Kernow Model Rail Centre - Bulleid Diesel

[Ian Hargrave]

My modelling interest is Derbyshire and I have seen at least one photo of these machines in the Peak District (Millers Dale).

 

The BR Loco Dataabase site confirms that 10202 was delivered new to 17A (Derby) where it was shedded for 6 about months before heading to the Southern.

 

If this was indeed the cae and neither 10201 nor 10203 made it up to Derby for testing or whatever, can anyone suggest what trains 10202 would have worked on a regular basis? I've never seen any evidence of it reaching St. Pancras so maybe it ws just test workings and Derby to Manchester stoppers.

 

ANy suggestions welcome.

Only that all three Bulleid diesels were constructed at either Ashford or Brighton works and operated on the SR until transfer to the LMR in the mid 50's.The source you quote may be correct but forgive me if I'm a little sceptical of its accuracy.On the other hand the LMR twins were 17A allocated when new .If there is photographic evidence of 10202 at Derby howeverI'd be the first to hold my hand up!

I have just checked the database.No allocation is down for 10202 .Correction for the Derby twins.They were Camden allocated but Derby kept a close eye on them for a good while.....at least while they were in traffic that is

Edited March 30, 2017 by Ian Hargrave

[Graham_Muz]

See my page on the SEmG website here http://semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html

 

"Nº10201 was completed in November 1950 and commenced tests, including some trials on the London Midland region between St Pancras and Derby. Nº10201 was then displayed at the South Bank, Festival of Britain Exhibition from May 1951 and was not returned to normal traffic until the September of that year. From then both engines worked alternately with a Bournemouth line diagram.
In early 1952 both the locos were overhauled at Brighton Works, returning to the West of England line within a short period. In April 1952 a series of controlled road tests were carried out on the Waterloo-Salisbury route using Nº10202 hauling 11 bogies plus a dynamometer car. In November 1952 both were again taken out of service and sent to Brighton Works for a number of modifications to be carried out, including re-gearing to increase tractive effort. By Spring 1953 both were returned to the Western section and continued main line operations."

[RFS]

According to SEMG the 3 locos were painted green by Derby Works after transfer to the LMR - http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html

 

Here's 10202 leaving Euston in 1956 while still in black - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/Miscellaneous/Diesel-traction/i-wwFWNDp/A

 

And another of it at Euston still in black - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/Miscellaneous/Diesel-traction/i-bLdBBbV/A.

 

Some further photos here too - http://railphotoprints.uk/p177325174

Edited March 30, 2017 by RFS

[The Stationmaster]

According to SEMG the 3 locos were painted green by Derby Works after transfer to the LMR - http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html

 

Here's 10202 leaving Euston in 1956 while still in black - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/Miscellaneous/Diesel-traction/i-wwFWNDp/A

 

And another of it at Euston still in black - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/Miscellaneous/Diesel-traction/i-bLdBBbV/A.

 

Some further photos here too - http://railphotoprints.uk/p177325174

 

Including one showing it in green livery 'circa 1956' (the portrait format picture on Page 1) - in other words some of the dating on various pictures would appear to be a bit less than reliable as it is very imprecise.

[RFS]

Including one showing it in green livery 'circa 1956' (the portrait format picture on Page 1) - in other words some of the dating on various pictures would appear to be a bit less than reliable as it is very imprecise.

 

But I think it's safe to say the locos never ran on the SR in green livery. They were all transferred to the the LMR by the middle of 1955.

[Ian Hargrave]

Including one showing it in green livery 'circa 1956' (the portrait format picture on Page 1) - in other words some of the dating on various pictures would appear to be a bit less than reliable as it is very imprecise.

And an illustration of that particular point is in the dating of the Belle leaving Southampton in 1958 in one of the Photoprints.This is plainly incorrect as all were on LMR duties by then.

[Holmesfeldian]

To muddy the waters further, David N Clough in his book "Diesel Pioneers" comments....

 

10201

First trial run Ashford to Ramsgate and back, December 1950

Final adjustments and painting into black and silver livery followed by more trial runs to Rye and London Victoria, between Christmas and New Year.

Handed over to LMR based at Derby, 4th January 1951 for 2 weeks of trials over 1:100 peak line on London-Manchesters (traction motor overheating encountered).

Return to Ashford 17th January 1951 for repainting and sending to Festival of Britain for a year

Back to service February 1952.

 

10202

Entered revenue earning service on 25th September 1951 working 11.54 Waterloo-Salisbury

Subsequently worked Waterloo to Bournemouth and Exeter (3,400 to 4,120 miles per week).

No doubt based on experience with 10201 the LMR did NOT commandeer 10202!

[SRman]

Including one showing it in green livery 'circa 1956' (the portrait format picture on Page 1) - in other words some of the dating on various pictures would appear to be a bit less than reliable as it is very imprecise.

 

Such dating errors may occur with some frequency (referring to railway photos in general, not specifically those of the Bulleid diesels). I have noted one photo of a class 73 on test, from the same photographer in two different books with two substantially different dates attributed to it in the respective captions.

[cbeagleowner]

Hi Holmesfeldian - Bob Pinxton's North Midland book has a picture of 10201 at Derby in 1951 on a St. Pancras train. 

 

I've also seen a couple of pics of Green 10202 at Millers Dale in 1957 in the Lowlander book but also if you go to http://railphotoprints.uk/p177325174 they have some pics of 10202 at Derby and Disley in 1960.

 

My guess would be (uneducated of course!) that if they were overhauled at Derby works, then they would have been run in over the peak. Hence why you get random pics of 10800 and even Falcon (see here - http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_feature_424.php)though it would have been in the earliest livery of two tone green (see here - http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=830050016200)

[cbeagleowner]

One last little nugget for you from the new Midland Main Lines by John Palmer

 

Observations of

 

10201/2/3 on the 12/5 Derby - St.P in Jan 1957

 

10201/2/3 on St. Pancras- Man; Derby - Manchester and trial workings from Toton (ECS)

[Downer]

One last little nugget for you from the new Midland Main Lines by John Palmer

 

Observations of

 

10201/2/3 on the 12/5 Derby - St.P in Jan 1957

 

10201/2/3 on St. Pancras- Man; Derby - Manchester and trial workings from Toton (ECS)

 

 

It seems almost certain to me that Cricklewood borrowed one for a Tilbury boat train. 

[Gilwell Park]

It seems almost certain to me that Cricklewood borrowed one for a Tilbury boat train. 

I can't ever remember seeing one come through Walthamstow on a boat train. I might have been in school at the time though.

 

Roger

[Downer]

I can't ever remember seeing one come through Walthamstow on a boat train. I might have been in school at the time though.

 

Roger

That must have been it.

[Gilwell Park]

That must have been it.

I was too late to see Beyer Garratts although older boys claimed to have seen them. I was never quite sure they were being entirely truthful! 

 

Roger

[Godfrey Glyn]

Last Sunday at the SWAG event in Taunton Chris of Kernow very kindly allowed me to remove his 10203 from his table and run it on the modular layout which had just been set up. I am very impressed, it is heavy and it ran beautifully over the somewhat uneven un-fettled track work. IMHO it is going to be something quite special to own and I am pleased I ordered all three all those years ago when it was first announced. It will certainly be worth the wait. All I have to do now is to collect together my savings! Pity I didn't sort out some of the more obvious faults with Chard before taking the photos on the iPhone.

 

All the best

 

Godfrey

 

[No Decorum]

Thanks. Looks grand. Chris knew what he was doing, letting you photograph that!

[SGP]

Updated editions of Tintin on Black Island ..... 

 

 

[phil gollin]

.

 

Lovely photo of 10203 on your Chard layout,  HOWEVER,  Black livery with BR Early Emblem  AND  the red and white overhead electrification flash on the front ??????

 

There is a picture of a Green Bullied in 1962 with such a flash, but surely no Black/Early Emblem had them ?

 

.

[Godfrey Glyn]

.

 

Lovely photo of 10203 on your Chard layout,  HOWEVER,  Black livery with BR Early Emblem  AND  the red and white overhead electrification flash on the front ??????

 

There is a picture of a Green Bullied in 1962 with such a flash, but surely no Black/Early Emblem had them ?

 

.

 

Phil,

I didn't have much time to notice on Sunday and Chris was so busy I wouldn't have asked him if I had. I have no inside knowledge from Kernows but I agree I have never seen a photo of the white overhead flash on a black liveried Bulleid. I suspect that the manufacturer has been trying out various painting presses and wanted to demonstrate what may go on the green version - its only a guess but I seem to remember reading that they had enthusiastically added features to earlier samples. I, for one, am pretty confident that Chris will have this sorted before the final go ahead is given for production.

Thanks for the comment re Chard, I am somewhat embarrassed to see all the things that resulted from a hasty set-up and the delight in seeing the Bulleid!

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

[Ian Hargrave]

.

 

Lovely photo of 10203 on your Chard layout,  HOWEVER,  Black livery with BR Early Emblem  AND  the red and white overhead electrification flash on the front ??????

 

There is a picture of a Green Bullied in 1962 with such a flash, but surely no Black/Early Emblem had them ?

 

.

 Third rail ?    

[Tony Burgess]

This is probably a very stupid question, but what did they sound like?

 

I do ask it for a fairly good reason. I have a Silver Fox body, and having looked at my Bachmann Peaks as possible chassis donors have seen that that they are built like the proverbial brick out (sh*t) house, so sawing off 19mm from the chassis would be a monumental task, as Rembrow said.

 

I think his suggestion of the Hornby railroad Class 40 is a great idea, ad with the TTS sound versions not being that much more (I want to chip it anyway), is it worth using one with sound as a donor?

 

I do have a couple of Bachmann 40's, but one is a 21 pin, and the older other unchipped, old body style, so they may not be the best homes for a TTS sound chip and speaker.

 

So back to my original question, what did the Bullied diesels sound like, is anyone alive who could give an opinion, or could I just say 'Oh yes, they really did sound just like whistlers' and cross my fingers behind my back.

 

Jamie

I've only just returned to this thread after a rather long time.  I was researching sound for my Silver Fox / Bachmann chassis model and there was a question I never answered.  Maybe you have.  Were the locos prior to being fitted with the two air horns carrying a STEAM-type whistle?  That's how it appeared to me looking at the photos.  In which case, does anyone know what it sounded like?  EG was it similar to those fitted to Bulleid's air-smoothed beauties?

[Stevelewis]

It seems almost certain to me that Cricklewood borrowed one for a Tilbury boat train. 

 

I have  only  just  read  this  thread,   but  being  a  trainspotter  in  the  50s  ( as  most  of  my  mates were)  one  Monday morning at  break time  in  school we  were  discussing  what  we  had  seen over  the  weekend,  one  lad  said  he  had  'copped'  10202  I am  not  sure  what  his location  was  but possibly  the  Manchester  - Derby line   around the   Stockport  area  date around  1957

 

This post  refers  to  other  posts #60 etc  re  sightings

Edited May 18, 2017 by Stevelewis

[Jamiel]

I've only just returned to this thread after a rather long time.  I was researching sound for my Silver Fox / Bachmann chassis model and there was a question I never answered.  Maybe you have.  Were the locos prior to being fitted with the two air horns carrying a STEAM-type whistle?  That's how it appeared to me looking at the photos.  In which case, does anyone know what it sounded like?  EG was it similar to those fitted to Bulleid's air-smoothed beauties?

Hi Tony

 

I'm afraid the only information I go was on the engine. People remembered that they were very loud, and it was also suggested that the sound would have been similar, but not the same as a Class 40 diesel as the turbo charger was different.

 

As for the horns, I have no information at all, sorry. Perhaps someone else reading the thread may be able to offer something.

 

Jamie

[PhilH]

Nice photo of 10203 on ebay

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-XkAAOSw~y9ZEuqQ/s-l1600.jpg

[Graham_Muz]

Latest update on livery samples, delivery and pre payment details here http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/111/Bulleid_Diesel