Odd wagons of the UK

[keefer]

Vacuum brake with Accelerated Freight Inshot (AFI).

Not sure of the exact details but I think it means quicker vacuum-brake application.

[eastwestdivide]

Couple of pics at Hoo Junction around 1983, on a theme of half-van-half-wagon (good name for a band):

 

Tunnel inspection unit QXV DB 975662

 

Gauging van QXV DB 975807

 

[phil_sutters]

Talking of half & half, can anyone tell whether the half van half open wagon in this photo existed. I made it in the late 1960s. I am fairly sure I had seen a model of it in a model railway magazine, possibly MRN, and copied it.

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Talking of half & half, can anyone tell whether the half van half open wagon in this photo existed. I made it in the late 1960s. I am fairly sure I had seen a model of it in a model railway magazine, possibly MRN, and copied it.

 

 

I've certainly seen an official Earlestown drawing where one side was a half elevation of an open and the other a half elevation of a van, since the two types shared a common design of underframe - LNWR Wagons Vol. 1 p. 86 - vac-fitted D9 and D87. Your weird combo looks to me like the result of misunderstanding a photo where an open was parked in front of a van! But if such a photo exists, I'd put my bottom dollar on you having a copy of it!

[jonhall]

Nice photo of hedgehog, here is my effort

 

 

[phil_sutters]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I've certainly seen an official Earlestown drawing where one side was a half elevation of an open and the other a half elevation of a van, since the two types shared a common design of underframe - LNWR Wagons Vol. 1 p. 86 - vac-fitted D9 and D87. Your weird combo looks to me like the result of misunderstanding a photo where an open was parked in front of a van! But if such a photo exists, I'd put my bottom dollar on you having a copy of it!

I have now found the working drawing I made and that confirms that it was a copy of a model, but doesn't say where I saw it. What it does show is that on the door of the open section it has the words MOTIVE POWER with BATH below.

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

I have now found the working drawing I made and that confirms that it was a copy of a model, but doesn't say where I saw it. What it does show is that on the door of the open section it has the words MOTIVE POWER with BATH below.

 

The covered part looks like the body of a road van - the Derby / S.J. Claye-built type - with the open section converted from an ordinary round-ended open but given an unusually wide drop door. If the 6-wheel underframe is from one of the 5-compartment thirds, it's 30'5" long over headstocks, which, given that the road van body is 16'6", would make the open part 13'11" long, just 1' shorter than standard. So was this something cobbled together at Highbridge sometime between c. 1900 and 1930?

 

I can't find anything corresponding to this in R. Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Stock Registers 1886 – 1930 (The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000)

 

I like your ballast brake in red. I see Steve Banks has done them in a sort of brown; the official photo of No. 1 DY 8587 clearly shows that it's not the standard grey and Garner's Register gives red oxide as the colour for Engineer's Department stock. As a teenager, I painted a Midland ballast wagon about the same shade of red as you used; I now think that the Midland red oxide should be more like locomotive crimson lake, but duller - no umpteen coats of varnish. Certainly not brown. Anyway, makes me think rail wagon No. 1242 may be red rather than grey.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Compound2632

[Mol_PMB]

This may not be odd at first glance, it's an ex-Midland/LMS brake van in industrial use.

But can anyone identify which diagram of van it is? I've drawn a blank so far.

 

It has LMS-style verandahs rather than the Midland type.

But the LMS vans mostly had duckets, which this one doesn't (though there is a gap in the handrails for one).

There were some later vans without duckets, but they had a longer 14' wheelbase rather than the 12' wheelbase here.

The closest I can find is in Essery's LMS Wagons volume 1, plate 7, and the caption to that suggests it's a bit of a mystery.

However, this van is fitted with diagonal bracing which is not on the van in plate 7 - it may have been a later modification?

Thoughts welcome!

 

Note, MSC 6373 was superficially similar but different in detail and was probably a Midland diagram 1240.

[Wickham Green too]

Many MR/LMS brakes ( and GWR ones ) received reinforcing diagonals when the bodies started racking - so that's a red herring .............. I'd guess the M.S.C. bought a couple of vans off BR and sheeted over the ducket hole on this one to bring it into line with the other. 

[br2975]

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

This may not be odd at first glance, it's an ex-Midland/LMS brake van in industrial use.

But can anyone identify which diagram of van it is? I've drawn a blank so far.

 

It has LMS-style verandahs rather than the Midland type.

But the LMS vans mostly had duckets, which this one doesn't (though there is a gap in the handrails for one).

There were some later vans without duckets, but they had a longer 14' wheelbase rather than the 12' wheelbase here.

The closest I can find is in Essery's LMS Wagons volume 1, plate 7, and the caption to that suggests it's a bit of a mystery.

However, this van is fitted with diagonal bracing which is not on the van in plate 7 - it may have been a later modification?

Thoughts welcome!

 

Note, MSC 6373 was superficially similar but different in detail and was probably a Midland diagram 1240.

LMS D1657  20ton brake van.

.

950 built between 1927-1931

.

Essery suggests the additional diagonal strapping was fitted during either late LMS or early BR days.

.

As mentioned above, the ducket has been removed.

[Mol_PMB]

Plate 7 in Essery shows a van like this in early LMS livery with no ducket, suggesting that some were built without. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Plate 7 in Essery shows a van like this in early LMS livery with no ducket, suggesting that some were built without. 

 

That is correct: D1659, 849 built 1924-27, followed the preceding Midland design quite closely and so were without lookouts; D1657, 750 built 1927-31, were much the same but with lookouts, as were the vacuum-braked examples to D1656, 100 built 1926/7 [R.J. Essery and K.R. Morgan, The LMS Wagon (David & Charles, 1977)].

[Mol_PMB]

Indeed. The example in Essery Plate 7 and the MSC van are unusual in that they have the verandah style of the later vans, but are lacking the ducket. 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Indeed. The example in Essery Plate 7 and the MSC van are unusual in that they have the verandah style of the later vans, but are lacking the ducket. 

 

Yes, sorry, point taken; I see now what you mean. D1659 has the boarding in a rebate on the inside the framing, Midland style; D1656/7 have the boarding in a rebate on the outside of the framing. That and the handrails point to this being a van that has had its lookout removed, as you said.

[montyburns56]

Sand wagon Northampton Shed 1965 by John Evans

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

Somewhat reminiscent of the Southern's tunnel=blocking wagons of WW2 !

[billbedford]

Originally that was a LNWR D.60 Tranship van. Some were later converted to workshop vans and given the sloping roof at one end. 

[Hippel]

But what was the sloping roof for? Any particular reason?

 

Paul

[billbedford]

They were used as crane runners, though they don't seem to have been given supports for the jib. 

[montyburns56]

PEA ICI Sodium Carbonate Tip Air Wagons by Huw Millington

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by montyburns56

[LNERGE]

This one looks interesting..

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p265322570/eeeac5047

[PhilJ W]

11 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

This one looks interesting..

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p265322570/eeeac5047

 Locomotive department ash wagon?

[hmrspaul]

21 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

This one looks interesting..

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p265322570/eeeac5047

 

Do you mean the dolomite container wagon on the extreme right. There has been a 3d print one and suitable transfers discussed elsewhere on RMWeb in the past month or so. Nice to see it in colour, I didn't realise the containers were in freight stock red. Strange!  BR Diagram 1/063 CONFLAT LD wagons and Diagram 3/400 LD 

Discussed here 

 

 

I don't have a way of enlarging, but the tanks are interesting. I think the large plates are ICI and they are rare 40ton GLW wagons with the skirt to fix tank to frame, but not a monobloc - the tank is on top of the frame like https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icigseries

- but could easily be wrong.

Could it be the first iteration of the Soda Ash tanks again? https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/icisodiumcarbonate/e262f6bfe

 

I don't recognise the York view either, but like everywhere it has changed considerably in the intervening years. 

 

Paul

Edited December 26, 2021 by hmrspaul
Found the RMWeb topic about the same wagons.

[LNERGE]

A better picture here..

 

 

[montyburns56]

TRV Milk wagons 1986

 

 

 

 

TMV 1986

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All by Huw Millington