Hornby ex LSWR/SR Adams 0415 Radial

[PrestburyJack]

Does anyone know if Hornby will produce an olive green radial? I can only find reference to a black one.

AFAIK an Olive Green version was announced, then replaced with the Sunshine Black version.

[JohnR]

I asked this earlier, but I cant seem to find an answer, but does anyone have dates when the Radials went from early to late crest? 

[Oldddudders]

The take up of DCC is slow due to the cost mainly, it is very expensive, and the way most people use it is wasting the system.

 

SNIP

 

At present I do not use DCC for most models, but I have it on On3 locos that came with it, using a Bachmann controller. although there are many parameters you can set, running is not improved on an already well running model, and the only advantage is constant lighting, which can be done cheaper in DC anyway.

 

 

 

Why are people 'wasting the system', Stephen? Anyone who wants to be able to make prototypical moves with locomotives, relative to each other, without the complex section switching required in DC, is making good use. 

 

Do you really mean On3? Or On30? A bit of a difference in gauge!

[90rob]

I asked this earlier, but I cant seem to find an answer, but does anyone have dates when the Radials went from early to late crest? 

30584 appears with early crest on 19th June, 1960 in 'Southern Branch Lines' by Michael Welch. 30583 has the later crest in another picture taken the day before...

A picture in 'Southern Branch Lines' by C. J. Gammell dated July 1960 shows 30582 still with early crest. A picture in the same book show 30582 on 1st January 1961 with late crest.

In volume 2 of the Bradford Barton 'Southern Branch Line Steam 30583 is shown on 11th May 1958 with early crest.

Edited July 10, 2016 by 90rob

[bertiedog]

Most users of DCC only have one loco in motion at a time, which is fine on DC as well,.....Complex wiring or sections,...... a bit of wiring and a few switches, cost a few pounds.....average good DCC plus chips plus point motor chips, plus lighting chips for coaches, plus boosters, plus sound, plus signals....all right........ not everybody has all DCC equipment,, but this is hundreds of pounds to add to the layouts cost

.

I did not say I do not use it!! I have used DCC since Zero 1, thank you,..... the question is why is the take up slow?....and cost is a major factor.

 

The problem with the makers is the ease of fitting to DCC ready and older designs, it does involve too much work in opening the loco up for an average owner. A near neighbour has a DCC layout, no sound, usually one loco in movement, un tuned Cv's, good average operation, which he feels has wasted hundreds of pounds now, and slows his purchase of new locos.

 

The Adams are good on space etc., and well worth converting or getting the RTR DCC versions.

 

Stephens.

[bertiedog]

 

Do you really mean On3? Or On30? A bit of a difference in gauge!

 

 

There are no RTR 0n3 with DCC, but there are people who struggle with arthritis when typing!! It's Bachmann DCC narrow gauge with sound, all bought second hand. With the large models sound works so much better.

[Oldddudders]

Most users of DCC only have one loco in motion at a time, which is fine on DC as well,.....Complex wiring or sections,...... a bit of wiring and a few switches, cost a few pounds.....average good DCC plus chips plus point motor chips, plus lighting chips for coaches, plus boosters, plus sound, plus signals....all right........ not everybody has all DCC equipment,, but this is hundreds of pounds to add to the layouts cost

 

 

The cost is not in doubt, and neither are the benefits. The wiring of a layout for DC must include a considerable degree of foresight if it is to emulate what DCC does. For example, double heading of locomotives is a very difficult thing to arrange on-layout under DC conditions. I mean the actual coupling up. With DCC it is a breeze, as you obviously know. DCC enables the operator to run his/her layout in proto fashion, DC struggles in some real-railway situations. 

 

Sound is an entirely personal thing. Many people find it ridiculously unreal. Others accept the compromise. Many of my US HO locos have sound, and all the On30 ones do. My UK and European ones do not. 

[bertiedog]

AFAIK an Olive Green version was announced, then replaced with the Sunshine Black version.

The Oxford is being done soon in Olive Green, Hornby seem to have felt it duplicated too much and as it would have been the last type in production they have dropped it.

This also means they will not have an Olive Adams to go with the Southern Olive stock coming, except for the Black Southern, which would still presumably have run with pre-war liveries intact.

Stephen

[bertiedog]

I should mention that I do have a slight carp with DCC, it was a mistake not to have built feedback from the loco to the controller, as it can only sense the decoder, this does cripple lots of options like back up low frequency speakers under the layout, although work around systems exist. The lack of feedback does not help computer control, which I have used quite a bit, but have to add sensors to the track to positively locate the engine.

Never worried about double heading coupling, it is usually done in a yard or at the station, and a strategic dead section break is all that's needed. Most locos will double head at low to medium speed without speed  miss match, unless you try a Pug with an A4.....perfectly possible in DCC of course!  the main operation that is near impossible is uncoupled rear banking, with the banking engine slowing and dropping away on the move.

Stephen

[BG John]

the main operation that is near impossible is uncoupled rear banking, with the banking engine slowing and dropping away on the move.

Isn't that something that's ideal for radio control? Surely it must be cheaper to add it to just one or two locos, and keep everything else DC.

[Ian Hargrave]

The Oxford is being done soon in Olive Green, Hornby seem to have felt it duplicated too much and as it would have been the last type in production they have dropped it.

This also means they will not have an Olive Adams to go with the Southern Olive stock coming, except for the Black Southern, which would still presumably have run with pre-war liveries intact.

Stephen

So then,on which sections of the SR did the radials operate prior to 1948 and further back into history,post 1923 ?

[Butler Henderson]

A

 

I should mention that I do have a slight carp with DCC, it was a mistake not to have built feedback from the loco to the controller, as it can only sense the decoder, this does cripple lots of options like back up low frequency speakers under the layout, although work around systems exist. The lack of feedback does not help computer control, which I have used quite a bit, but have to add sensors to the track to positively locate the engine.

Never worried about double heading coupling, it is usually done in a yard or at the station, and a strategic dead section break is all that's needed. Most locos will double head at low to medium speed without speed  miss match, unless you try a Pug with an A4.....perfectly possible in DCC of course!  the main operation that is near impossible is uncoupled rear banking, with the banking engine slowing and dropping away on the move.

Stephen

This is somewhat off thread but as someone who uses DCC and typically only has one loco moving your comments that DCC is not being used correctly in such a circumstance are way way off target. The ability to hold a loco anywhere and change the track plan without having to spend hours rewiring along with the simple interboard connections for a portable layout make analogue totally redundant in my opinion. There is also the added bonus of capping the speed of a loco - I set the shunters to crawl along at full throttle, no need to judge how far to turn the speed knob - just whack it up to max and leave the loco trundling along whilst sorting out the fiddle.

 

Back on topic - which is the better one then - Oxford or Hornby, the way I read the comments if the Oxford had clearance under the boiler that would win?

[NHY 581]

30583 has a late crest 23rd August 1959. It was repainted in early 1959.

 

30584 received the early crest in 1951 and retained it until withdrawal. Pictures taken at Eastleigh in July 1961 show it awaiting scrapping with early crest.

 

Rob.

[Mr chapman]

The Oxford is being done soon in Olive Green, Hornby seem to have felt it duplicated too much and as it would have been the last type in production they have dropped it.

This also means they will not have an Olive Adams to go with the Southern Olive stock coming, except for the Black Southern, which would still presumably have run with pre-war liveries intact.

Stephen

I have the oxford on order. I was hoping they would both produce one with alternative numbers. Oxford seam to be releasing the same loco in green and black. The only radial to tempt me from Hornby would have been the green. They do that livery well.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Just a quick warning, when I picked up my Adams tank, I asked to test it in shop and I am very glad I did so. The first had some minor details loose in the box and I asked to swap before even taking it out. The next two ran incredibly poorly, initially making half a turn before stopping briefly before not working at all. Fortunately the 4th ran sweetly and had all the detail in place, so I am very happy with it. Apparently they were the first less-than-perfect models identified by this shop.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Torn-on-the-platform

[NHY 581]

30583 has a late crest 23rd August 1959. It was repainted in early 1959.

30584 received the early crest in 1951 and retained it until withdrawal. Pictures taken at Eastleigh in July 1961 show it awaiting scrapping with early crest.

Rob.

Further to the above.....

 

The radials as modelled by Hornby mean that 30584 and 30583 are okay up until early 1959 whereas 30582 is as from early 1961......

 

Rob.

[Adams442T]

 

Back on topic - which is the better one then - Oxford or Hornby, the way I read the comments if the Oxford had clearance under the boiler that would win?

 

The fundamental thing is the the Oxford Rail Adams doesn't have the clearance, and for me that prevented a purchase of at least 3 locos.  I will be repainting the wheels with a 'better' LSWR green, and perhaps resetting the chimney but apart from that I can see little wrong with the Hornby model.

[Dunsignalling]

Further to the above.....

 

The radials as modelled by Hornby mean that 30584 and 30583 are okay up until early 1959 whereas 30582 is as from early 1961......

 

Rob.

From July 1960. 30582 was withdrawn in July 1961.

 

The model of 30583 to be sold on its own will be as running after April 1959 and the one in the train pack will be prior to that (it had a boiler swap as well as change of emblem).

 

Hornby's 30584 is OK from April 1954, when it had a boiler swap (ex-30582 which, in turn, received a previously spare Drummond one) to withdrawal (January 1961).

 

The boiler that came off 30584 in 1954 was out of use until it was fitted to 30583 in 1959, there being four boilers in total between the three locos.

 

Strictly speaking, that means that only 30584 and the train-pack version of 30583 are wholly appropriate to run with the 2-sets of rebuilt LSWR coaches, which were taken out of service in the late summer/early autumn of 1958 IIRC. 30582 and the post-1959 version of 30583 should really run with Maunsell coaches in green.

 

Fortunately, 30582 was otherwise unaltered in 1960 so I shall simply "re-crest" mine and my two locos will be OK with both types of coach - 30583 will be a bit more tricky, unless I buy both versions............

 

John

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

I should mention that I do have a slight carp with DCC, it was a mistake not to have built feedback from the loco to the controller, as it can only sense the decoder, this does cripple lots of options like back up low frequency speakers under the layout, although work around systems exist. The lack of feedback does not help computer control, which I have used quite a bit, but have to add sensors to the track to positively locate the engine.

Never worried about double heading coupling, it is usually done in a yard or at the station, and a strategic dead section break is all that's needed. Most locos will double head at low to medium speed without speed  miss match, unless you try a Pug with an A4.....perfectly possible in DCC of course!  the main operation that is near impossible is uncoupled rear banking, with the banking engine slowing and dropping away on the move.

Stephen

I remember seeing uncoupled banking being done successfully over 40 years ago, long before the advent of DCC.

 

The banking loco and the route it ran over had stud-contact and everything else was 2-rail - one track, two locos under independent control; simple.

 

John

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[olivegreen]

The Oxford is being done soon in Olive Green, Hornby seem to have felt it duplicated too much and as it would have been the last type in production they have dropped it.

This also means they will not have an Olive Adams to go with the Southern Olive stock coming, except for the Black Southern, which would still presumably have run with pre-war liveries intact.

Stephen

 

I'm not sure about the conjecture in that post, but as far as dates and liveries are concerned post 1677 on the Oxford Adams Radial thread might help.

[bertiedog]

I remember seeing uncoupled banking being done successfully over 40 years ago, long before the advent of DCC.

 

The banking loco and the route it ran over had stud-contact and everything else was 2-rail - one track, two locos under independent control; simple.

 

John

Yes, but I did say near impossible, Trix could do it, and outside third with the main insulated will do it, only DCC does it correctly, albeit a bit of planning needed to set the main train and swap over to the banker.

Stephen.

[Froxfield2012]

Just a quick warning, when I picked up my Adams tank, I asked to test it in shop and I am very glad I did so. The first had some minor details loose in the box and I asked to swap before even taking it out. The next two ran incredibly poorly, initially making half a turn before stopping briefly before not working at all. Fortunately the 4th ran sweetly and had all the detail in place, so I am very happy with it. Apparently they were the first less-than-perfect models identified by this shop.

Interesting.  Mine ran well from the box on DC.  Having taken the body off and fitted a decoder (TCS), I made a really good job of tightening up the two body retaining screws underneath.  The loco refused to move!  I untightened the two screws a little and "Hey presto", everything seems fine.  Is there some tight clearance somewhere underneath?

[Trev1073]

I had the same problem, there is no hidden screw......just a very tight body sitting on the chassis!!

 

It took me ages to get the body off but finally with left-hand finger and thumb holding the tank and right-hand finger and thumb somehow pulling on the chassis between the driving wheel the body and chassis came apart.

 

Be interesting to know which decoder you will be fitting - I put a TCS DP-UK in mine.

 

Keith

Thanks for this, managed to extract the chassis yesterday - only casualty 1 buffer which should go back OK. I have fitted a TCS DP2 decoder as I had one in stock - not had a chance to see the running on DCC but suspect it will be fine based on past experience. Just need to refit the buffer and other detailing parts and then test it later today.

 

Trev

[bertiedog]

Interesting.  Mine ran well from the box on DC.  Having taken the body off and fitted a decoder (TCS), I made a really good job of tightening up the two body retaining screws underneath.  The loco refused to move!  I untightened the two screws a little and "Hey presto", everything seems fine.  Is there some tight clearance somewhere underneath?

I have not got the loco to hand to check, but Hornby may have used the M7 method of transferring power from the pick-up plate to a stud that takes it to the DCC socket. The pickup bears on a contact under the plate, and may get out of contact if things are done up tight, distorting the pickup plate a fraction, trouble is you can't see what is happening......very frustrating. Other than that it may be a broken lead, or unclean contacts in the DCC socket, or pressure on the socket when the body is on fully.

Stephen.

[Adams442T]

My LSWR Adams arrived this morning, and after unpacking it is clear that the colour discrepancies and the 'plasticky' wheels are more apparent in digital photos than 'in the flesh'.

 

To the extent that I feel a little light weathering, as I did to my M7's, to produce a 'working engine' appearance will be all that's needed.

 

Was the daylight under the boiler issue worth paying an extra £20 for, over the Oxford Rail version?   IMHO it certainly was!  

 

I feel that Oxford need to get their 'ar&e in gear' and sort out what is now becoming a continual stream of faults; anachronistic PO liveries (I know they're not alone in this one), Adams boiler, NB wagon, LNER cattle truck and, it appears probable, the Dean Goods as well.  A shame as with a little more forethought and research they could well have captured a bigger slice of the market.