Hornby ex LSWR/SR Adams 0415 Radial

[Fenman]

... double heading of locomotives is a very difficult thing to arrange on-layout under DC conditions. I mean the actual coupling up. With DCC it is a breeze, as you obviously know. DCC enables the operator to run his/her layout in proto fashion, DC struggles in some real-railway situations. 

...

 

 

I think you're right.

 

However, double heading was forbidden on the western section of the M&GN over the West Lynn bridge, and I'm not aware of that railway ever indulging in banking (what with the gradients in that part of West Norfolk being on the gentle side). So I can't actually think of any circumstance for me in which DCC would for operating represent a positive benefit over DC. Whereas the expense would be considerable. Fortunately I dislike sound, too.

 

Anyway, horses for courses, and all that. 

 

Paul 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Hornby may have used the M7 method of transferring power from the pick-up plate to a stud that takes it to the DCC socket. The pickup bears on a contact under the plate, and may get out of contact if things are done up tight, distorting the pickup plate a fraction, trouble is you can't see what is happening...

 Or more recently as on the J50 and others, by sprung contacters that bear on the pick up strips in the keeper plate. (I can see the benefit for an assembly operation, no need for any waving around of soldering irons in the final assembly, all the soldering can be done at subassembly stages well away from plastic bodywork.) I am suspicious of the longevity of all such arrangements, and at the first faltering in movement soldered on wire connections are substituted.

[toboldlygo]

 Or more recently as on the J50 and others, by sprung contacters that bear on the pick up strips in the keeper plate. (I can see the benefit for an assembly operation, no need for any waving around of soldering irons in the final assembly, all the soldering can be done at subassembly stages well away from plastic bodywork.) I am suspicious of the longevity of all such arrangements, and at the first faltering in movement soldered on wire connections are substituted.

 

They've used sprung plungers on the chassis to the pick up strips on the keeper plate - the same method as the on the S15 etc.

[darren01]

They've used sprung plungers on the chassis to the pick up strips on the keeper plate - the same method as the on the S15 etc.

Did not Airfix use this arrangement on some of there loco, and as i remember after a while the plungers stuck and coursed pick up problems?.

I did have a 1400 that failed due to the plungers getting stuck, seems to be a little backward step.

Darren

[toboldlygo]

Did not Airfix use this arrangement on some of there loco, and as i remember after a while the plungers stuck and coursed pick up problems?.

I did have a 1400 that failed due to the plungers getting stuck, seems to be a little backward step.

Darren

 

Times change, as do the materials and lubricants used. No matter what type of arrangement Hornby use for the pick-up connections, people will ALWAYS complain about it   

[Butler Henderson]

Did not Airfix use this arrangement on some of there loco, and as i remember after a while the plungers stuck and coursed pick up problems?.

I did have a 1400 that failed due to the plungers getting stuck, seems to be a little backward step.

Darren

The problem with the AIrfix 14xx was that the springs in the plungers typically could not cope with the current drawn by the motor.. A modern motor will draw far less current and sprung contacts have been used on many models without problem.

[Mr chapman]

Well I've asked for "an Adams radial" for my birthday. We'll let fate decide if its a Hornby or Oxford version. Cant be fairer than that

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... No matter what type of arrangement Hornby use for the pick-up connections, people will ALWAYS complain about it   

 

Au contraire, I positively celebrated when they got it right (comparison of Bachmann and Hornby 2-6-4Ts):

...(Hornby's) Golden patch, Britannia 2006 to O1 2012. Good motor mounts, reliable motor and gear train, brass driven axle bearings, soldered connections within loco to pick up wipers;...

 

The present good news is that they are generally making good choices in the mechanisms once again: and the sprung contacters work better than the pre-2006 cast mazak post or brass eyelet bearing on the wiper strips, and the DIY mod to soldered on wire connections is made simpler by the two neat holes the sprung contacters are located in.

[Froxfield2012]

Thanks to all who have provided thoughts on my small issue.  I only undid the retaining screws a small amount and, as far as I can see, the body is still well seated on the chassis.  Everything seems OK for now and I am also well pleased with the look of the thing!  I had another small issue with the Hornby King, where the insulation on the wires connecting the decoder socket was cut through and causing a short.  Again, easy to cure, so I am not complaining.

 

I opted for 30584 and acquired a couple of Maunsells to recreate this train (picture seen before on RMWeb):   I hope I have got that right, although I have NOT gone to the lengths of renumbering the coaches as, in any event, I don't know what the correct numbers would be!  Age 13, I got to ride on the footplate from Axminster to Lyme Regis after we came upon the crew taking their lunch in the first compartment of the train during the stopover in Axminster. This shot was taken after our return to Axminster.  So this really is "nostalgia modelling":  although purely straight out of the box!  In all, we made three visits to the branch, on one of which we had one of those "it's a small world" moments.  We were approached whilst we were taking photos by someone we hadn't met before who remarked by way of introduction that he was Derek Cross.  As it happened, we hadn't heard of him, although my father was a member of the Railway Photographic Society at the time.  I recall that Dad was rather unimpressed for some reason I never fully understood.  But then, that's railway photographers for you!  Of course, Derek Cross's output is indeed now (and still) well-known and remarkable for its range and quantity.  It remains a small world.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Froxfield2012

[Ian Hargrave]

Just a quick warning, when I picked up my Adams tank, I asked to test it in shop and I am very glad I did so. The first had some minor details loose in the box and I asked to swap before even taking it out. The next two ran incredibly poorly, initially making half a turn before stopping briefly before not working at all. Fortunately the 4th ran sweetly and had all the detail in place, so I am very happy with it. Apparently they were the first less-than-perfect models identified by this shop.

 

Despite the usual exemplary service from The TrackShack,the "performance" of my 30582 is a complete nightmare and it will soon be flying back to whence it came. I suspect it is the usual Hornby split gear tower once more as the model soon developed a grinding/tearing noise and then ground to a halt with its wheels spinning but no traction in either direction.

 

Other problems to beware of....this has been posted here already....is its track holding over baseboard joins and a difference in elevation that you get....and (in my case at least) over Peco 100 pointwork. I am unhappy with the design of the rear pony truck.

 

A beautiful model cosmetically and,when it runs,a smooth performer. Trouble is it didn't run for very long.You have been warned....sorry,Hornby,we've been here before on far too many occasions

[bertiedog]

Times change, as do the materials and lubricants used. No matter what type of arrangement Hornby use for the pick-up connections, people will ALWAYS complain about it   

But Hornby have had 60 odd years to get such a simple thing as pickups right, the M7 is a disaster area due to trying to be clever and eliminating a single wire. Most makers in Europe do not have these troubles, and they come from the same FE sources, so why do pickups and wiring seem the headache that Hornby has with them, it can only be the inexperience of the current designers in the specifications.

 

So far the Adams has few queries apart from a tight fitting body, and mysterious cut out, when screwed up tight, but this sort of issue should have been dealt with at the early design stage.

 

Trouble is all the early stuff is done on computer, and real world wiring is set aside to wait to an engineering sample, and wiring is often a low priority. I did speak to some people in the trade about this and it seems most makes have the same issues, but European makers seem to be immune to it, as they build and test more. I was involved in the supply of models and other engineering, and know the processes involved, and can see the lack of joined up planning getting into production.

 

I have bought one of the Hornby Adams myself, in Black, and will strip and check it over on the wiring, and leave the DCC socket in case it is needed as there is space. It runs fine, a bit more"noise" than the Oxford, which is near silent on both I have. The haulage is a fraction more, and it suffers traction failure on badly laid track with hills and dales, hardly Hornby's fault, it's the tracklaying! The top speed is higher on the Hornby, the bottom speed better on the Oxford. Both respond to PWM and feedback controllers to give crawl operation. I tested mine with a Lenz decoder on DCC and it worked first time, except to re-set for better slow speed.

 

Mention was made of split gears, if such things occur then take it to the shop for replacement, it is fully G'teed.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

On the stopping on dales and bumps, the Hornby is a touch better than the Oxford, which had little or no upward movement on the rear axle, unless re-drilled.

 

The Hornby, sitting on a test track on a surface table, has about a ,75mm of play, so if it stops, then you have track problems, which however would not show on other types of loco.

 

Again the cure would be to drill out to a slightly larger size, or drill right out and fit a brass bearing tube, with a very light spring. You can fit the tube with side movement about an off set ( to front) pivot and actually have a radial axle, but this is a far more serious conversion than re-lying a bad spot on the track.

 

The front bogie is easy, take out the pivot washer and fit a thinner one, or none.

 

I laid some set track on a flat shelf and added paper sheets under the joints to get bumps and it sailed across those, but could not get dips to cause any problem, till a piece was deliberately bent to a mm dip over six inches, then the loco stopped. I suspect the main issue as usual is over enthusiastic use of nails and screws to hold the track down, be it set track or Flexitrack.

Always pre-drill the track holes to secure with nails, and press, not hammer them in.

 

Stephen.

[Ian Hargrave]

But Hornby have had 60 odd years to get such a simple thing as pickups right, the M7 is a disaster area due to trying to be clever and eliminating a single wire. Most makers in Europe do not have these troubles, and they come from the same FE sources, so why do pickups and wiring seem the headache that Hornby has with them, it can only be the inexperience of the current designers in the specifications.

 

So far the Adams has few queries apart from a tight fitting body, and mysterious cut out, when screwed up tight, but this sort of issue should have been dealt with at the early design stage.

 

Trouble is all the early stuff is done on computer, and real world wiring is set aside to wait to an engineering sample, and wiring is often a low priority. I did speak to some people in the trade about this and it seems most makes have the same issues, but European makers seem to be immune to it, as they build and test more. I was involved in the supply of models and other engineering, and know the processes involved, and can see the lack of joined up planning getting into production.

 

I have bought one of the Hornby Adams myself, in Black, and will strip and check it over on the wiring, and leave the DCC socket in case it is needed as there is space. It runs fine, a bit more"noise" than the Oxford, which is near silent on both I have. The haulage is a fraction more, and it suffers traction failure on badly laid track with hills and dales, hardly Hornby's fault, it's the tracklaying! The top speed is higher on the Hornby, the bottom speed better on the Oxford. Both respond to PWM and feedback controllers to give crawl operation. I tested mine with a Lenz decoder on DCC and it worked first time, except to re-set for better slow speed.

 

Mention was made of split gears, if such things occur then take it to the shop for replacement, it is fully G'teed.

 

Stephen.

Yes,Stephen,I know.It is being returned as I have posted.Regrettably,this is one of quite a few I have experienced. I think by now I can recognise it for what it is

[toboldlygo]

A few things worth noting:

 

The machine tolerances are very tight of the model, never try to remove the body if you've be running it for an extend period - as the motor will heat up the tank weights on the chassis, causing them to expand to an interference fit with body (also metal).

 

There is an adhesive strip on the left hand-side of the chassis (in front of the tanks), holding the wiring in place - this will also make the body harder to come off as it adhesive on both sides.

 

If you suspect gear splitting check that the keeper plate is screwed on properly first, as the pick-up plungers can push the keeper plate away from the chassis and causing the gearing to jump.

 

And especially for Ian - read the warning label on the box: Not suitable for children under 14 or Ian Hargrave   

[Ian Hargrave]

A few things worth noting:

 

The machine tolerances are very tight of the model, never try to remove the body if you've be running it for an extend period - as the motor will heat up the tank weights on the chassis, causing them to expand to an interference fit with body (also metal).

 

There is an adhesive strip on the left hand-side of the chassis (in front of the tanks), holding the wiring in place - this will also make the body harder to come off as it adhesive on both sides.          

 

If you suspect gear splitting check that the keeper plate is screwed on properly first, as the pick-up plungers can push the keeper plate away from the chassis and causing the gearing to jump.

                                                                         

All was in order.Not yet near my dotage.Not my problem any more.On its way back across the sea.We'll try again tomorrow with one sourced from Derails this time.I have asked Little Dan to give it a good run before sending it. Track Shack didn't have any more in stock..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

[toboldlygo]

All was in order.Not yet near my dotage.Not my problem any more.On its way back across the sea.We'll try again tomorrow with one sourced from Derails this time.I have asked Little Dan to give it a good run before sending it. Track Shack didn't have any more in stock..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

 

As you know me by now - I'm pulling your leg (or is it coupling rod) in jest.  I'm baffled by the split gear issue on these, having had one more or less in it's component parts (the coupling rods are works of art btw) - the gears are considerably more chunky than those found on a MN or WC etc.

[Ian Hargrave]

As you know me by now - I'm pulling your leg (or is it coupling rod) in jest.  I'm baffled by the split gear issue on these, having had one more or less in it's component parts (the coupling rods are works of art btw) - the gears are considerably more chunky than those found on a MN or WC etc.

I have never heard a noise quite like this....a combination of tearing and grinding...and then the subsequent performance of stopping with drivers turning but loco immobile.When I first had it yesterday,it run smoothly bunker first until the first set of points when it promptly derailed.Then after negotiating a crossover and baseboard join it stopped and we had the first instance of wheelspin and no traction. All appeared in order under the plate anf front/rear pony tracks. On rerailing/cleaning wheels/track,the first instances of the noise began.I then went for broke and put it at the head of a rake of 30+ mineral wagons on the opposite track and in  the other direction. Hauls then very well indeed...only slight noise...but the power is transferring smoothly to the drivers.That was last evening.

 

Tried again this morning....collapso !! Runs like drunken dog with ghastly noise.Fails with load of two Maunsells. I then gave up and phoned John Moyes at TrackShack.He is refunding me .Good bloke to deal with. A shame.

 

Not one to give up completely,I then phoned Little Dan at Derails.Yes I do love this model. Asked if before sending one,he would give it a good work out on his test track.I explained my difficulties with the first one and that if there was a fault,it might not evidence straightaway. Just had an email from him to say that he's tested it for 45 minutes in either direction under light load and nothing sinister has appeared. Thus it'll be with me tomorrow.So..watch this space.

 

Having been disappointed  with no SR branchline stuff ,after posting the Radial,I had a pleasant session with the Maunsell push&pull set and mucky 30052 with mucky 30448 on the mailine with a rake of seven Maunsells

 

Now where did they come from ? The branch line set was then replaced with four Bulleid +van hauled by truly grimy airsmoothed 34019 from presumably the same source I enjoyed ...particularly the "Arthur" which really looks and does the business very sweetly indeed

[toboldlygo]

Meanwhile in Toboldlygo's Locomotive Works...

 

 

 

[toboldlygo]

I have never heard a noise quite like this....a combination of tearing and grinding...and then the subsequent performance of stopping with drivers turning but loco immobile.When I first had it yesterday,it run smoothly bunker first until the first set of points when it promptly derailed.Then after negotiating a crossover and baseboard join it stopped and we had the first instance of wheelspin and no traction. All appeared in order under the plate anf front/rear pony tracks. On rerailing/cleaning wheels/track,the first instances of the noise began.I then went for broke and put it at the head of a rake of 30+ mineral wagons on the opposite track and in  the other direction. Hauls then very well indeed...only slight noise...but the power is transferring smoothly to the drivers.That was last evening.

 

Tried again this morning....collapso !! Runs like drunken dog with ghastly noise.Fails with load of two Maunsells. I then gave up and phoned John Moyes at TrackShack.He is refunding me .Good bloke to deal with. A shame.

 

Not one to give up completely,I then phoned Little Dan at Derails.Yes I do love this model. Asked if before sending one,he would give it a good work out on his test track.I explained my difficulties with the first one and that if there was a fault,it might not evidence straightaway. Just had an email from him to say that he's tested it for 45 minutes in either direction under light load and nothing sinister has appeared. Thus it'll be with me tomorrow.So..watch this space.

 

Having been disappointed  with no SR branchline stuff ,after posting the Radial,I had a pleasant session with the Maunsell push&pull set and mucky 30052 with mucky 30448 on the mailine with a rake of seven Maunsells

 

Now where did they come from ? The branch line set was then replaced with four Bulleid +van hauled by truly grimy airsmoothed 34019 from presumably the same source I enjoyed ...particularly the "Arthur" which really looks and does the business very sweetly indeed

 

Are you sure you don't mean 30053

 

Exhibit A, B and C..

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Are you sure you don't mean 30053

 

Exhibit A, B and C..

 

30053.jpg

 

30448.jpg

 

34019.jpg

Might be.Will check tomorrow.

[Derails Models]

Not one to give up completely,I then phoned Little Dan at Derails.Yes I do love this model. Asked if before sending one,he would give it a good work out on his test track.I explained my difficulties with the first one and that if there was a fault,it might not evidence straightaway. Just had an email from him to say that he's tested it for 45 minutes in either direction under light load and nothing sinister has appeared. Thus it'll be with me tomorrow.So..watch this space.

Ran with 4 open wagons for 45 mins in either direction at moderate speed - they are usually tested here for a few minutes to check all is well but after hearing your previous troubles I was only too happy to help.

 

I hope she performs as well on your layout as she did on ours!

Edited July 12, 2016 by Derails Models

[Ian Hargrave]

Ran with 4 open wagons for 45 mins in either direction at moderate speed - they are usually tested here for a few minutes to check all is well but after hearing you're previous troubles I was only too happy to help.

I hope she performs as well on your layout as she did on ours!

Many thanks.Look forward to it.

[Ian Hargrave]

Ran with 4 open wagons for 45 mins in either direction at moderate speed - they are usually tested here for a few minutes to check all is well but after hearing your previous troubles I was only too happy to help.

 

I hope she performs as well on your layout as she did on ours!

 And indeed she does.Toddles happlily along with prototypical Lyme Regis-Axminster load of Maunsell open 2nd, Maunsell brake 2nd and BR Suburban 2nd. No grinding,no tearing noises.

 

Very many thanks for the service and delivery.Happy bunny

[toboldlygo]

Basking in the sun, in between the showers.

 

 

[SDJR7F88]

A bit late, but better than never. Some close-up pictures taken during my review. (Again camera does not do the colour justice)  Hope they are of help. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1asC1P88Ano