Driving standards

[Horsetan]

I am getting worried that this thread is heading for getting locked due to the acrimony being exchanged ....

 

This is mild compared to any thread regarding Model Railway Journal.....

[beast66606]

As I've said it's time for handbags to be stashed if we want to continue with sensible discussions.

[Mod4]

I am getting worried that this thread is heading for getting locked due to the acrimony being exchanged - in fact I'm surprised that the mods have not yet taken any action.

 

PLEASE let's stop arguing and discussing potentially violent actions, and get back to the issues of discussing driving standards.

 

I stopped following this thread the last time it went into this sort of mode, but came back - was I mistaken, and are we heading for lockdown again???

 

Agreed. Please refrain from posting statements that can be construed as being violent in nature or inflammatory against other members, my diodes just cant take any more to mix references...

[newbryford]

I am getting worried that this thread is heading for getting locked due to the acrimony being exchanged - in fact I'm surprised that the mods have not yet taken any action.

 

PLEASE let's stop arguing and discussing potentially violent actions, and get back to the issues of discussing driving standards.

 

I stopped following this thread the last time it went into this sort of mode, but came back - was I mistaken, and are we heading for lockdown again???

 

We've not done too badly since this was on page 1 (of 95.....) Virtually 12 months ago.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited August 4, 2016 by newbryford

[jonny777]

Exactly.

 

As soon as there is anything resembling a difference of opinion on any thread, along come the sanctimonious, holier than thou comments - at first predicting the thread will be locked (which is really just a nudge to the mods to do as they are told), and if that doesn't work the patronising comments follow telling us how naughty we have been and that grown adults should not have polarised opinions... blah blah.

 

The irony is that you cannot have a discussion about driving standards without some people assuming their standard is better than others; and as the 'others' tend to be anonymous (in so far as they did not give their name and address as they cut you up) those folk who are self appointed superior drivers for whatever reason, have no idea who they are criticising. Some may also be lurking or even contributing here.

 

Therefore there will always be arguments, because those deemed to be in the wrong are likely to have plenty of reasons to defend what they were doing but we never see both sides of the situation at the same time.

 

So, maybe the solution is not to lock the thread, or even plead/forecast/demand that it be locked; but to assume that with responsible adults the arguments may get somewhat heated at times, but most contributors know not to cross the line between basic argument and personal insults.

[Coryton]

Conan Doyle and Dickens both used the term in their writings. It also occurs in marine usage - "sail before steam" and the like, a vessel is said to be "under way" when in motion. Americans DO use the term but didn't invent it

 

I believe that it's also a term used in fencing (the sport, not installing fences) and I imagine it's been in use for a fair while.

[raymw]

Americans are entitled to use the phrase 'right of way', but we drive on the left...

 

 

time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana

[Jenny Emily]

I've noticed recently that the number of cars emitting blue oil burning smoke is on the rise. I can only assume that many people never change the oil on their vehicles for whatever reason, eventually resulting in engine failure. I got overhauled today by a number of vehicles between 09 and 13 plate all emitting blue when the drivers put their foot down. Also a lot of diesel cars belching thick black smoke on throttle application. Dirty injectors, again through no maintenance? I always thought excessive visible exhaust emissions was an immediate MOT fail.

 

I've also seen lots of vehicle fires over the last few weeks. Again, poor maintenance to blame? The M62 westbound past the little house on the prairie has numerous scorch marks on the hard shoulder from recent vehicle fires.

[coachmann]

Black or grey smoke........People don't run their new cars in like they used. 'Running in ~ please pass' stickers in back windows used to be a regular sight many moons ago. 

[royaloak]

Some of the new cars will go into 'cat clean' mode (not sure of real name) where it will inject more fuel to make the exhaust hotter so it burns the crud off the cat (it will also retard the ignition so performance remains the same) so it could be this which is causing the blue/black smoke. One of the issies with this is if you switch your engine off during this procedure it just clogs the cat even more.

 

It could also be clogged injectors or air filter, low oil level etc etc.

[newbryford]

Modern diesels are notorious for emitting smoke with a heavy acceleration.

(Apologies for the railway related off-topic) It's even apparent with the likes of class 70s when working hard.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[newbryford]

Black or grey smoke........People don't run their new cars in like they used. 'Running in ~ please pass' stickers in back windows used to be a regular sight many moons ago. 

 

"Running in" is a thing of the past. Simply because modern manufacturing tolerances are finer and engines need far less bedding in.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[peanuts]

Some of the new cars will go into 'cat clean' mode (not sure of real name) where it will inject more fuel to make the exhaust hotter so it burns the crud off the cat (it will also retard the ignition so performance remains the same) so it could be this which is causing the blue/black smoke. One of the issies with this is if you switch your engine off during this procedure it just clogs the cat even more.

 

It could also be clogged injectors or air filter, low oil level etc etc.

my truck would do this on a regular basis whilst driving along so that it could clear the dpf symbol would light up on dash and exhaust would turn blue for a few miles cue lots of lights flashing and gesticulating from passing motorists ended up making a laminate sign to stic in the window when it did it . . if it didnt finnish the cycle would have to do it stationary which means leaving it running with it switched over to re gen whilst it did it usualy 30 mins if that failed its into the garage for a forced regen which takes half a day and uses all the engine oil for some reason . saves on add blu i suppose 

[jonny777]

Modern diesels are notorious for emitting smoke with a heavy acceleration.

(Apologies for the railway related off-topic) It's even apparent with the likes of class 70s when working hard.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

I used to drive a Mk2 Cortina which had done well over 100k miles and that used to produce a thick blue/grey smokescreen at the rear if I put my foot down too hard on the accelerator; because the cylinder head gaskets were well worn.

 

However, it was a surefire way of dealing with tail-gaters, as long as there were no police cars around.

[br2975]

Very topical that I should find this thread rejuvenated - as some @rse hit my parked car overnight Friday/Saturday, then disappeared without stopping.

.

Albeit, the damage is quite minimal (rear o/s light cluster cracked, rear o/s panel and rear o/s door scuffed) and would probably be cheaper to resolve without involving my insurers.

.

However, my subsequent involvement with my local police put a tin hat on my weekend !

.

Through the '101' system I tried to report the 'damage only, fail to stop r.t.a.' to the South Wales Police, Public Service Centre.

.

"Do you have the registration of the offending vehicle ?" I was asked.

"No" I replied

"Then I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do !"

"Why"

"Well without the registration number, there are no investigative opportunities"

"I'm not asking you to investigate it"

"Then why are you calling us ?"

"Because Sections 170(2) and (3)  of the Road Traffic Act requires a person to report it to either a police constable, or at a police station!"

"But you weren't driving"

"Yes but the other driver may, just may, have reported it to his or her local police station, if they could find it open - and then South Wales Police could collate their report with mine, Section 170 could then be complied with"

"In my twenty three years with the police I find that highly unlikely, I don't recall an offending driver reporting an accident"

"In my thrity six years with the police, I can tell you far stranger things have happened"

"For someone with that length of police service, you sound very anti-police !"

.

I wonder why ?

[coachmann]

Always best to report and get an incident number I find just in case. A motorbike went under the back of my car once and as I could see what was going to happen I let off my handbrake to help cushion his impact. We sat the biker on a wall and he insisted he was okay although his bike wasn't! I had only a minor impact mark (thank goodness for plastic body panels in the right places). Then I called in a police station to report in incident just in case the bikers family decided I had driven backwards at high speed towards their dad!

Edited August 7, 2016 by coachmann

[Kickstart]

I've noticed recently that the number of cars emitting blue oil burning smoke is on the rise. I can only assume that many people never change the oil on their vehicles for whatever reason, eventually resulting in engine failure. I got overhauled today by a number of vehicles between 09 and 13 plate all emitting blue when the drivers put their foot down. Also a lot of diesel cars belching thick black smoke on throttle application. Dirty injectors, again through no maintenance? I always thought excessive visible exhaust emissions was an immediate MOT fail.

Suspect some of it is also the move to increasingly more cars using very thin oils as a way to try and improve fuel consumption. 5W30 is very common not. 

 

Some of the new cars will go into 'cat clean' mode (not sure of real name) where it will inject more fuel to make the exhaust hotter so it burns the crud off the cat (it will also retard the ignition so performance remains the same) so it could be this which is causing the blue/black smoke. One of the issies with this is if you switch your engine off during this procedure it just clogs the cat even more.

 

Suspect with diesels this is a way to wangle the emissions tests. Catch the nasties when it is in a situation that might happen when it is having a homologaton test, and when safe from tests it just burns it all off and dumps smoke over everyone behind.

 

"Running in" is a thing of the past. Simply because modern manufacturing tolerances are finer and engines need far less bedding in.

While that is often given as a reason, I suspect it has more to do with marketing than the actual engineering.

 

Although possibly people these days are more likely to incur extra wear by revving engines when still cold.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[cheesysmith]

I believe the diesel exhaust bit on the MOT no longer includes the excessive smoke when rev'ed bit. There was a augment that any damage that may have been caused to the engine revving with no load would have made the test station liable, but as they would have been following the standards laid down by the test, that would have made the DOT liable. Of course, no glove meant department likes to pay out, the departments involved in transport re probably the worst.

[ParkeNd]

"Running in" is a thing of the past. Simply because modern manufacturing tolerances are finer and engines need far less bedding in.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

I you purchase a new car outright then reading the owners manual is the normal way of things - and then you see it advises not exceeding say 3000 rpm and not labouring the engine in a high gear for the first 1500 miles. So no longer called Running In but restraint advised.

 

If however you are a company car driver or are effectively short term renting it on a PCP (about 75%+ of new car drivers I believe) then it's 0 to 125 mph straight off the forecourt - it doesn't have to last long because you don't ever own it. 

[Jenny Emily]

Heavy revving when cold reminds me of my late Grandmother, who only passed her test on the fifth attempt because she was stuck for an hour in a traffic jam after turning out of the testing centre. Apparently even though she had driven nowhere and not been assessed on anything, they had to pass her as technically she had completed the allotted time without making any faults.

 

She had a nasty habit of starting her car from cold then revving its guts out whilst trying to get it off the drive. She went through many clutches, and never mastered fifth gear, motorway driving or indeed using full lock on the steering. Her last car, a G reg Fiesta outlived her, and made it to 120,000 miles under the driving of my sister who inherited it before it was written off in London by a red light jumper.

[Guest]

I you purchase a new car outright then reading the owners manual is the normal way of things - and then you see it advises not exceeding say 3000 rpm and not labouring the engine in a high gear for the first 1500 miles. So no longer called Running In but restraint advised.

 

<reads manual>

 

For first 625 miles

• Avoid full throttle starts
• Do not change the oil
• Do not tow a trailer

 

But I like changing the oil!

[Horsetan]

I you purchase a new car outright then reading the owners manual is the normal way of things - and then you see it advises not exceeding say 3000 rpm and not labouring the engine in a high gear for the first 1500 miles. So no longer called Running In but restraint advised.

 

If however you are a company car driver or are effectively short term renting it on a PCP (about 75%+ of new car drivers I believe) then it's 0 to 125 mph straight off the forecourt - it doesn't have to last long because you don't ever own it. 

One of the the livery owners at the yard, an eccentric old bird with idiosyncratic ideas on how to apply make-up (think Mrs. Doyle in the Pat Mustard episode), has a 2009 Corsa 1.2 - it rattles like hell at idle, and I'm convinced the valve train has had it after successive oil changes with the wrong grade of oil (too thin) being used.

[cheesysmith]

The comments about "right of way" reminded me of a little conversation I had the other day with the owner of a rather flash audi. I was driving a volvo gemini B9, 12.5tons of volvos finest, and comming down hill as passing a parked car. He was comming up hill, and also had a parked car on his side of the road. I did indicate and was actually pulling out to pass the parked car when the audi actually speeded up and tried to pass the parked car on his side of the road, without indicating or giving and other notice of what he intended. We both had to stop, and this audi driver started with some colourful verbal phrases. I did point out that i was indicating to pass the car, was already commited, to which he said didn`t you see me. My reply of with what, telepathic indicators? didn`t go down well. When i then pointed out that if he hadn`t accelerated to try and beat me, i would have already pulled back and he could have passed me, without this delay to his journey also wasn`t well receved. I then pointed out to his argument of it was his "right of way" that if you are going uphill and lift off the gas pedal, what happens?, and when going down hill what happens?, so what do you think is safer in such a situation? I then asked why do you think that uphill handbrake starts are part of the driving test.

 

The driving you see every day round our busy cities makes me glad the only driving I try and do in cities now is in something big, solid, bus shaped. Too many self important (to paraphrase the big bang theory) DUMBASS out there.

[kevinlms]

Heavy revving when cold reminds me of my late Grandmother, who only passed her test on the fifth attempt because she was stuck for an hour in a traffic jam after turning out of the testing centre. Apparently even though she had driven nowhere and not been assessed on anything, they had to pass her as technically she had completed the allotted time without making any faults.

 

She had a nasty habit of starting her car from cold then revving its guts out whilst trying to get it off the drive. She went through many clutches, and never mastered fifth gear, motorway driving or indeed using full lock on the steering. Her last car, a G reg Fiesta outlived her, and made it to 120,000 miles under the driving of my sister who inherited it before it was written off in London by a red light jumper.

People like that ought to drive automatics. Yes, I don't like the idea of them being on the road at all, but at least its one less thing for them to master. The extra price for an automatic, including a slight increase in fuel consumption, would have more than been compensated by the clutch replacements.

[kevinlms]

A fellow club member recently retired, after many years of driving and manoeuvring cement mixers. In his opinion, the worst drivers of large heavy vehicles are bus drivers, because they only ever go forward!

 

I've never driven any large heavy vehicle, so no idea of the truth of the above.