Scaleforum 2012

[10800]

Why, what happens after you've had a double brandy?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Why, what happens after you've had a double brandy?

 

You become an EM modeller.

Well it works for me.

 

Mike.

[PenrithBeacon]

I'm trying to decide whether to go or not. I've just had a look at the S4 Soc's website and it lists ten or so layouts, oodles of traders, and a few demonstrators. Are there any lectures planned?

 

From a very personal point of view, 10 layouts is about 10 light, I have more than enough stuff in storage boxes so I really don't need traders (and in any case most vendors will supply by post) and experience suggests that when there are just a few demonstrators, those demos tend to be always occupied.

 

Hence my interest in lectures; are there going to be any?

 

Regards

[chrisf]

Is there no air show this weekend? That was your excuse last year.

 

Chris

[Horsetan]

Why, what happens after you've had a double brandy?

 

You become an EM modeller.

Well it works for me.

 

Traitor!!

[Flymo748]

I'm trying to decide whether to go or not. I've just had a look at the S4 Soc's website and it lists ten or so layouts, oodles of traders, and a few demonstrators. Are there any lectures planned?

 

From a very personal point of view, 10 layouts is about 10 light, I have more than enough stuff in storage boxes so I really don't need traders (and in any case most vendors will supply by post) and experience suggests that when there are just a few demonstrators, those demos tend to be always occupied.

 

Hence my interest in lectures; are there going to be any?

Hi David,

 

No, there won't be any lectures. We've taken the effort to progressively increase the number and scope of the demonstrators each year so that we can cover a broader range of interests, and have a greater "throughput" of people chatting during the weekend.

 

Why don't you come along and see if they are as busy as you fear. I'm sure that they won't be, and if you want that genuine "lecture" experience you can stand at the back and listen to the demonstrator talking to someone else :-)

 

Cheers

Paul Willis

Deputy Chairman

[Flymo748]

The Scalefour Society is pleased to announce that we have been able to fill the trade space caused by the withdrawal of Exactoscale.

 

The trader coming is new to Scaleforum and is R.G. Connor Signs and Graphics.

 

They make full size signs (ie not to 4mm scale) and appear to have found a popular line in making lookalike totem station name signs. The trader contacted the organising team earlier this week on the off-chance to ask about space, having been successful at the recent Gauge O Guild show at Telford and also at the Epsom and Ewell Club show earlier in the year.

 

Could be a way of getting that exclusive name board for your layout? Signs are made while you wait.

 

Come along this weekend to Leatherhead and have a look...

 

Cheers

Paul Willis

Deputy Chairman

[jjnewitt]

I'm trying to decide whether to go or not. I've just had a look at the S4 Soc's website and it lists ten or so layouts, oodles of traders, and a few demonstrators. Are there any lectures planned?

 

From a very personal point of view, 10 layouts is about 10 light, I have more than enough stuff in storage boxes so I really don't need traders (and in any case most vendors will supply by post) and experience suggests that when there are just a few demonstrators, those demos tend to be always occupied.

 

Hence my interest in lectures; are there going to be any?

 

Regards

 

I think 7 P4, 1 P87 and 1 2mm layout isn't too bad. 20 P4 layouts in one place would be a lot and you'd end up with the same layouts year after year. In addition to the layouts listed Jon Newham has his model of Liara there as a work in progress.

 

In my copy of the Scaleforum guide that came with the Scalefour News I counted 13 demonstrators covering a wide range of topics which is certainly more than a 'few'.

 

Edfited for spelling!

[Horsetan]

The Scalefour Society is pleased to announce that we have been able to fill the trade space caused by the withdrawal of Exactoscale.

 

The trader coming is new to Scaleforum and is R.G. Connor Signs and Graphics.

 

They make full size signs (ie not to 4mm scale) and appear to have found a popular line in making lookalike totem station name signs. The trader contacted the organising team earlier this week on the off-chance to ask about space, having been successful at the recent Gauge O Guild show at Telford and also at the Epsom and Ewell Club show earlier in the year.

 

I think he was next to me at the Southend show last year.... I got him to do a sign for an artist friend of mine.

 

Amazing little computer, too.

[PenrithBeacon]

Is there no air show this weekend? That was your excuse last year.

 

Chris

Scaleforum is a week later this year, it normally clashes with the Shuttleworth Collection's last Evening Air Display and the Severn Valley Railway's Autumn Steam Gala; both of these events are well worth a visit and this year the Shuttleworth got my vote because it was the last, and for me the only, time I could see the 'new' RE.8 and Albatros D.Va flying. Both have now been retired to the RAFM Hendon, never to fly again.

 

I must say that I'm astonished that you can remember my post of last year - I'm amazed it made such an impression, but, to my great regret, the same reservations about Scaleforum seem to apply. That is not enough layouts, too many traders and not enough peripheral events such as lectures. With so many highly skilled and experienced modellers present I would have thought that some could have been persuaded to give a talk on a matter of interest. It certainly used to be the case, but I understand that a different team now has charge of producing the show, perhaps they have differing ideas as what it is that makes an outstanding model railway exhibition. Their current concept seem to flow along the lines of it being, essentially, a trade convention rather than a model railway exhibition which is, for me, unfortunate because I disagree and I really don't want to spend time or petrol at £1.39 per litre for such an event.

 

I'm sure you will enjoy Scaleforum, or at least I hope you do, but it really isn't for me.

 

Regards

[Kenton]

I think 7 P4, 1 P87 and 1 2mm layout isn't too bad. 20 P4 layouts in one place would be a lot and you'd end up with the same layouts year after year. In addition to the layouts listed Jon Newham has his model of Liara there as a work in progress.

 

I am another who thinks 10 is a bit on the light side for what I have always considered a key expo in the year. I do have a particular problem with a 2mm exhibit at a Sale 4 show and the exclusion of other 4mm layouts in other gauges. But then I always attend for the trade, though this year my list seems incredibly short .

 

I used to enjoy the odd lecture though more as a rest for my legs than the content, though not to put them down, they were often more enjoyable and thought provoking than expected.

 

Demos, well I've mixed feelings. They must be incredibly difficult to target at the level of knowledge of the person sitting on the public side. I've sat in on some pretty poor ones. Trying to teach me to solder when obviously I already knew that and was more interested in how mechanisms were working; or the assumption I was knowledgeable in weathering when all I was interested in was some basics. But as said difficult to target the audience in such a small period of time. The issue with having many demos is that most folk are probably not interested in all of them and some of them seem to get crowded out. You also get the odd one who is just chatting away to a 'friend' rather than demonstrating to those who need instruction.

 

I'll still be attending this year, despite or perhaps because of the above. I also expect I will still enjoy the experience.

[Allegheny1600]

Surely it's about the content and the quality of the layouts that counts, rather than the numbers?

If you want lots of layouts (& crowds to match!) - you go to the Warley's or Ally-Pally's and if you want quality (of layouts, trade AND personnel!) you go to the 'society' shows!

Sorry I can't make it to Leatherhead as it's just too far for me but that's my two cents.

Cheers,

John E.

[Captain Kernow]

I do have a particular problem with a 2mm exhibit at a Sale 4 show and the exclusion of other 4mm layouts in other gauges.

 

Well, Kenton, given that the whole hierachy of the Scalefour Society will be present over the weekend, I'm sure you will be able to find one of them, who could discuss your concerns about the 2mm layout (and presumably the 3.5mm layout as well?) in person, hopefully to explain why it's considered worthwhile.

 

I also expect I will still enjoy the experience.

 

Sincerely hope you still find it a good show.

[Horsetan]

...Sale 4......I always attend for the trade......

 

Strangely appropriate typo.

[Kenton]

Well, Kenton, given that the whole hierarchy of the Scalefour Society will be present over the weekend, I'm sure you will be able to find one of them, who could discuss your concerns about the 2mm layout (and presumably the 3.5mm layout as well?) in person, hopefully to explain why it's considered worthwhile.

 

I was not in the slightest being derogatory of the 2mm layout or any other scale layout that will be there - It is a Scale 4 expo and as such it should represent only scale 4 (in all its variations). I similarly go to a 7mm expo to see 7mm layouts in all their variants, NG show ... etc. and Railex + many others for the broad mix of everything. I consider 10 layouts at this show to be only a couple short and also understand the fact that large layouts take up much more of the available space. On that my preference is for small layouts though I do like to see a couple of the big ones.

 

Assuming the halls have not changed, I seem to recall that upstairs used to be a good mix of trade, demos and a few small layouts, while downstairs was an aisle of demos, the rest of the trade and the larger layouts. I do think 20 would make it very crowded, it just seems that 10 is a little on the low side.

 

Though I guess my comments should follow the experience of tomorrow.

[R A Watson]

I have been following this topic since it started and often wondered why people posted to express their reasons for objecting to attending what is after all a voluntary gathering.

 

Having booked months in advance train tickets and accommodation I set off this morning to meet my companion for a long anticipated weekend, but twenty three minutes and about four hundred yards away from the train my body told me that as a result of the mini stroke I had a few months ago it did not want to undertake the journey.

 

Now I am back at home resting and my companion is going solo to the show including visiting the fleshpots of Leatherhead tonight alone, not a very good result in all.

 

Would any of the naysayers like to change places so I can go to the ball?

 

To the rest of the attenders all I can say is enjoy yourselves.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I have been following this topic since it started and often wondered why people posted to express their reasons for objecting to attending what is after all a voluntary gathering.

 

Having booked months in advance train tickets and accommodation I set off this morning to meet my companion for a long anticipated weekend, but twenty three minutes and about four hundred yards away from the train my body told me that as a result of the mini stroke I had a few months ago it did not want to undertake the journey.

 

Now I am back at home resting and my companion is going solo to the show including visiting the fleshpots of Leatherhead tonight alone, not a very good result in all.

 

Would any of the naysayers like to change places so I can go to the ball?

 

To the rest of the attenders all I can say is enjoy yourselves.

 

Strange too that these comments haven't been made through the S4Society's own forum, where there is a also guest book for non members to make a posting. However, at least one Committee member is a member of RMWeb so the views expressed won't have gone unnoticed.

 

Sorry that you won't be able to get there, I hope you get well soon.

[Oldddudders]

Wally's sad post sums up this thread, where an unprecedented amount of clodhurling among otherwise-respected RMwebbers seems to have occurred before the show even starts!

 

It has always sounded like the sort of show where those of us in the RTR and OO end of the hobby might see some inspiration to finetune our own standards - a process that has been in train (sorry) since the dawn of our hobby. I hope those who attend will find they got what they wanted and more - and pics posted here are certain to be appreciated.

[10800]

I was not in the slightest being derogatory of the 2mm layout or any other scale layout that will be there - It is a Scale 4 expo and as such it should represent only scale 4 (in all its variations).

 

It's the exhibition of the Scalefour Society, not "a Scale 4 expo" - as I'm sure you are perfectly aware. Yes I know what the Society prospectus says, and I know that ExpoEM includes P4 layouts, but Scaleforum chooses to concentrate on P4 layouts. Layouts to other finescale standards (just don't, OK!) such as P87, S7, S and 2mmFS are invited as guests because there is much commonality between them regarding the process of layout building, wheels, chassis etc.

 

Though I guess my comments should follow the experience of tomorrow.

 

Which I hope will be positive, but I particularly look forward to a report on your discussions with Scaleforum organisers on the invitation of layouts to all variants of 4mm scale.

[Portchullin Tatty]

I'm off to Leatherhead now as if I do not then nobody has any power and then there will be plenty for people to moan about on this thread!!!!

 

It is a tad saddening reading this thread that people that rarely or never come to the show post as they have done. Scaleforum is not like (most) other shows; it is a friendly gathering of like minded people. There will be plenty of inspiring modelling both on and off specific layouts, lots of friendly people (and no elitists despite accusations), lots of things to learn and be inspired by and rather a lot of places to get the bits you need to build model railways (some of the traders either only come to Scaleforum or nearly so).

 

I think it is the show if you are interested in making model railways; it does not matter what scale, gauge, age, era, size or what have you that you model in, it is a well worth visit if you want to be inspired. For those that have not been before or for a while, come and find out for yourself.............................

 

For those that are coming, whether they are the uncertain or the certain visitors stop by for a chat. That is if you are not chatting to others at the show as it is a place to chat which is why so many of our visitors come for both days, they can't see the show and chat in one!

[jjnewitt]

I am another who thinks 10 is a bit on the light side for what I have always considered a key expo in the year. I do have a particular problem with a 2mm exhibit at a Sale 4 show and the exclusion of other 4mm layouts in other gauges. But then I always attend for the trade, though this year my list seems incredibly short .

 

I used to enjoy the odd lecture though more as a rest for my legs than the content, though not to put them down, they were often more enjoyable and thought provoking than expected.

 

Demos, well I've mixed feelings. They must be incredibly difficult to target at the level of knowledge of the person sitting on the public side. I've sat in on some pretty poor ones. Trying to teach me to solder when obviously I already knew that and was more interested in how mechanisms were working; or the assumption I was knowledgeable in weathering when all I was interested in was some basics. But as said difficult to target the audience in such a small period of time. The issue with having many demos is that most folk are probably not interested in all of them and some of them seem to get crowded out. You also get the odd one who is just chatting away to a 'friend' rather than demonstrating to those who need instruction.

 

I'll still be attending this year, despite or perhaps because of the above. I also expect I will still enjoy the experience.

 

Does two layouts really make that much difference? Personally I don't have a problem with a visiting layout from another finescale society. Perhaps it's no bad thing to remind people that there's life outside the P4 fence, even at the Scalefour Society's showcase.

 

Maybe the organising comittee will look at resurecting the lectures when Scaleforum moves next year if enough people twist their collective ears, if the venue is amenable to it of course. Perhaps you should have a word?

 

Surely the very point in having lots of demos at a show is that people wont be interested in all of them so you've got to try and make sure there's something for everyone?

 

I'm off to Leatherhaed now to set up my demo, hopefully it wont be a poor one. If what I'm doing takes your interest then stop by. I promise I wont try and teach you how to solder, nor do I know anything about weathering and if there is somthing specific on the table you want to know about then ask.

 

Justin

[Kenton]

Strange too that these comments haven't been made through the S4Society's own forum

 

Not really. I suspect that most folk didn't even know there was a forum, find that one model railway (the more general and more active one) forum is enough to occupy most computer time, probably thought membership was required, or some other very plausible reason.

 

It is bad enough being shouted at on a general topic of broader minded membership, I can imagine the screaming and ranting of a closed and selective membership if someone dared to naysay or criticise anything on their forum.

[martin_wynne]

I can imagine the screaming and ranting of a closed and selective membership if someone dared to naysay or criticise anything on their forum.

 

Hi Kenton,

 

Not so. It's a very friendly and helpful forum which doesn't take itself too seriously. Apart from membership matters, the whole thing is available for anyone to read, and even non-members can post in the Guest section.

 

There's no screaming and ranting:

 

http://www.scalefour.org/forum/

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Horsetan]

.....It is bad enough being shouted at on a general topic of broader minded membership, I can imagine the screaming and ranting of a closed and selective membership if someone dared to naysay or criticise anything on their forum.

 

Is that not just as bad as screaming and ranting at us on the subject of why you think a society show should be restricted?

[Kenton]

Is that not just as bad as screaming and ranting at us on the subject of why you think a society show should be restricted?

 

It would be if I was. I am just questioning why a show should have a 2mm layout and no other fine scale layouts in other gauges. I was also supporting comments of at least one other poster who felt that the total number of layouts was down (or appeared to be).

 

Contrary to the way I seem to be being painted I do like this show and do try to attend it most years as being on the make the effort to attend calender. They are surely not beyond improvement. Perhaps the lack of lectures is worth posting about as it seems to have been a specific decision by the organisers. But who knows perhaps they polled the membership and the vote was an overwhelming no.

 

While I appreciate they do have a forum all of their own and they may well be welcoming of those who just do not "get" the P4 fervor I am still not interested in finding time for other forums when this one covers all of my interests. I am a member of some other gauge societies but treat their forums with the same disdain.

 

I'm sure in the past there have been EM layouts and even the odd OO layout at this show? Perhaps there has been a change in management or direction?