Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[RJS1977]

 

The latest Class 395 Javelin train pack (R3185 Sir Chris Hoy) has a tilting mechanism.

 

 

Well, Chris Hoy does tilt when he goes round corners!

[robmcg]

To my eyes the detail on the Duke of Gloucester looks every bit as good as the separately-fitted detail on the Britannias. There are separate handrails on both models in the pictures shown at the beginning of the thread.

 

If the amount of labour required to produce similar results is reduced, that that is in my opinion good.

 

Rob

[James]

Wonder if we'll see an EM version of that Sentinel on BCB. Would it be man enough for a steelworks and pulling stock up a steep grade?

 

British Steel had 4 wheel Sentinals - I've seen photos of similar locos (albeit with side rods) in use at Skinningrove. Other works (Consett and Ravenscraig as far as I can remember) had the 6 wheel version.

[Coldgunner]

Hattons has already got its listings up...

 

http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/cataloguetypes.aspx?supCatID=103

[sixteen 12by 10s]

I don't usually take a lot of notice about new releases, only to find I want something when it has gone out of production.

I have noticed, that the last few new product announcements from the “big 2” have featured some unusual wagon, from Bachmann, we have the two Midland/ LMS brake vans, and from Hornby, the Long CCT and blue spot vans, please don't take this the wrong way, but are they trying to put Parkside Dundas out of business?

[Oldddudders]

Thus destroying the veil of intellectualising a critique.

Probably wasted Andy, sadly.....

[Clive Mortimore]

In the speculation thread I predicted that there would be nothing new for Hanging Hill Diesel Depot. I got one thing right.

[Clive Mortimore]

Would a Hall class boiler have similarities with a Star class boiler? Dimensionally, that is.

 

Rob

 

Both classes had the Number one boiler, as did the Saint class, the Grange and the 28xx.

[gwrrob]

Would a Hall class boiler have similarities with a Star class boiler? Dimensionally, that is.

 

Rob

 

Great news on the Star class being done and don't they have some of them have evocative names.Nice to see Great Western liveries on models too.

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_str.htm

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_hal.htm

[GoingUnderground]

Whilst the bit about rebranding as Triang-Hornby was clearly a dig at the moulded on detail/"Clever design" comments, the belief that Hornby was at the high end of modelling and Triang the low end needs to be challenged.

 

In the 1950s Meccano/Hornby Dublo used tinplate for non-loco rolling stock whilst Rovex was pushing ahead with injection moulded plastic that had far more raised detail than HD. The detail available from injection moulded plastic was much better than what was available at the time from HD, and hte price was lower.

 

The only area where HD might have excelled was in the quality of its motors and the pulling power of its die cast locos. Hornby Dublo was not renowned for the accuracy of its models nor in its price competiveness. The Deltic was far too short, the Class 20 in 2 rail had pickup problems, the Co-Bo was a poor choice for a modern loco and was roundly criticised, and the Class 81 was poor having many faults, only some of which were corrected when it reappeared as the Triang Class 81. The Class 501 had tinplate sides but injection moulded ends, a strange compromise. The station buildings were a very strange shade of cream, not a colour that I'd ever seen on any building, never mind that the same colour was also applied to the platforms - weird.

 

Hornby Dublo died because they didn't make what folks wanted at the price they were prepared to pay. Only the name lived on, and that probably owed more to the reputation of the 1920/30s O Gauge range than the HD range. I'd love to see the name Triang reappear or even for the name to revert to Rovex Scale Models, as calling it Hornby seems all wrong to me as a child of the 1950s who ardently preferred my Triang stock to my cousin's HD stock.

 

But it's not going to happen if only because the Triang name was sold off separately from Rovex.

[t-b-g]

British Steel had 4 wheel Sentinals - I've seen photos of similar locos (albeit with side rods) in use at Skinningrove. Other works (Consett and Ravenscraig as far as I can remember) had the 6 wheel version.

 

We had a pair of 4 wheeled Sentinels back in the late 1970s at the coking works at Orgreave. They were generally regarded as pretty useless compared to the Yorkshire Engine Company "Janus" types, as gravity shunting was involved and they had to double head the Sentinels to get the same load up the gradient. I recall finding some snaps on Flikr once but I can't remember exactly where. A search on "Orgreave" should get you somewhere. They were a very dirty dark green colour, which had faded badly at the time the Flikr photos were taken.

[Oldddudders]

Great news on the Star class being done and don't they have some of them have evocative names.Nice to see Great Western liveries on models too.

I always wanted 4007 Swallowfield Park. It just sounded "right".

[The Black Hat]

Thus destroying the veil of intellectualising a critique.

Probably wasted Andy, sadly.....

 

Fraid not. Its merely the wording Hornby have used. Why not call its 'Clever Design'. Then they could explain, 'We use out clever design to cut our costs to customers,' 'to save on the production methods to get our models to customers quickly and on time.' Could even have a whole tag line for Hornbys PR Department. "Another Clever Design from Hornby." The Duke certainly is a clever design and some might argue the P2 was too clever.

 

The practice that Hornby will employ will be judged by the models when they are released. The whole idea of Hornby reverting to moulded detail is being questioned by a few, not just me!

[Andy Y]

Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

[richierich]

For Diesel Electric and modern image modellers, not a lot to say really. The Class 56 in Large Logo is nice, but £140.99 RRP eeekkkk!! A Class 31 in BR blue would have been nice, especially as the original R2413 has chassis rot issues.

 

The Sentinal 4 wheel shunter is different. A 6 wheel version would be useful as well. Wonder if it has lights and room for DCC and DCC sound? i.e. is the standard as high as the Class 08 / 09?

 

Hornby has some potential gems in their range that need a make over (or moving over to the railroad range with a price cut), like the Class 142, Class 156 and Class 90.

 

Oh well looks like all eyes are in the main on Bachmann and their continued support of the Diesel Electric modeller with locos and rolling stock, with a bit of support from Dapol, plus new companies like Realtrack, who look to be lifting the DMU bar very high with the Class 143 / 144.

[Bartb]

I have been asking for a 2Bil on the past wish lists and now I have my wish granted, so I have pre-orderd the BR one. (For now) I think Hornby have done a good program for 2013, so lets hope all models sell well. One thing I did notice was in the SKALEDALE range, and that was R9714 Shop for Sale. I Normaly don't buy RTP buildings but I will buy one of these.

John

[RJS1977]

Having now taken time to read everyone else's comments, here are my thoughts:

 

Reading the release, I'm quite taken aback as it's almost as if someone read my plea last night for more affordable models and acted on it immediately!

 

Personally I can't see what all the fuss is about with the "reduced" level of details - as I posted last night I'm sure very few people wanting a "Duke of Gloucester" will really refuse to buy one just because it doesn't have the full detailing (given that the alternative is to kitbuild/convert a Brit, which would involve more work than upgrading a more basic DoG), and a lower price will probably encourage more people to buy.

 

The 2-BIL looks pretty good to me (and if it causes a glut of Triang EMUs on to the 2nd hand market so I can get a spare trailer car at a sensible price to convert into a Jersey Railway railcar, so much the better!). Given that they were used in Reading, I could be tempted except that my layout's set in Wales!

 

Definitely tempted by the Reading shunters' van though. At first glance maybe a little pricey for a 4-wheel wagon, but probably not so much when onebears in mind Hornby are never going to sell anywhere near as many as they do 7-plank open wagons!

 

The Sentinel's an interesting choice. At that price I'd suggest it probably will have a slow-running chassis in it (good!) but I could also see the potential for the body being fitted to either a 101 chassis (or even a Nellie chassis if Hornby still have the toolings!) as train set fodder...

[Captain Kernow]

"The problem of moulded-on detail is it has to be removed for a better look. Unfortunately the removal damages the original finish, so a repaint is then required. Unless you're seriously skilled with an airbrush, then the final finish of the manually detailed model is not going to be a patch on what the factory can do".

To be honest, whilst a steady hand with the scalpel is useful in these situations, the paint finish issue can be addressed by some judicious weathering, rather than a complete re-spray...

[t-b-g]

If you look at old magazines from the 60s and 70s, new loco releases were like hen's teeth. We have been truly spoilt rotten by the variety of manufacturers and the types of locos they are introducing.

 

The comments of "they haven't done 31410 as it was seen at Doncaster on 17th June 1977 with a scratch in the paintwork on the LH side" sort just make me chuckle!

 

I actually applaud the concept of cutting back on the seperate detail to enable models to be produced at a sensible price approach.

 

Anybody who just wants to open a box and play trains isn't going to be too worried if a handrail is moulded. It won't break or come off first time they pick the thing up. Hornby had, in my view, gone too far in that direction and you could hardly get some things out of the box without bits falling off.

 

It gives those of us who actually like to do some modelling the sorts of opportunities we had in the past, to get a loco out of the box and put something of ourselves into it, with a bit of modelling. The press used to be full of articles on superdetailing this and that but they have all but gone because there is so little to do with modern stuff.

 

Perhaps it is a backward step but sometimes a step backwards can be exactly the right direction to go in.

 

So when the P2 comes out, I will probably choose the "railroad" version on cost gounds and enjoy doing a bit of work on it. If they get the colour right I will be gobsmacked so it would probably get a repaint anyway!

 

And I will be grateful to the team at Triang/Hornby for giving me the opportunity to do so.

 

Tony

[reevesthecat]

Hi

May have missed it speed reading 15 pages but how do we get in touch with Simon K at Hornby to tell him what we want?

Mark

[Andy Y]

I'll be addressing that in the not too distant Mark.

[Nimbus]

This has puzzled me too - Simon's interview mentioned that the pull-push set was design clever.

 

[...]

 

3. the images of the amended vents in the opening post represent a stage further of designing much more cleverer and haven't been used yet (i hope this isn't the case - worse result, less effort)

 

Or

4. Simon's flying a kite to see what we'll put up with?

 

 

Not being known for boundless optimism, the announcement of 'design clever' does not stoke up my anticipation for the new products. I'm just relieved the Thompson coaches made it into the earlier era.

 

For me, it also blurs the distinction between Railroad and main ranges, as Tornado has - I've not even been curious enough to look at one, as it has not been made clear to me what extra I'd be getting from the main range version, or even how to identify it in the shop.

 

If design clever means I will have to carve stuff off an expensively-finished main range example, then be unable to find a good paint match for the scars, given Hornby's strange interpretation of BR Loco Green, meaning a complete repaint instead, then I'd just go for the Railroad one, provided it was basically accurate, and do my full repaint on that, and ignore the main range version.

 

If there was a market need for another range of BR Mk 1 coaches, it was of the non-gangwayed variety, as Bachmann's are well behind the state of the art. Given Hornby's energetic mining of the LNER varieties, that would be expecting a bit too much.

 

The N2's definitely in need of a revamp. Look at that amorphous dome skirt. Been like that from day 1. 2014 perhaps?

 

Oh, and if it's not too late, please change the font on the 'Great Gathering' display case to genuine Gill Sans. The 'R' looks so wrong!

 

 

Cheers,

the Nim.

[Captain Kernow]

Anybody who just wants to open a box and play trains isn't going to be too worried if a handrail is moulded. It won't break or come off first time they pick the thing up. Hornby had, in my view, gone too far in that direction and you could hardly get some things out of the box without bits falling off.

 

Whilst I agree with the above comment, I do wonder how Bachmann also manage to add a very acceptable level of detail, yet that generally doesn't break off, if you are a bit careless when removing it from the packaging?..

 

There was a time when we all had to shave moulded handrails off and replace them with wire ones, for those of us for whom that sort of thing mattered. As such, it doesn't particularly worry me on one level. If, however, it adds time to the eventual completion of a loco to a standard that I am happy with, and if that represents time I could have spent on something else, perhaps something more important to me, hobby-wise, then I'm not sure that I'm too keen on a return to moulded-on detail. As the years roll by, the one thing we all have less and less of, is time...

 

On the other hand, I cannot find it in myself to be too hard on Hornby. They have produced some wonderful models so far, and I cannot see the 'design clever' methodology being retrospectively applied to some of the current hi-spec models, such as the Maunsell and Hawksworth coaches. If this is their strategy to carry the company forward successfully into the coming decades, you've got to wish them luck with it, especially if the alternative in a few years time were to be no Hornby at all.

[Legend]

Well congratulations to Hornby on a very large program in a time of recession. More dips than a roller coaster! What I think is becoming obvious is that Hornby regard their territory as large steam locos. Thus we have DoG ,P2, Hall and Star for 2013. Could this be because they can only achieve their required margin on these locos, including the design clever down specing. I suspect those looking or small tanks and 0-6-0s will have to wait for the Barwell boys as Hornby just can't make them for the price. Remember the furore over the price of 4f last year.

 

While the Sentinel might contradict this theory, it is a relatively simple loco and doesn't have the detail of a small tank. MREmag is saying these will be DCC fitted and have a slow running motor.

 

A good range for those in the steam range but BR Blue modellers will be disappointed (again). The LL 56 really being the only offering this year

 

If my theory is correct expect a MN and 47xx next year!

[wrex]

 

If design clever means I will have to carve stuff off an expensively-finished main range example, then be unable to find a good paint match for the scars, given Hornby's strange interpretation of BR Loco Green, meaning a complete repaint instead, then I'd just go for the Railroad one, provided it was basically accurate, and do my full repaint on that, and ignore the main range version.

 

 

That could well be the intent, if it comes down to finer lining on the paintwork and a few extra details as with the Tornado. If its a unified 'shell' then you can go for the cheaper one and model the variations on top.