Grantham - the Streamliner years

[jukebox]

I do like that last shot inside the shed - a lot!

 

6-12 scale inches of ash and clinker out front, and you'll be well on your way to a very believeable set piece.

 

Great work so far.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[Alister_G]

I need to find a place for a loco shed on my layout now - just so as I can shamelessly copy your idea.

 

Looks very effective, and as Jukebox says, with a covering of ash it will look superb.

[andyrush]

Thanks Al,

 

Yes, my observations are generally the same as yours. One of my 'things' with a steam era layout is to show the distinct contrast between fully ballasted and carefully maintained running lines and loosely laid sidings. If such sidings were ever ballasted then I am sure it would have been a long time previous or just the odd patch here and there to pack out the obvious dips and bumps. I've read over the years that loco ash was often used as 'ballast' for goods yards (I believe the NER even used it for mainline ballast!). I also wouldn't be over concerned with it being level with sleeper tops (I think that tended to be more the case in loco yards where there was a continual dropping of ash and cinders).

 

So, yes, I was going to go for a very light sprinkling of dark grey/brown flock, just enough to give a suggestion. But be sure to fully ballast the mainlines then you'll have that lovely contrast.

The portrayal of the track in goods yards is a major stumbling block on most model railways, as is the transition from 'main line' ballast to 'yard' ballast. The main thing to be remembered is that goods/marshalling yards had lots of people walking about in them (shunters/number takers/train preparers/guards etc) and having the sleepers standing proud was a major disadvantage, at least on the outsides of the track. Also, if a goods yard was shunted with the aid of horses, the same thing applied between the rails. The presence of 6 inch boulders, as seen in most model railway yards destroys the illusion quicker than overscale rail.

 

Attached are a couple of shots at Whitemoor (pre WW1 admittedly, but the same thing seemed to apply into the 1960's), the first of which shows part of the marshalling yard and the second shows the transition from 'yard' to 'main' lines

 

Hope this helps

 

Andy

[mullie]

The portrayal of the track in goods yards is a major stumbling block on most model railways, as is the transition from 'main line' ballast to 'yard' ballast. The main thing to be remembered is that goods/marshalling yards had lots of people walking about in them (shunters/number takers/train preparers/guards etc) and having the sleepers standing proud was a major disadvantage, at least on the outsides of the track. Also, if a goods yard was shunted with the aid of horses, the same thing applied between the rails. The presence of 6 inch boulders, as seen in most model railway yards destroys the illusion quicker than overscale rail.

 

Attached are a couple of shots at Whitemoor (pre WW1 admittedly, but the same thing seemed to apply into the 1960's), the first of which shows part of the marshalling yard and the second shows the transition from 'yard' to 'main' lines

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

GE61-03-54.jpg

GE61-03-40.jpg

One of the more popular ways to replicate yard track seems to be the use of Das modelling clay as used very successfully by Chris Nevard.

 

http://nevardmedia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/creating-effect-of-ash-ballast.html

Edited July 2, 2013 by mullie

[jwealleans]

any chance of some sample number ranges

Sorry, 4479, this slipped my mind.  Tatlow quotes 21000 and 23309 for those with end vents and 10959, 16790, 39002-100 for those without. 

[LNER4479]

The portrayal of the track in goods yards is a major stumbling block on most model railways, as is the transition from 'main line' ballast to 'yard' ballast. The main thing to be remembered is that goods/marshalling yards had lots of people walking about in them (shunters/number takers/train preparers/guards etc) and having the sleepers standing proud was a major disadvantage, at least on the outsides of the track. Also, if a goods yard was shunted with the aid of horses, the same thing applied between the rails. The presence of 6 inch boulders, as seen in most model railway yards destroys the illusion quicker than overscale rail.

 

Attached are a couple of shots at Whitemoor (pre WW1 admittedly, but the same thing seemed to apply into the 1960's), the first of which shows part of the marshalling yard and the second shows the transition from 'yard' to 'main' lines

 

Hope this helps

 

Andy

GE61-03-54.jpg

GE61-03-40.jpg

Thanks Andy - as authoritative as ever (and great pics)

 

At the risk of not putting down the shovel(!)   in my defence I was responding to Al very much with his Bakewell project in mind, thinking of a country goods yard in the Peak District, perhaps served by one pick-up goods a day - a world away from a busy, bustling marshalling yard. To complicate things further - and if I'd thought on a bit - the goods yards at Grantham had the working areas laid level with rail top in areas so as to allow vehicular access, as the following picture shows:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443415&screenwidth=1349

 

Moral of the story is to work from a photo of your chosen prototype (or inspiration for your model). The point about a level working surface for rail staff, horses, etc is well made however. I wonder if that was the main reason for the use of loco ash, as a top surface that soon compacted nice n level? 

 

Absolutely agree re the 'ballasting with rocks' look! It also puzzles me where a model has something similar in depicting a road surface...

[LNER4479]

I need to find a place for a loco shed on my layout now - just so as I can shamelessly copy your idea.

 

Looks very effective, and as Jukebox says, with a covering of ash it will look superb.

 

Well, you have 17D (Rowsley) just down the road... I'm sure you could fit in a spur off to a shed yard somewhere

 

Very tempted to plough on and completely finish the shed but my plan is to get it operational then revert to other bits of layout that don't even exist yet! (eg up goods yard, No.1 bay platform).

 

So much to do; so little time... Mind you, even Rod Stewart last night admitted that his layout will never be finished in his lifetime!!

[andyrush]

Thanks Andy - as authoritative as ever (and great pics)

 

At the risk of not putting down the shovel(!)   in my defence I was responding to Al very much with his Bakewell project in mind, thinking of a country goods yard in the Peak District, perhaps served by one pick-up goods a day - a world away from a busy, bustling marshalling yard. To complicate things further - and if I'd thought on a bit - the goods yards at Grantham had the working areas laid level with rail top in areas so as to allow vehicular access, as the following picture shows:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443415&screenwidth=1349

 

Moral of the story is to work from a photo of your chosen prototype (or inspiration for your model). The point about a level working surface for rail staff, horses, etc is well made however. I wonder if that was the main reason for the use of loco ash, as a top surface that soon compacted nice n level? 

 

Absolutely agree re the 'ballasting with rocks' look! It also puzzles me where a model has something similar in depicting a road surface...

The link you supply seems to show a sleepered crossing (for wheeled traffic) in front of the loco, to my eyes the other sidings visible have the ground made up to sleeper level. Just to prove that this didn't only apply to major marshalling yards, here is a view behind the up platform at Woodbridge (courtesy of the Mike Brooks collection, as were the previous two). The chickens are optional......

 

Andy

 

[LNER4479]

Putting shovel down...  (Sleeper tops, Al!)

[Alister_G]

Putting shovel down...  (Sleeper tops, Al!)

 

By your command, oh master.

 

Oh, and if I've got to fill it to the sleeper tops, you can pick that damn shovel up again, I'm going to need all the help I can get

[LNER4479]

Headlamps is a subject that frequently gets a mention on the forum so here's my take on the topic.

 

With my previous layout (Gowhole sidings) I developed a method for fitting and removing headlamps that 'worked for me' so intend doing the same for Grantham (the deployment of locos needs to be fully flexible and I have an aversion to locos sat on shed displaying an express passenger headcode!). This requires each loco to be fitted with useable lamp brackets, so here we have a suitable case for treatment - a Bachmann K3.

 

This picture illustrates (I hope) the conundrum. Like a lot of modern RTR offerings, the K3 is already fitted with lamp brackets (on the right) but, as can be seen, they are approx. twice the size they need to be; mine (on the left) are folded up and squeezed flat from nickel silver 26swg wire. Other RTR locos have brackets that are more to scale but these tend to be of plastic and too flimsy for regular lamp removal and replacement. The smokebox door bracket can be somewhat problematical too - sometimes it is just moulded on and needs to be removed completely.

 

Here is the top bracket being attached. A 0.8mm hole is drilled, angled downwards approx. 30degs and the bracket is secured with a drop of Super Glue, being already a tight push fit in the hole. Once set, the final length and profile of the bracket can be filed to shape (carefully, as we don’t want to damage any of the surrounding detail!)

 

The four brackets fitted. The top one still has to be fettled (it’s too long in this view)

 

At the same time, the K3 is undergoing a ‘retro’ conversion, as many of the original series built for the GN section of the LNER were right hand drive and towed flared tenders. I have transferred across the vacuum ejector pipe and the reversing rod as the most obvious giveaways of the former; a somewhat worn out Bachmann BR green V2 has donated the latter item(!)

 

And now for the lamps. These are the standard Springside items.

 

First job is to drill a 0.6mm hole up the lamp body. This is not dead central but towards the rear, partly to avoid accidentally knocking into the rear of the ‘jewel’ lamp and partly because the real lamp was attached at the back. It also helps with that troublesome smokebox door bracket, where there is limited room behind (see later)

 

Now the ‘clever’ bit. My smallest mini-screwdriver is used to work its way into the hole. Being whitemetal, the lamp body material is quite soft so it is possible to re-shape the hole to be a better match for the flat shape of the brackets and therefore a better fit. Clever? Ah well, maybe not…

 

Finally, I simply break off the vastly overscale handle! For me, this is the aspect above all that makes 4mm headlamps look so gaudy and obtrusive (despite their presence being prototypical). In scale terms, the handle is probably little more than the thickness of fusewire! I apply the ‘half-closed eyes test’ – it’s the first thing that ‘disappears’ when you look at a photograph of the real thing so omitting it on the model is worth doing (IMHO) if it makes the appearance of the lamps more in keeping overall.

 

The K3 now demonstrates the lamps in use: ordinary passenger…

 

…and express passenger. Still need to ‘sort’ that top lamp bracket!

 

Fresh from the paint shop and bearing its new identity of No.153, the K3 is sat on Grantham shed. I rather like the low numbers of some of the early K3’s and there’s a fine picture of this one heading through New Southgate with the Scotch Goods in 1934 so that’ll do for me. Very much the front line mixed traffic machine at the time the K3’s, the first V2 (4771) not appearing until 1936 and only really coming on stream as a class at the outbreak of the war (which they subsequently helped to win of course!)

 

The modification of the K3 now brings the number of lamp bracket fitted locos up to three, so here they all are demonstrating the end result. Liverpool displays ordinary passenger, Osprey express passenger and No.153 express goods (class A). The little ‘dodge’ for the top lamp is to file a chamfer at the back of some of the lamps to match the profile of the smokebox door which then gives a nice snug fit.

 

I think the lamps look OK like this, like they blend in to be part of the overall scene. And if the experience of Gowhole is anything to go by, regular handling will dull down the white of the lamp bodies which’ll help all the more.

 

No.153 soon finds herself pressed into service. This is the 1.36pm Leeds to King’s Cross stopping train, calling at Grantham 4.1-4.7. It had a buffet car attached at the rear at Doncaster. I realised after I took the picture that all the other vehicles on this train are non-corridor which makes access to the buffet car a bit of an issue! But I suspect things like this did actually happen and there were plenty of stops en route where a thirsty passenger could sprint down the platform to the source of refreshment! (anybody know for sure?)

 

'Robert'

Edited July 9, 2013 by LNER4479

[micklner]

I use Staples saves a bit of folding adding a tiny bit of blutack . Alexander Models do some excellent lamps without "gems" or handles some are on my locos on my thread.

 

K3 looks excellent.

[Alister_G]

Excellent, I've been wondering how to best do this myself, so your post is very timely.

 

I agree entirely that the lamps look better without the horrible handle on them, and your shot of the three locos together just reinforces that.

 

Nice work on the K3 as well, looks lovely.

 

Cheers,

 

Al

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I hope that PN fella is paying attention,  i've been a bit rude about the milk churns he's been using as lamps in the past....

 

And I agree with the others, that K3 is a beauty - something about plain black is just right.  If it were up to me, ALL steam engines should be black... and unlined.... and definitely not named!

Edited July 9, 2013 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[jukebox]

You are going to be in so much trouble when Gilbert comes along... 

 

Not only have you cracked his bete noir problem, but now every photo of PN without lamps, some wag is going to comment "have you seen how it's done over at Grantham?..."

 

I especially like the idea of cutting off the handle - makes a big difference.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[LNER4479]

Thanks for comments guys

 

Steady on re the K3 though - it is just a bog standard Bachmann one! All I did was swap over two detail parts and change the lamp brackets  The D2 is currently on the workbench for completion; that will be something far more 'all my own work'. The K3s are nice models though and, more importantly, run lovely.

 

Yes (MickLNER), I've heard of the use of staples. I don't usually fold mine double at the bottom. The only reason for doing so on this occasion was to make them a solid attachment into the slot left when the Bachmann ones were extracted. As it's an all metal, cast running plate, I had to come up with a way of making it a snug fit. Usually I drill a 0.5mm hole and glue (plastic) or solder (etched brass or whitemetal). The alternative lamps sound interesting - I'll keep a look out.

 

I think GN (Peterborough North) is still speaking to me, Dr G-F(!)  I think I've got a long way to go before any comparisons can be made with his magnum opus

Edited July 10, 2013 by LNER4479

[Mallard60022]

Great tip for the lamps 4479. Thanks.

P

[great northern]

Still speaking to you? I should say so! Great tips which I shall follow from now on. No more drilling holes in my fingers for a start.   And the mini screwdriver tip is exactly what is needed. I've been trying to make a pilot hole with a smaller drill then open it out with a larger one, but this will work much better, and I even have just the screwdriver for the job. Abandoning the massive Springside BR lamps which Dr G-F rightly derides was a step forward for me, but this information will give another big leap forward..... when I can find the time of course. I have about 25 vans which need transfers applying and more weathering before they can even go into service.

[LNER4479]

Thanks GN (phew!)

 

A quick further tip then, if I may? When you work the tip of the screwdriver into the hole, you'll tend to shove the displaced white metal material upwards. Best therefore to quickly run a 0.5mm bit up the slot to clear this stuff out. You might need to do this several times (ie screwdriver, drill, screwdriver, drill) before you get the slot into the right shape to accept the bracket.

 

I regret that I am unable to provide any professional indemnity insurance for this tip   - all I can say is that it worked OK for me!

Edited July 10, 2013 by LNER4479

[islandbridgejct]

And there was me thinking the V2s came along too late to change the outcome of the War. Must be getting confused again.

 

(I'm a long standing lurker on this thread - just watching and admiring.)

 

Alan

[LNER4479]

Thanks for your support Alan. I started composing a serious reply then 'got' the V2-war thing. Very good...

 

Had a look on your thread by return and can only admire the tenacity in your hand-built trackwork. Although my approach is very different, I see how we share the same views over 'too wide' track centres.

 

Have you seen the Irish Rail layout (Kilbrandon) in this month's BRM? Seems like your era. We had a holiday in SW Eire last year (doing the Ring of Kerry) and encountered some remains of the old trackbed down to Valentia Harbour. What a railway that must have been!

[Mallard60022]

V2....ahhh, the 'penny' has dropped! (Ducks have small brains ya naws).

Forgot to say how good that signal beside the 'box' looks 4479; great work (as is the box)

P

[Nelson Jackson]

Brilliant layout, an inspiration to us all.

[islandbridgejct]

Thanks for your support Alan. I started composing a serious reply then 'got' the V2-war thing. Very good...

 

Had a look on your thread by return and can only admire the tenacity in your hand-built trackwork. Although my approach is very different, I see how we share the same views over 'too wide' track centres.

 

Have you seen the Irish Rail layout (Kilbrandon) in this month's BRM? Seems like your era. We had a holiday in SW Eire last year (doing the Ring of Kerry) and encountered some remains of the old trackbed down to Valentia Harbour. What a railway that must have been!

 

And thank you for the encouragement. It's particularly valued because of the quality of your own modelling. I'm afraid I haven't made any progress in a few months. Work has taken over my 10 til midnight modelling slot, so I'm contenting myself with rmweb and irishrailwaymodeller for my fix. When I get going again, I have to build a wheel fitting jig - I've already made one in plastic to test the concept, but I'm really going to need to get out the soldering iron and brass and make one that's strong enough to do the job.

 

Kilbrandon is another real inspiration. Thanks for the heads up on the article - I'll be rushing off to buy a copy tomorrow.

 

(I was afraid of getting a rocket myself for my first post.)

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Alan

[LNER4479]

Work has taken over my 10 til midnight modelling slot...

 

Ah, the beloved 10 till midnight slot! All the best modelling is done then. Sorry yours is currently compromised; I was making full use last night (hence no reply till now!), down to single figures now in terms of final detail parts on the D2. Pix in the next few days all being well...