even be bothered to retool the 4F. And what is the betting the brand new Barwell 4F will still retail for less than the "breathed over" 20 odd year old model from Hornby ?

 

We have been craving 0-6-0s and anonymous little engines instead of "big wheelers". Well Bachmann's message to me is "here's a pile more of the trend we started a few years ago".

 

Reality wake up time for a few RMwebbers I feel - get the trend - look beyond the numbers and shapes !!!

 

 

Question though - does the Ivatt 2MT tank get the new chassis in the production version of what Coachman did a couple of years ago ? If so then that'll be added to my list as something like 41228.

[S.A.C Martin]

And what is the betting the brand new Barwell 4F will still retail for less than the "breathed over" 20 odd year old model from Hornby ?

 

50/50 I'd say. There was a rumoured price rise for Bachmann yesterday (although to be fair I could only find it on the REX website), but even if they retail around the same price - there's still no comparison with a new Bachmann 4F to the Hornby 4F, surely - particularly when you consider the detail differences Bachmann have said they will do.

 

The D11 must be a case in point of a "rolling program" - first we have seen of it is a painted pre-production sample (once again, thank you Andy). This forward thinking from Bachmann instills confidence for the future.

 

I was very happy with Hornby's announcements of the O1 and the Thompson non-corridors, and will support those - but I take the arguments, and agree with them, that Hornby's accouncements have a completely different slant to Bachmann's. Is that not an indication of the thrilling times we live in? It is a golden age.

 

Who would have predicted a D11, J11 and a Lanky Tank being announced all in the same year, never mind year on year!

[DerekEm8]

Whilst it is agreed that Bachmann actively support modellers (and collectors) significant sales must be to the 'train set' market and whilst units of various types obviously sell there must be a saturation point. As Andy C says above flooding the market with various accurate or otherwise(Southern) units over a very short period of time must surely have done some damage sales-wise to what is a fairly limited (geographical) market for these products.

I know that my grandson prefers locos of any kind to units. (a limited survey I know but a 100% result)

[reevesthecat]

Is anyone going this afternoon by the way and will you ask how the desiro has sold?

 

Incidentally what is wrong about feeling disappointed by this years announcements, I am disappointed there is no new 25kv model but understand the 85 hasn't reached market yet and the desiro is still fairly new on the shelves so it is a bit early. However I would think people are entitled to feel disappointed if they wish but a few seem to have been shot at for it. I do agree no-one can really justify miffed Bachmann didn't promise to produce something specifically for them!

Just a thought

mark

[Guest Max Stafford]

It's one thing feeling disappointed about not having something, but when some people come on here shouting the odds about not having anything to their tastes when some of them have had four region specific units released in the last two years with two impending, they start to sound a bit like Veruca Salt.

Me, I'm very happy with my first region-specific steam prototype since 1980 thanks. :-)

 

Dave.

[big jim]

Couple of things in there for me so im happy, the colas and gbrf 66s are a must, im just glad they didnt announce a 172 unit after all the work ive put into my chiltern and LM conversions!

 

Dcc ready 158s are a bonus too, no liveries i want but at least they are ready to roll now, wonder if they will change the lights from bulbs to led?

[Andy Y]

Is anyone going this afternoon by the way and will you ask how the desiro has sold?

 

I've already asked about this; initial orders to retail were good but it's still early days for them to have had feedback to assess it's popularity on the retailers shelves, particularly as one of the more popular liveries (London Midland) has only just shipped.

[brushman47544]

I really don't think we can have expected much more in the way of new diesel and electric models at this time. As others have pointed out, there a very few prototypes left to do, so new models would almost certainly be competing against older versions. And we are, apparently, a fickle bunch when it comes to replacing older models with those using new tooling. They really have to be a big step up in detail and accuracy and even that is no guarantee. So until Bachmann sees how well the Class 85 sells I can't see development starting on another electric loco, so that would be at least a couple of years away. As for an Class 86, why on earth would Bachmann risk competing against both Heljan and Hornby models when there are others to go for first - e.g. an 81 or maybe an 87.

 

I too had hoped for a BEP, but perhaps their MU development teams have been too busy with the Desiro, EPB and Kernow Class 205, so it has had to wait. I'm equally sure a 2-HAP will follow the Class 205 and the SWT Desiro will appear eventually as well. But in my opinion they're all too soon after the first models for Bachmann to assess potential sales.

 

The Scotrail 47/7 as a standard release explains the non-appearance of the L/E proposed by Durham Trains of Stanley. I have to applaud this, although neither this nor the NSE version are of interest to me. But the green D1677 Thor is. But what form will it take I wonder. It is described as yellow ends, so presumably FYE rather than SYP. This should also mean Sercks - I don't think I've seen any photos of FYE still with fixed three part grills, although there may well have been some. But is so a strange choice perhaps as we've already had one of these, but still no green SYP or blue with headcodes with Sercks. I suppose we'll get them eventually....hopefully...

 

Of more interest (and concern to me as I already have the earlier green FYE version) is whether Thor will have a new cab without the Class 57 window rivets. They will have to go for me to buy another FYE. Does the catalogue number give a hint they will, I wonder? All the 31-65x Class 47s, including L/Es, have been without them - if the same as the previous versiosn surely it would have been coded 32-8xx as before? Or am I ready too much into Bachmann's product coding?

 

The reappearance at last of the Mk2 TSOs in Blue/Grey is welcome, and with two different numbers as well. In a way this was not unexpected because the production run could be added to the current Kernow MRC limited editions with Network SouthEast and Scotrail branding. So I think we will see them sooner rather than later. For that reason I also think that unfortunately the livery error over the positioning of the white lining below the windows will not be corrected. But at least they'll match the existing coaches.

 

As for 'Chard's Highland Baby Sulzer, I always thought it would appear at some point by Bachmann marrying the Class 24 body with a tweaked Class 25/1 cab. Or are there simply too many differences - air horns I know for one. The Class 24s and 25s have been good sellers based on the numbers of different versions we've seen over the years but we've not seen any new cab tooling. Compare that with the Class 37 - how many different cab variants have they produced over the years? And wouldn't a 24/1 cab also give them a 25/0?.

 

47301 looks nice from the photographs at the bottom of the page be nice for it to come without a name!! http://www.railexclu...hp?category=114

 

47301 is a strange choice in some ways. The white line above the red stripe (as shown on the photo posted elsewhere) and the large numbers will certainly make it difficult to turn it into a standard red stripe railfreight loco, so unless you want a Thornaby loco (to go with all those Rail Exclusive L/E 37s perhaps?) it may hang around on retailers shelves longer than a standard liveried version would.

 

What chances are there of centre cars for the 101's at a later date? Also what betting that a NSE 101 will be the Collectors Club model next year...

 

Like others have said, I'm sure a 3-car version will follow in due course - I will be after a Blue/Grey one when it does, as then ran on the Reading-Redhill-Gatwick/Tonbridge services.

 

 

Anybody else noticed that the LMS Twins have disappeared from the Modern Image Locos Product List on Bachmann's website? Just a mistake??

 

Yes and No. For some reason they are (and always have been?) listed on the steam locomotives products page. Does Bachmann know something nobody else does, perhaps to make them different from the Dapol ones?

[Oldddudders]

I too had hoped for a BEP, but perhaps their MU development teams have been too busy with the Desiro, EPB and Kernow Class 205, so it has had to wait.

I'm not sure I'd be betting much on a BEP in the near future. The CEP has clearly sold well - but not everyone has the layout space for an 8-car, and the BEPs didn't really spend all that much time running on their own. On the Central it was pretty much Barnham - Bognor Regis, which isn't far! They tended to be the support act in 8- and 12-car formations, which is why there were only 22 of them. The fact that we think this is a model that doesn't need much work to produce is very different from saying it would sell well without simply taking away from CEP sales. In short - what's in it for Bachmann?

[surfsup]

Couple of things in there for me so im happy, the colas and gbrf 66s are a must, im just glad they didnt announce a 172 unit after all the work ive put into my chiltern and LM conversions!

 

Dcc ready 158s are a bonus too, no liveries i want but at least they are ready to roll now, wonder if they will change the lights from bulbs to led?

 

 

That i think, will be an interesting one and quite a case of wait and see - I think the excuse given a couple of years ago was that as the 158 and 170s are older tooling’s, Bachmann couldn’t modify them to work with DCC, and rail exclusive seems to hint that it may be a new 158 in the offering, So will it be new or modified?

 

...The revamped 'Whistler' expected no sooner than the year end. We missed that the Class 158 is now being completely retooled to replace existing model and is seen as a core item...

.

[southernelectric]

Quite a varied selection from Bachmann, and no doubt many are pleased. But as a Southern modeller I am a little dissappointed. I was hoping with all fingers crossed that they might have continued the " Bluebell Railway

theme ", and anounced an Adams Radial tank. Perhaps Kernow will take this one up.

 

Cheers all,

Chris

 

I was too a little disappointed to not see more SR stuff - but in my case slam-door EMUs. I really did think we'd see more coming after the awesome 2-EPBs and 4-CEPs.

[iL Dottore]

Overall, very little for me as a GWR modeller, although I'll be eyeing the Pendon RTR buildings with interest. However, given that Bachmann has to reach an awfully high standard of modelling (Pendon standards!), and given my experience of the inconsistencies between the pre-production model and the production model I have observed in some Scenecraft offerings, I won't be making any advance orders and will need to see them "in the flesh" before considering purchase.

 

Let's spare a thought for those kit manufacturers who've just seen one or more of their products take a nosedive in 2012 et seq sales. These are the people - the smaller suppliers - who we all laud, but they must suffer on such a day. I'm not clever enough to know all the firms involved today, but probably Parkside Dundas can now expect their range of Southern passenger vans to be gathering dust.

 

I think that there will still be a market for kits - even those kits of newly available RTR models for the following reasons:

 

1) Some modellers enjoy buidling kits (the RTR horsboxes won't see me binning my horsebox kits)

2) Production realities/necessities, RTR models have compromises, cannibalising a kit is a way to address some of those compromises

3) Following the earlier Hornby announcements and now Bachmann's, I note that whilst there are now a lots of lovely "state of the art" locomotives to pull things, there isn't as much emphasis on "state of the art" things to pull. Kits do, and will continue to, provide things to pull

 

I agree that it is a challenge to produce a kit to the current RTR standards of finish (especially locomotives), but not impossible - especially for goods stock (which, I would argue, is not as well served by RTR as it could optimally be)

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to a] the Duke Dog and b] the City class (which means I won't have to butcher my City of Truro) - perhaps the appropriate rolling stock will come along next year?

 

F

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I'm not sure I'd be betting much on a BEP in the near future. The CEP has clearly sold well - but not everyone has the layout space for an 8-car, and the BEPs didn't really spend all that much time running on their own. On the Central it was pretty much Barnham - Bognor Regis, which isn't far! They tended to be the support act in 8- and 12-car formations, which is why there were only 22 of them. The fact that we think this is a model that doesn't need much work to produce is very different from saying it would sell well without simply taking away from CEP sales. In short - what's in it for Bachmann?

 

Ah, fond memories travelling in a BEP between Barnham and Bognor - those lovely individual wooden chairs and dim lighting.

 

If someone really wanted a BEP, couldn't they convert a CEP? Or does everyone like it being handed to them on a plate nowadays?

 

Peter

[apollo 079]

Modern image - well that depends how modern you want it, but how many 25Kv models have we seen in the last five years ? Wombat didn't we get a new 86 a few years ago ? Yeah OK, most hardcore modellers find it worse than Hornby's offering (me included) but it is a new 25Kv model.

 

Earlier in the thread it has been pointed that everything diesel has been done - 37, 56, 58, 60, 66 ,67 and 70, as well as 90, 91 and 92.

 

 

Sorry Phil but I must take issue with this. "Done", you say, but to whose satisfaction? Not even your own by your comment on the Heljan 86. Are you saying that because Hornby produces versions of classes 59, 73, 87, 90, 91 and 92 that there is no market for a better (if higher-priced) model?

 

I beg to differ on this point. Let us take the matter ot the AC electric. Is it really the case that we do not need/want a better quality model of (for example) class 87 or 90?

 

As some will be aware from my recent postings on ViTrains models, I occasionally dabble in Italian railways. Now it is true that (compared with Britain) FS system has a high proportion of electrification, but nevertheless every major class (and sub-class) of electric locomotive which runs or has run on the state railway in the past 30 years is currently available in quality rtr form. Take the example of the E444 class, known as the "Tartaruga" (Turtle). Introduced in the early 1970s, it was designed to run at 200 kmh, and was the Italian equivalent of the Class 87 in those days. Almost the whole class was completely re-built in the 1990 with a new body shape, which became E444R, effectively becoming the equivalent of a class 90. You will not be surprised to know that high quality models of both of these variants have been produced. What may surprise is that they are available from three different manufacturers, namely ACME, Rivarossi and Roco. The ranges also cover all of the livery variants which the re-built locos have carried so far.

 

It is true that these models will give you little (or more like no) change from £200, but maybe that's the point. Are us "post-steam" era(s) modellers prepared to accept the lack-lustre products being set before us (the Heljan 86 being just one example), or are we prepared to put our money where our collective mouths are, and get the sort of product which our continental (and US, Australian, Japanese etc...) cousins have come to expect?

 

Also, isn't it time for a bit more competition between the major players in the market? If the attitude of "well so-and-so produces such-and-such" prevails, then we get nowhere. Surely if my Italian experience proves anything it's that competition often results in a better product (if not always a lower price). As an aside, Lima also produces a variant of the E444 in its 'Hobby Line' range, but this has been discounted as being more or less a 'toy' (not unlike the Hornby 87?).

 

Although I don't model overhead on my UK layout, I have ordered two Class 85s because I have fond memories of them, and also because I hope it will encourage Bachmann to head down the "electric avenue" (with apologies to Eddy Grant and the citizens of Brixton).

 

Kevin

['CHARD]

Sorry Phil but I must take issue with this. "Done", you say, but to whose satisfaction? Not even your own by the tone of your comments. Are you saying that because Hornby produces versions of classes 59, 73, 87, 90, 91 and 92 that there is no market for a better (if higher-priced) model?

 

I beg to differ on this point. Let us take the matter ot the AC electric. Is it really the case that we do not need/want a better quality model of (for example) class 87 or 90?

 

It is true that these models will give you little (or more like no) change from £200, but maybe that's the point. Are us "post-steam" era(s) modellers prepared to accept the lack-lustre products being set before us (the Heljan 86 being just one example), or are we prepared to put our money where our collective mouths are, and get the sort of product which our continental (and US, Australian, Japanese etc...) cousins have come to expect?

 

Although I don't model overhead on my UK layout, I have ordered two Class 85s because I have fond memories of them, and also because I hope it will encourage Bachmann to head down the "electric avenue" (with apologies to Eddy Grant and the citizens of Brixton).

 

Quite so - but almost by your own admission, demand for electric traction is notoriously difficult for the manufacturers to prejudge, hence my definition earlier in the thread of the Bachmann Class 85 as its barometer release. The case is beyond doubt that contemporary diesel locos have now been covered or announced in one or other RTR range.

 

I was too a little disappointed to not see more SR stuff - but in my case slam-door EMUs. I really did think we'd see more coming after the awesome 2-EPBs and 4-CEPs.

 

You're not interested in a Thumper then, due from Bachmann later this year; I find that surprising. As has been said above, the majors tend to rest regions for a while after there's been a big splurge, whilst there's still shelf-stock and possibly little casual demand, that way to build up a better head of demand from the - in this case - juice-rail devotees, ready for announcements or additions in 2015 say.

[DLPG]

Still living in hope for a Q6, J27 & J21, A8 as the cherry on the top! Nevermind the 4F will be far better than the Hornby refurb and that will come in useful for my new layout of Seamer.

 

The Fish vans will also be useful and add to my rake of Parkside kits. Glad Hornby came up trumps with the Thompson 01

[Pennine MC]

Also, isn't it time for a bit more competition between the major players in the market? If the attitude of "well so-and-so produces such-and-such" prevails, then we get nowhere. Surely if my Italian experience proves anything it's that competition often results in a better product (if not always a lower price).

 

For 'competition', read 'duplication', and get ready to pick the bones out of the ensuing semantics. It's a brave man who kicks that debate off.