jcredfer Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Well ......... does that mean it is ........................ My mate took this picture in the middle of a thunderstorm in the afternoon between Tamworth and Burton being the hardcore photographer that he is. ........................ just a "Flash in the Pan" ........... Anyway ....like acg_mr says ........ what bought a consist like that on ......................................................................................... you were just tempting us to ask ............. come along now - admit it ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 See I knew you would be intrigued. Well apart from the Class 66 on the front, the train is actually in its normal consist. The stock in the middle of the train is new LUL S Stock. This one is an eight car coming back to Derby for modification. The reason for the for the need to have the four Class 20's and the tank / barrier wagons is for several reasons: 1. The train has to reverse three times during its journey (Derby, Princes Risborough, Aylesbury) Having engines on both ends of the train cuts down the time of these reversals without any run rounds being required. The driver simply changes locos and is on his way. 2. The LUL stock itself is unbraked so the locos and wagons provide sufficient brake force to be able to stop the train. One loco, say a Class 66, could be used to pull the train but quite a few wagons would need to be added to the train to provide the required brake force which would make the consist longer than it is now. 3. As the underground stock is unbraked it obviously cannot be the last portion of the train as if a coupling broke it would simply run away. there is a through brake pipe that is placed through the S Stock to provide a continuous brake between the lead locos and wagon and the rear ones. Should the train come apart or the pipe breaks the brakes will be automatically applied on both ends of the train. Well I supposed you would like to know why the Class 66 was on the front. Well lets just say there was a slight operational hiccup and the 20s got a little bit thirsty on the way up from London . Hence 66723 was dispatched for a little bit of assistance. 66723 is a bit of a pet engine for me. One, because its the first Class 66 I drove on my own after completing my freight train handling hours and two, its named after an absolute beast of the aviation world. Although perhaps one of the 20's carrying the name would be more apt as their audio characteristics are more on a par............ By the way I might just add some pictures of the layout later. Well it is supposed to be a LAYOUT THREAD!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2014 ive driven 66723 a few times, my fave was this one..... followed by this one...... 66715 "valour" which is an offical war memorial! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi Marcus, Lovely layout shots, finally found time to catch up on your progress as its a really nice layout. The prototype images are great too. I had missed the RF pair if 20's until I saw a photo in rail express recently and thought they looked really nice. Even better to get to drive them. All the best Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 ive driven 66723 a few times, my fave was this one..... followed by this one...... 66715 "valour" which is an offical war memorial! out of curiosity....do the same loco, same spec....so technically the same....... drive differently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2014 they pretty much drive the same, there are differences between the original and low emission ones, the older ones seem more powerful, i have also driven a couple of 66/6's which are lower geared and they have a bit more low down pulling power but a lower top speed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 As Jim says they do very much drive the same within class although they all have their own little foibles. Now the Class 20's on the other hand they all behave a little bit differently. Mostly like cantankerous old men LOL. Anyway, Mr Todd look away now. Nothing to see but some crappy old Ratio telegraph poles. LOL!! Prior to painting, just making sure Id got my holes straight. Getting there! First coat of paint applied to the poles and the insulators painted white. Having drilled the holes first it was a convenient place to put them whilst the insulators dried. Once completely dry I'll paint the steps and the galvanised steel weather plate on the top of the post. Then add some dry brush weathering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted July 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2014 Theyre looking great Marcus, nice work. It's amazing the difference having them in place makes to the scene. Would there be a pole at the side of the signal box so that the block phone and telegraph lines go to it? Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hi Al Yes, your right. Unfortunately I need another packet!! The other question is would they run down into the station or would the wires be put in trunking under the ground. Unfortunately telegraph wires were a bit before my time on the railway. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also at the tunnel mouths would the wires simply duck down into the tunnel and run along the wall on brackets or would there be some kind of Junction box outside the tunnel? Cheers Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2014 Marcus, Al has pointed me to your thread just to look at your poles! My first reaction is that you have them too close together. Going off photos taken of Littleport when it still had a pole route (and being able to see the station out of the box windows!) the closest the poles were together was about 60 feet, but this is because the route was on the inside of a bend. I would expect a on a striaght run the space to be closer to 90ft. Do you need the route on both sides of the line, I would have thought that if it is a junction (sorry first look at the thread!) the routes would head towards the box in a Y shape. As for the link into the box, there are two ways of doing it. 1) A pole opposite the box which had a set of arms at 90* to the route which would take the wires across the line to another pole outside the box. (presuming the route was on the other side of the line from the box, otherwise 2) below would be used). 2) The pole opposite the box would be double (ie arms on both sides of pole) armed with u-brackets with double grove (pot head) terminating insulators on each wire. The bare wires would then be connected to insulated cores and run down the pole and under the track. Here it was done in concrete troughing (at least to the cess, I don't know after than). As for the tunnels, you could either terminate them and run a cable throgh the bore, or they could run over the top of the hill.... Also the height of the poles was variable, round here they were quite short when they were on embankments, being about the same height as the top of a Mk1 coach roof, whereas on flat land the arms started just about MK1 roof level. The poles got taller around road crossings around about 16' from the road (going off the photo of the crossing here). Also the steps and roof, although galvy, didn't stay that way for long, the zinc would weather and then the rust would be through. I'd pint them mucky brown with bits of grey. Another thing would be the lengths of the arms, quite a few railways had long (4way) arms alternating with short (2way) arms on their poles, so might be worth checking for your pre-grouping railway! HTH Andy G I have scans of the gpo instructions for poles if you want them) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Thanks Andy. That's been really helpful. Another quick question I take it BR's internal telephone system was carried via wires on the poles as well as the signal box communications. If this is the case would the wires have carried on towards the station itself? I have had a look at some old pictures of Kyle of Lochalsh and there appear to be poles running down the side of the yard. admittedly these are only two bar rather than four bar. Also I have there is a photo of Fort William Signal box where the wires appear to come off the main poles at an angle to the post outside the box. Would this have been another solution to having a post at 90 degrees. I'll find the links and post here. I did wonder if they were a bit close together. I'll drill some more holes and space them a bit further apart. Again thanks for taking the time to respond. Many thanks Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Kyle of Lochalsh - http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/30/79/2307996_95cb2ce8.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Fort William - https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8337/8213183467_4a0102cf4f.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notanotherhobby Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Marcus, please forgive my "rivet counter" comment, but you could save some cash if you space out the poles as they look a tad close to one another I'm afraid. This is from a much earlier "post" (sorry) on the subject: Poles on straight stretches are spaced on average 65 yards apart. (=780mm or 30inches in 4mm scale). Just a thought. Lovely layout by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notanotherhobby Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Oops sorry, missed the earlier post from uax6. Doh!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Excellent reference details. If they had to cross over...do we assume they went under the rail.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted July 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hi Jaz, no, they would go over. If you look at Marcus's post 388 the picture of Fort Bill, you can see wires going everywhere! I also think Marcus, that you've got overhead power in that photo as well just to confuse the issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2014 Thanks Andy. That's been really helpful. Another quick question I take it BR's internal telephone system was carried via wires on the poles as well as the signal box communications. If this is the case would the wires have carried on towards the station itself? I have had a look at some old pictures of Kyle of Lochalsh and there appear to be poles running down the side of the yard. admittedly these are only two bar rather than four bar. Also I have there is a photo of Fort William Signal box where the wires appear to come off the main poles at an angle to the post outside the box. Would this have been another solution to having a post at 90 degrees. I'll find the links and post here. I did wonder if they were a bit close together. I'll drill some more holes and space them a bit further apart. Again thanks for taking the time to respond. Many thanks Marcus Marcus, I would guess that the internal lines would use the pole routes, as a lot of these places only had an omnibus circuit shared between all boxes on the line, and this would usually include the station buildings as well. That picture at Kyle shows two pairs, I'm guessing the other pair could be for the ground frame release for the far end of the loop. Lines coming off at an angle wouldn't have been a problem. Why not just remove every other pole? Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think your next project should be a hill fog generator for that full Scottish feel.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Like the poles, I need a couple for my sidings for the office phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think your next project should be a hill fog generator for that full Scottish feel.... I'll just breath on the camera lenses before I take the pictures. That should do the trick. LOL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Took Andy Gs advice and removed every other pole and added a post by the box as suggested by Al. Piccy below........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Looks great Marcus,what other plans you got lined up?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 17, 2014 Marcus, The poles next to the box need to be turned through 90* , and then you need to add some arms on the opposite poles to line up with them, otherwise the wires would never make it across to the box. To show what i mean heres some lovely ASCII art: sb I P-------P I The arms on the pole across the line from the box: I I ------O------- I I The ---- are the arms already on the post, the I being the new arms at 90* to the originals. I'm trying to think, as i type, how the 90* arms would be on the pole. Google is useful look at this page: http://teleramics.com/inuse/inuse2006.html Sorry I'm now off to look at insulators...... Andy g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejab95 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some awesome pics there! Loving all the class 37s! Joe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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