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Bachmann announce Narrow Gauge range led by Baldwin 4-6-0T


Andy Y
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Let me make this very clear, this query is not pro or anti DCC.......

But we need facts and candid advice.

I understand that all the locos are fitted with a speaker and do have off the shelf DCC versions.

 

But there appears to be no RTR DCC with sound version in the main suppliers lists.

 

If it exists who does retail an RTR sound version?

 

Zimo list sound chips with pin compatibility, but do they match the Bachmann Speaker, as they list specific impedances. ( Other makes are the same )

 

Also is the sound file generic or specific to the two cylinder small engine?

 

If you reply on this can you quote the part number etc, not generalisations?

 

Makers are doing themselves no favours leaving out the sound with DCC, I just want an RTR DCC without fuss and not having to pay £100+ for a DIY or shop fitted effort...

 

There are several posters mentioning using sound, so please full details.......

 

Stephen.

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Further to my previous query on sound, would a sound chip from say Zimo FULLY function with the Hornby DC\C controller or any other basic unit?

No general Yes replies please .....and then add that some functions do work or need recoding CV's .etc.

I have the Hornby unit and building a new Merg system.

It is all and everything to do with cost, I do not want a partially equipped sound loco wasting up to £140 odd pounds ,

Stephen

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No there isn't a rtr version with sound installed.

There is a specific chip that will fit for sound and it is a very quick job with full instructions in with the loco.

 

Link to the Digitrains website with the decoder and soundfile which is currently the only one recorded off the real loco that I know of.

 

Decoder

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/mx659n18-sound-decoder-next-18-20x9.5x3.aspx

 

Sound including full function listing.

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/zsba-baldwin-sound-zimo.aspx

 

As to full compatibility I can only say it works with a NCE basic powercab and the Z21. They allow access to 20-30 functions which I don't know of the Hornby one will.

Edited by PaulRhB
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It is just too complex and costly, not your fault, but even Zimo try to sell extras after my parting with £99, just to access what should be there in the first place.

DCC is still a complete and utter minefield, when are the makers going to sort out the mess and offer RTR sound packages.

No wonder that pickup of what should be a fine system is so slow in the UK.

Stephen

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They are only going to offer it on items they think will sell in enough numbers to justify it.

Too complex? To install sound you unhook two pipes and undo two screws then pop out the blanking plug and pop in the decoder. It's one of the easiest installs ever taking less than a minute.

Too costly? Well that's the only option at present and until they develop a micro decoder along the lines of Hornby's TTS with more basic functions that is the only option so you choose on what you can afford or think is reasonable. Personally I am prepared to pay a little more to encourage the sales and hope that eventually it leads to cheaper options. Sound is coming down in price but these sophisticated micro electronics for such a niche market aren't going to be cheap.

The Zimo decoders are far more sophisticated than a TTS one and more reliable from what I've seen with a friends ones so you get what you pay for.

Value for money can be very subjective but I really don't believe there is enough of a market for pre installed rtr 009 sound. Having the speaker installed so you just have to plug in the decoder with no soldering is surely worth something and only adds a few pence to the price. Buying in a decoder like they have with ESU or Soundtraxx for their larger locos isn't going to save much as the discounted bulk price pays for the installation.

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I have the instructions, plus doxens of PDf's on DCC, it is the incomplete nature of not knowing whats compatible that is frustrating, des[ite Lenz and NMRA standards.

 

If makers want to make different controllers with extras they can, but a specific chip should respond to all instructions on even the most basic controllers, and they don't..........

 

My main DCC is on 0n3 Bachman, and were factory fitted and work with the Hornby controller. A couple have sound chips fitted and these cause issues with the controller, with some sounds inaccessible, which actually work on.

The cure I was told by a leading retailer was to spend a further £330+.........

 

This is the reason I am building the Merg version, which hopefully will cope with any decoder.

 

Stephen.

[edit, complex refers to the compatibility of Cv functions on controllers which should adhere to NMRA standards, but do not, it does not refer to the fitting which is easy..]

Edited by bertiedog
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Ah well that's a whole different thing than your wording suggested it being this loco.

Afraid that's a whole different topic and not really relevant here. Dcc is an add on that manufacturers have made their items compatible with but it was never designed from a simple toy approach but from a technical one that would allow very sophisticated options. If you want the iPhone level plug and play then there is TTS, if you want sophisticated sound options and realisim then you are at the computer technician end. As with a pc, basic connection, install and reset anyone can do but for custom set up you either learn it or pay a technician to do it.

There's no way of dumbing down the interface and still offering all the options, you need a SPROG, Lokprogrammer or Zimo programmer and to learn it. I have no idea with the pc but I have taught myself a lot by experimenting with a lokprogrammer and I share it when I can and sort mates chips for them.

DCC is a bit messy because it is a basic core with lots of individual manufacturers adding bits on top. You can eliminate that with a one manufacturer system like iPhone but then you are tied to all their quirks too.

Edited by PaulRhB
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I have the instructions, plus doxens of PDf's on DCC, it is the incomplete nature of not knowing whats compatible that is frustrating, des[ite Lenz and NMRA standards.

 

If makers want to make different controllers with extras they can, but a specific chip should respond to all instructions on even the most basic controllers, and they don't..........

 

My main DCC is on 0n3 Bachman, and were factory fitted and work with the Hornby controller. A couple have sound chips fitted and these cause issues with the controller, with some sounds inaccessible, which actually work on.

The cure I was told by a leading retailer was to spend a further £330+.........

 

This is the reason I am building the Merg version, which hopefully will cope with any decoder.

 

Stephen.

[edit, complex refers to the compatibility of Cv functions on controllers which should adhere to NMRA standards, but do not, it does not refer to the fitting which is easy..]

 

Stephen,

 

I may be wrong, but you seem to be confusing what the decoder is capable of and what your DCC system can cope with. CVs are not in the controller, they are part of the decoders' basic software.

 

ZIMO sound decoders all have access to 29 F keys (0-28). But UK sound projects are loaded to them separately and which may have only a dozen activated whilst others use all 29. Not all sound projects are created equal and each supplier will have their own source for sound projects. ZIMO do not offer UK sounds directly, they are all created by third parties, so it's not ZIMO (or ESU) who you should be addressing, but the sound file creator/ supplying dealer.

 

In many cases, you have a degree of choice which retailer you use, but be under no illusion, the sound projects from one ZIMO retailer for a particular loco will not be the same as from another. Only you can judge the quality of the sounds and controls offered.

 

You might find it useful to know which UK sound creators are recommended by ZIMO. You can then find out who they supply.

 

Download the ZIMO catalogue here:  http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/Decoder-Catalog_2017_July_English.pdf

 

As well as the astonishing range of decoders for all scales you will find the ZIMO recognised sound authors; UK people on page 40.

 

All my after market sound projects are available exclusively from Digitrains. Those I have created for model manufacturers will be available from the manufacturer only.

 

However, in this specific instance, If you want a sound fitted Baldwin 009, there is no choice as pointed out earlier. (Other than recording the loco yourself and creating your own sound project to load).

 

Firstly, because only ZIMO make a reliable mainstream sound decoder small enough to fit ths model*. In fact, it was especialy designed for the Baldwin. It's the ZIMO MX659N18 and is truly 'plug and play' in this model.

 

*CTElektronik make a smaller decoder which physically fits, but is neither mainstream, reliable or for that matter, easily available in the UK any longer due to poor support from the manufacturer (who used to be a ZIMO employee).

 

Secondly, currently only Digitrains, the oldest surviving ZIMO retailer, have the authentic sound project I created from recordings of the real 778 at Leighton Buzzard Light Railway.

 

Bachmann have installed a speaker in all versions of this model. That makes it very easy to retro fit sound. They did the same thing with the Graham Farish Class 40. The sound fitted version was released several months after the non-sound examples. Just saying.

 

If you have downloaded the User Notes from the Digitrains website (linked by PaulRhB above), you will see that all 29 function keys have either a control function or a sound assigned to them.

 

If your DCC controller can address all 29 F keys, you will have access to everything the sound project was designed to deliver. Happy days.

 

If not, then that's an issue with the less fully featured DCC controllers, not ZIMO (or ESU) decoders or the sound project loaded.

 

BTW, an NCE PowerCab is capable of all this and more, and costs around £150, much less than the £330+ you were quoted.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

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Stephen,

 

I may be wrong, but you seem to be confusing what the decoder is capable of and what your DCC system can cope with. CVs are not in the controller, they are part of the decoders' basic software.

 

ZIMO sound decoders all have access to 29 F keys (0-28). But UK sound projects are loaded to them separately and which may have only a dozen activated whilst others use all 29. Not all sound projects are created equal and each supplier will have their own source for sound projects. ZIMO do not offer UK sounds directly, they are all created by third parties, so it's not ZIMO (or ESU) who you should be addressing, but the sound file creator/ supplying dealer.

 

In many cases, you have a degree of choice which retailer you use, but be under no illusion, the sound projects from one ZIMO retailer for a particular loco will not be the same as from another. Only you can judge the quality of the sounds and controls offered.

 

You might find it useful to know which UK sound creators are recommended by ZIMO. You can then find out who they supply.

 

Download the ZIMO catalogue here:  http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/Decoder-Catalog_2017_July_English.pdf

 

As well as the astonishing range of decoders for all scales you will find the ZIMO recognised sound authors; UK people on page 40.

 

All my after market sound projects are available exclusively from Digitrains. Those I have created for model manufacturers will be available from the manufacturer only.

 

However, in this specific instance, If you want a sound fitted Baldwin 009, there is no choice as pointed out earlier. (Other than recording the loco yourself and creating your own sound project to load).

 

Firstly, because only ZIMO make a reliable mainstream sound decoder small enough to fit ths model*. In fact, it was especialy designed for the Baldwin. It's the ZIMO MX659N18 and is truly 'plug and play' in this model.

 

*CTElektronik make a smaller decoder which physically fits, but is neither mainstream, reliable or for that matter, easily available in the UK any longer due to poor support from the manufacturer (who used to be a ZIMO employee).

 

Secondly, currently only Digitrains, the oldest surviving ZIMO retailer, have the authentic sound project I created from recordings of the real 778 at Leighton Buzzard Light Railway.

 

Bachmann have installed a speaker in all versions of this model. That makes it very easy to retro fit sound. They did the same thing with the Graham Farish Class 40. The sound fitted version was released several months after the non-sound examples. Just saying.

 

If you have downloaded the User Notes from the Digitrains website (linked by PaulRhB above), you will see that all 29 function keys have either a control function or a sound assigned to them.

 

If your DCC controller can address all 29 F keys, you will have access to everything the sound project was designed to deliver. Happy days.

 

If not, then that's an issue with the less fully featured DCC controllers, not ZIMO (or ESU) decoders or the sound project loaded.

 

BTW, an NCE PowerCab is capable of all this and more, and costs around £150, much less than the £330+ you were quoted.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Stephen,

 

I may be wrong, but you seem to be confusing what the decoder is capable of and what your DCC system can cope with. CVs are not in the controller, they are part of the decoders' basic software.

 

ZIMO sound decoders all have access to 29 F keys (0-28). But UK sound projects are loaded to them separately and which may have only a dozen activated whilst others use all 29. Not all sound projects are created equal and each supplier will have their own source for sound projects. ZIMO do not offer UK sounds directly, they are all created by third parties, so it's not ZIMO (or ESU) who you should be addressing, but the sound file creator/ supplying dealer.

 

In many cases, you have a degree of choice which retailer you use, but be under no illusion, the sound projects from one ZIMO retailer for a particular loco will not be the same as from another. Only you can judge the quality of the sounds and controls offered.

 

You might find it useful to know which UK sound creators are recommended by ZIMO. You can then find out who they supply.

 

Download the ZIMO catalogue here:  http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/Decoder-Catalog_2017_July_English.pdf

 

As well as the astonishing range of decoders for all scales you will find the ZIMO recognised sound authors; UK people on page 40.

 

All my after market sound projects are available exclusively from Digitrains. Those I have created for model manufacturers will be available from the manufacturer only.

 

However, in this specific instance, If you want a sound fitted Baldwin 009, there is no choice as pointed out earlier. (Other than recording the loco yourself and creating your own sound project to load).

 

Firstly, because only ZIMO make a reliable mainstream sound decoder small enough to fit ths model*. In fact, it was especialy designed for the Baldwin. It's the ZIMO MX659N18 and is truly 'plug and play' in this model.

 

*CTElektronik make a smaller decoder which physically fits, but is neither mainstream, reliable or for that matter, easily available in the UK any longer due to poor support from the manufacturer (who used to be a ZIMO employee).

 

Secondly, currently only Digitrains, the oldest surviving ZIMO retailer, have the authentic sound project I created from recordings of the real 778 at Leighton Buzzard Light Railway.

 

Bachmann have installed a speaker in all versions of this model. That makes it very easy to retro fit sound. They did the same thing with the Graham Farish Class 40. The sound fitted version was released several months after the non-sound examples. Just saying.

 

If you have downloaded the User Notes from the Digitrains website (linked by PaulRhB above), you will see that all 29 function keys have either a control function or a sound assigned to them.

 

If your DCC controller can address all 29 F keys, you will have access to everything the sound project was designed to deliver. Happy days.

 

If not, then that's an issue with the less fully featured DCC controllers, not ZIMO (or ESU) decoders or the sound project loaded.

 

BTW, an NCE PowerCab is capable of all this and more, and costs around £150, much less than the £330+ you were quoted.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Paul,

 

Thanks for your great work on this project. I have two sound fitted. By far the easiest loco to fit sound to i have.

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I have just installed a Laisdcc decoder in Peggy and it works fine on both DCC and my very battered Gaugemaster duel controller which i bought in the seventies I think .Getting Peggy to strip down her top  off proved more difficult as one side stuck  hard  and I had to run a blade along the join and pull hard .Not for the feint hearted but as I am mad I did it .One slip and Peggy would have been scarred for life .I use Laisdc where I can as I mainly have   an H0 shunting plank  with some sound equipped locos and plain DCC and most functions work fine for me .Peggy will chug round a modest roundy again taxing few functions

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I know this will horrify all the perfectionists out there but with Peco 009 stock accumulating and the Heljan locos pending (ahem), I thought it would be a good idea to buy a basic Kato N gauge track pack. It included a nifty little controller and I find that the DC Peggy responds very well to it. A female Little just short of five years old got the hang of it pretty quickly and was able to run Peggy right down to a very slow crawl. She was even more pleased with herself than I was with her.

 

(To all non-perfectionists – it’s all about fun, isn’t it?)

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I know this will horrify all the perfectionists out there but with Peco 009 stock accumulating and the Heljan locos pending (ahem), I thought it would be a good idea to buy a basic Kato N gauge track pack. It included a nifty little controller and I find that the DC Peggy responds very well to it. A female Little just short of five years old got the hang of it pretty quickly and was able to run Peggy right down to a very slow crawl. She was even more pleased with herself than I was with her.

 

(To all non-perfectionists – it’s all about fun, isn’t it?)

 

Have  to  agree,  if  its  not  fun  no point  in  doing  it!!  No rivet  counting  here!

 

As  I type...……. under the  spare  bed  I  have  a  box full of  Kato Unitrack  probably  around £300s worth  which  comes  out  occasionally  and   we build a table   based  layout  and  run  trains, all sorts  of  trains, Japanese, UK,  Continental,  and 009,  quite  relaxing  to  watch  a  long  ish  train  snake  over  a  Kato  scissors  crossing!  And   I agree the  Kato  controller does  provide excellent  control.

We  have a 'female' visitor  who frequently  visits (one of my sons lives  just 1/10 mile  away so we are very well placed to  'look after her  for  a  while. :O '  she  has  not  reached controller using  age  ( only just one)  but  takes a great interest in the  trains,  so perhaps  hope  for the future!

 

Apologises  for  the topic  drift  but  I did mention 009

Edited by Stevelewis
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

Resistance was futile. the coaches were a 10 tenner each and will be respayed to match , I'm waiting delivery of a new set of name plates from Narrow Planet

and a brand new layout has already been started.

 

post-8647-0-48440700-1534084637_thumb.jpg

Edited by 81C
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  • RMweb Gold

I picked up my second Baldwin from Kernow last week and have just set her to run-in. After a couple of minutes running in the top link on the valve gear dropped, the joint indicated in the image.

 

post-8912-0-32647500-1534237029_thumb.jpg

 

I have clipped it back in and she seems to be running ok. Anybody else had this problem and do you think she is likely to suffer a repeat? I am reluctant to return her she was the last one that Kernow had and she is getting harder to pick up new.

 

Edit: I have now run it in at 40% for one hour in both directions and, so far, all is good. Fingers crossed t had just not been assembled quite right and is now fixed.

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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I picked up my second Baldwin from Kernow last week and have just set her to run-in. After a couple of minutes running in the top link on the valve gear dropped, the joint indicated in the image.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_2510(2).jpg

 

I have clipped it back in and she seems to be running ok. Anybody else had this problem and do you think she is likely to suffer a repeat? I am reluctant to return her she was the last one that Kernow had and she is getting harder to pick up new.

 

Edit: I have now run it in at 40% for one hour in both directions and, so far, all is good. Fingers crossed t had just not been assembled quite right and is now fixed.

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

 

For  info  ARCADIA RAIL  SHAW   had  stock at  the weekend, TIM is  on  Holiday now  so  shop reopens 22nd AUG.  so  there will be  none  sold until  then!  always  best  to  phone 01706882900

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  • RMweb Gold

A follow up to my Peggy motion problem - it has fallen apart again, so it looks as though it will have to be returned. A real pity as I love this loco and will have to pick up another.

 

As an aside, I am not sold on DCC sound in steam locos (I have 20+ diesels converted), but following the videos and comments, I have just fitted it to my Hummy. It is brilliant and really adds another dimension to operating it.

Roy

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  • 4 weeks later...

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