Driving standards

[njee20]

My understanding it was for normal use.

Presume it is to underline how vital it is to know what is going on around, but think it is a dumb idea too

All the best

Katy

Seems pretty stupid. If you've somehow missed another road user despite your advancedness, then not indicating could compound that situation.

[TheQ]

I've just completed reading every post in this thread, yes really, I was that bored.

So I decided to go through the problems with each vehicle I have and the corresponding driving standards. There are six of them

So I'll start with the largest.

 

It's 2.6 tons and 27ft long and mostly white. It's a motor boat. £6000, needs more work...

Now you may wonder what that has to do driving standards... We shall see..

 

On the broads we have:

Wafi's, Wind assisted flaming idiots.

Mafi's Motor assisted flaming idiots,

Oafi's, Oar assisted flaming idiots,

Fafi's, Fishing assisted flaming idiots ( who may or may not be also one of the above.)

 

We have the same arguments between the afi's as you do on the road, the biggest problem is those who haven't who haven't read the rules at all, there is no requirement to do so!!!.

 

So from the motorboats point of view;

1, You've just left the hire yard in your boat with a whole half hour instruction, junior get the fishing rod out and is dragging a lure along the river as pass the pretty chalets on the river banks.

2,You come across a wafi sailing toward's you on your side of the river what an idiot! You know you have to avoid sailing boats, so you weave out barely under control, and give your opinion to the sailer.

3, As you pass round the corner you find another one zigzagging across the river another idiot why can't he keep to one side? So you drive up the right hand bank and toot your horn and shout angrily as they 6 ft from your hull, you don't want to lose your collision deposit, they turn 6 inches from it looking at you like you're an idiot.

 

4, Then you come across a fishing dinghy, rods and lines out in all directions where do you go now? More shouting.

 

So who was in the right?

Well it's not your fault you only got half an hour's instruction and most of that was how to turn the engine on and use the loo's but if you had decent teaching that would be most of your holiday.

 

1, fishing from a boat under way by sail or motor is illegal on the broads.

 

2, sailing boats need to use the wind where ever they can find it, they have no " right side of the river" you should look out for an indication from someone on the sailing boat where to go, which normally would be to point at you and then point where they want you to go. If they fail to give and indication moving out into the river is the right move.

 

3, sailing boats cannot sail directly into the wind therefore have to sail from side to make forward progress, to pass them you should adjust your speed so that you arrive at their stern just as they turn away from your right hand bank. Then go forward at the maximum legal speed,. Which In a village is 4 mph.... Walking pace!!!!! Sailing boats on the broads can turn on a sixpence, six inches from each other is a long way.

 

4. Fishermen are not allowed to block the navigation whether on a boat or on the bank nor are they allowed to block moorings by fishing, but must move if requested. If you can, your move is to motor around, but if there is no room to do so then it is time to beep the horn...

 

 

There have been comments about boat, Waaaay back in this thread.

 

1 the first rule of navigation is to avoid collision what ever you are in.

 

2, steam gives way to sail but.....

 

A, Any vessel must give way to another that is limited in its ability to manouver ( by size or draft or any other reason), whatever types of boat they and you are.

 

B, you are required to give boats time to manouver, so if you decide to sail up to to a supertanker you need to allow several miles for it to turn!!!!

 

C, you maybe a work boat / ferry etc but you do have to avoid sailing boats except under A and B.

 

D, in certain areas like the Solent or the Norfolk Broads, they have their own regulations, You need to know them, if you use them...

 

 

 

Next time if I haven't bored you too much, something more conventional....

[chris p bacon]

There have been comments about boat, Waaaay back in this thread.

 

1 the first rule of navigation is to avoid collision what ever you are in.

 

2, steam gives way to sail but.....

 

A, Any vessel must give way to another that is limited in its ability to manouver ( by size or draft or any other reason), whatever types of boat they and you are.

 

B, you are required to give boats time to manouver, so if you decide to sail up to to a supertanker you need to allow several miles for it to turn!!!!

 

C, you maybe a work boat / ferry etc but you do have to avoid sailing boats except under A and B.

 

D, in certain areas like the Solent or the Norfolk Broads, they have their own regulations, You need to know them, if you use them...

 Just a quick one on that.

 

1971/2 British Surveyor, loaded and making a transit of the channel from the Gulf to Europort (Holland),  as she gets nearer to the narrowest point over the radio comes "Steam gives way to sail"... there are a couple of small sailing vessels. Radio officer replies "Unable to manouvre, please alter your course" the reply comes back, "you must give way to sail"  this time the Captain (Lenny Pugh? IIRC) says on the radio "Please put it in writing, until you do, alter your course"

 

They were a small group of yachts out sailing, Brit Surveyor was a 200,000T+ tanker. The yacht owner registered an official complaint to BP, (I think I've still got a copy in dads things) needless to say he was made aware of just how much room she needed to manouvre (5 mile stop, 2-3 miles to turn).

[62613]

 Just a quick one on that.

 

1971/2 British Surveyor, loaded and making a transit of the channel from the Gulf to Europort (Holland),  as she gets nearer to the narrowest point over the radio comes "Steam gives way to sail"... there are a couple of small sailing vessels. Radio officer replies "Unable to manouvre, please alter your course" the reply comes back, "you must give way to sail"  this time the Captain (Lenny Pugh? IIRC) says on the radio "Please put it in writing, until you do, alter your course"

 

They were a small group of yachts out sailing, Brit Surveyor was a 200,000T+ tanker. The yacht owner registered an official complaint to BP, (I think I've still got a copy in dads things) needless to say he was made aware of just how much room she needed to manouvre (5 mile stop, 2-3 miles to turn).

Who was he, Chris? I often heard stories, in BP, of ships coming out of The Gulf with bits of dhow and fishing gear hanging off the bow.

[jjb1970]

Splendid to hear that Wafi is still used!!

[chris p bacon]

Who was he, Chris? I often heard stories, in BP, of ships coming out of The Gulf with bits of dhow and fishing gear hanging off the bow.

Dad was Chf Eng and was on the bridge at the time.

He did say that in the 50's they would port at Cape town on the way back round Cape Horn and find bits of net but had no recollection of hitting anything. from 60's onwards radar was much improved and they could spot a small rowing boat from miles away.

[laurenceb]

I've just completed reading every post in this thread, yes really, I was that bored.

So I decided to go through the problems with each vehicle I have and the corresponding driving standards. There are six of them

So I'll start with the largest.

 

It's 2.6 tons and 27ft long and mostly white. It's a motor boat. £6000, needs more work...

Now you may wonder what that has to do driving standards... We shall see..

 

On the broads we have:

Wafi's, Wind assisted flaming idiots.

Mafi's Motor assisted flaming idiots,

Oafi's, Oar assisted flaming idiots,

Fafi's, Fishing assisted flaming idiots ( who may or may not be also one of the above.)

 

 

Flaming idiots?

[JDW]

I've just completed reading every post in this thread, yes really, I was that bored.

So I decided to go through the problems with each vehicle I have and the corresponding driving standards. There are six of them

So I'll start with the largest.

 

It's 2.6 tons and 27ft long and mostly white. It's a motor boat. £6000, needs more work...

Now you may wonder what that has to do driving standards... We shall see..

 

On the broads we have:

Wafi's, Wind assisted flaming idiots.

Mafi's Motor assisted flaming idiots,

Oafi's, Oar assisted flaming idiots,

Fafi's, Fishing assisted flaming idiots ( who may or may not be also one of the above.)

 

We have the same arguments between the afi's as you do on the road, the biggest problem is those who haven't who haven't read the rules at all, there is no requirement to do so!!!.

 

So from the motorboats point of view;

1, You've just left the hire yard in your boat with a whole half hour instruction, junior get the fishing rod out and is dragging a lure along the river as pass the pretty chalets on the river banks.

2,You come across a wafi sailing toward's you on your side of the river what an idiot! You know you have to avoid sailing boats, so you weave out barely under control, and give your opinion to the sailer.

3, As you pass round the corner you find another one zigzagging across the river another idiot why can't he keep to one side? So you drive up the right hand bank and toot your horn and shout angrily as they 6 ft from your hull, you don't want to lose your collision deposit, they turn 6 inches from it looking at you like you're an idiot.

 

4, Then you come across a fishing dinghy, rods and lines out in all directions where do you go now? More shouting.

 

So who was in the right?

Well it's not your fault you only got half an hour's instruction and most of that was how to turn the engine on and use the loo's but if you had decent teaching that would be most of your holiday.

 

1, fishing from a boat under way by sail or motor is illegal on the broads.

 

2, sailing boats need to use the wind where ever they can find it, they have no " right side of the river" you should look out for an indication from someone on the sailing boat where to go, which normally would be to point at you and then point where they want you to go. If they fail to give and indication moving out into the river is the right move.

 

3, sailing boats cannot sail directly into the wind therefore have to sail from side to make forward progress, to pass them you should adjust your speed so that you arrive at their stern just as they turn away from your right hand bank. Then go forward at the maximum legal speed,. Which In a village is 4 mph.... Walking pace!!!!! Sailing boats on the broads can turn on a sixpence, six inches from each other is a long way.

 

4. Fishermen are not allowed to block the navigation whether on a boat or on the bank nor are they allowed to block moorings by fishing, but must move if requested. If you can, your move is to motor around, but if there is no room to do so then it is time to beep the horn...

 

 

There have been comments about boat, Waaaay back in this thread.

 

1 the first rule of navigation is to avoid collision what ever you are in.

 

2, steam gives way to sail but.....

 

A, Any vessel must give way to another that is limited in its ability to manouver ( by size or draft or any other reason), whatever types of boat they and you are.

 

B, you are required to give boats time to manouver, so if you decide to sail up to to a supertanker you need to allow several miles for it to turn!!!!

 

C, you maybe a work boat / ferry etc but you do have to avoid sailing boats except under A and B.

 

D, in certain areas like the Solent or the Norfolk Broads, they have their own regulations, You need to know them, if you use them...

 

 

 

Next time if I haven't bored you too much, something more conventional....

 

Been on the Broads many a time, though not for a fair few years.  Never realised that it was illegal to fish from a moving boat.  Not that it's not something I've ever needed to know, I don't fish, but even to me it would seem not to be a very sensible idea on a busy waterway.  I did once get told off by the water police for doing 5mph in a 4mph limit though :-o

[TheQ]

Flaming idiots?

 

Well this is a family audience, other words begining with F have been used, which if the sailing boat is racing and is the provider of such a word, it is disqualification due to unsportsman(woman)like conduct. (used to be called ungentlemanly conduct)

 

Been on the Broads many a time, though not for a fair few years.  Never realised that it was illegal to fish from a moving boat.  Not that it's not something I've ever needed to know, I don't fish, but even to me it would seem not to be a very sensible idea on a busy waterway.  I did once get told off by the water police for doing 5mph in a 4mph limit though :-o

You can actually drift or be under Oar power and fish as long as you don't obstruct the navigation.

 Most fines on the broads are up to £2000, but are rarely applied, normally for refusing to obay the instructions of the Police /Park Ranger, or more commonly being drunk in charge and ramming things...

 

We do have police on the river occasionally, I once helped with their enquiries,  I was holding on to the bank in a rescue boat, between races when two police persons (One M one F) leapt on board and said please take us that way, have you seen XXXX boat? I hadn't seen the boat, but I spent the next half hour looking up and down back dykes looking for a stolen day boat. (it was eventaully found abandoned elsewhere).

 

Years ago before the Broads authority you would have been stopped by River Inspectors dressed in blue, sort of half way between the police and a traffic warden. Now you would be stopped by Park Rangers generally dressed in green, even though IT IS NOT A NATIONAL PARK, the BA are park of the National park family but not a national park because navigation has an equal footing with conservation. Although the current BA chairman has got a very bad name for himself by repeatedly trying to make it a National Park.

 

"From Lord de Mauley (DEFRA) to Dr John Packman (Broads Authority).

In terms of government policy, the Broads is treated as a member of the national parks family 

although its statutory basis is quite separate and IT IS NOT LEGALLY A NATIONAL PARK. 

We do not propose to change this position and it is DEFRA's intention that the three purposes of 

the Broads remain of equal standing."

 

Oh should anyone be thinking of a holiday on the broads the previous events reported by me are rare, but do happen, just come on holiday it's a wonderful place, slow down and relax. If anyone does think of coming down for a holiday on land or water I'd be happy to advise where I can.

Edited January 20, 2017 by TheQ

[Baby Deltic]

I got peeped at as I signalled left to turn off and stopped because a person was crossing the side road.

 

THEY HAVE PRIORITY

 

Idiot though was one of those front foglight knobs

I didn't think that rule applied if you were turning left off a grass verge. ;-)

[TheQ]

The second largest Vehicle of Mine is a LandRover 110 van, that's being precise, It's not a Series which were built up to 1985 And not a Defender which were built from 1991.

It was Built in 1984 it looks, to most, like a defender but that name didn't come in till 1991.

It's also Not exactly standard, It has a later Landrover engine (lightly tweeked), a Discovery Transfer box, galvanised, chassis, bulkhead and door frames, stainless exhaust. and vast amounts of sound /heat insulation in the back and front.

 

It also has different "crystal" headlights running standard 55W bulbs, much brighter than the Landrover carp ones but not blinding like HIDs!!

It also has all the other lights replaced by LEDs, Now it's illegal to fit LED's to your old lights as the assembly of your old light body and new LEDs have not been tested and approved. Luckily for Land Rover owners you can buy E marked complete replacements that are potted, so whereas the Carp standard lights that cost £3 each, fill up with water, these complete assemblies don't let water in, but do cost about £20 each.

 

So I now get 32MPG, It's runs on 80% vegi oil in the summer, down to pure diesel  when it's frosty.

It's also faster than a normal Landrover..... I belive from reports of this conversion it will give 95 mph not bad for a flying brick... 

 

 I use it for carrying model railway layouts, Towing boats, the odd caravan, getting tons of sand from the nearest quarry, and in the winter it gets me through on our ungritted,  unploughed, road when a car wouldn't.

 

The problems of driving a Real Land Rover:

People assume you are farmer Giles, never going over 30mph, so there you are trundelling along at 30 in a 30 limit, and they are all over the back of you trying to get past. You get to the edge of town and providing they are held back by the traffic, I accelerate up to 60 mph leaving them to wander along at 50mph.

 

The 110 also has the problem that you approach a turning and they have seen you. They decide,  you're a landrover going slowly, pull out are very surprised to find 1.8 tones of 110 arriving rapidly with smoking tyres from braking. That's happened a few times, though so far I have managed to avoid them...

 

The Greens get all upset when  I drive into town, why am I using a 4x4 they should all be banned!!!, funny how most Greens live in towns and very rarely venture out. If they do it's in there car with bicycles on the back so they can ride around in the countryside complaining the "quiet lane" bicycle routes have tractors and landrovers on them....

,

I've had cyclist pull out of a side road across the front of me, complete with ear phones on She didn't hear me or see my headlights, My new-ish engine is the noisiest Landrover made.....!!! She got a severe wobble on when I stopped 18 inches from her front wheel....

 

Another problem for me is that in recent years farmers have taken to loading sugar beet direct from the field in to an artic a huge mechanical conveyor belt appears over the hedge and drops the beet straight in. Fine on a two way road but it's all single track round here. So a few weeks ago seeing the artic pull up and the beet start thundering over into the back I had a look at the VERGE, but that was not suitable it had ditches 3 foot deep and drainage cuts from the road into the ditches.   Also the odd beet was coming over the far side like a bomb....

 

So what did I do, well it's my home road so I know the layout of the fields, I drove in the field entrance, around well clear of everything and back onto the road at the other entrance further on.  Much to the amazement of a Daihatsu 4X4 (I'm not jokeing) sat paitiently behind the artic waiting.....

[Horsetan]

.... I had a look at the VERGE, but that was not suitable it had ditches 3 foot deep ....

 

Sounds like you and MJI should compare notes.... 

[TheQ]

Sounds like you and MJI should compare notes.... 

I've read every post in this thread I HAVE compared notes

[njee20]

The problems of driving a Real Land Rover:

People assume you are farmer Giles, never going over 30mph, so there you are trundelling along at 30 in a 30 limit, and they are all over the back of you trying to get past. You get to the edge of town and providing they are held back by the traffic, I accelerate up to 60 mph leaving them to wander along at 50mph.

How are they all over the back of you, only to be held up by traffic? I can't imagine the acceleration of your MaxPower Land Rover is that epic you're leaving them in your wake?

 

I've had cyclist pull out of a side road across the front of me, complete with ear phones on She didn't hear me or see my headlights, My new-ish engine is the noisiest Landrover made.....!!! She got a severe wobble on when I stopped 18 inches from her front wheel

Can't work this out either. So I'll just say cool story.

[Horsetan]

....I've had cyclist pull out of a side road across the front of me, complete with ear phones on. She didn't hear me or see my headlights, My new-ish engine is the noisiest Landrover made.....!!! She got a severe wobble on when I stopped 18 inches from her front wheel....

 

Come to London. There are a few of these whizzing around, generally in the suburbs. And they wear black! Some of them don't have lights or any reflective material, either.

[TheQ]

"How are they all over the back of you, only to be held up by traffic? I can't imagine the acceleration of your MaxPower Land Rover is that epic you're leaving them in your wake?"

 

They are behind me in a village inches from the Land rover moving out to look to see if they can get past but moving back in every time a car comes the other way.

 

It's  not that epic accelerating in  almost any land rover,  if a I get a vehicle or two coming the other way as I leave the 30 Speed limit,  that stops them overtaking at that point, allowing my Land rover to gather pace and reach the 60 limit. I've often found that those that are most anxious to get past, are the same ones that then drive at 40 or 50 in a 60 limit. they drive at 40 /50 whether they are in a village or out on the open road therefore I leave them behind...

The Hot shots that do drive in excess of the speed limit in and out of town,  do pass me once they are out of town and disappear off at 80 -90 mph...

 

"Can't work this out either. So I'll just say cool story"

 

Land Rovers are Not quiet vehicles from outside, the Land Rover 200TDI engine  I have, being particularly noisy, it only lasted a very few years in production and they redesigned it into the 300 TDI to reduce noise. No power increase or anything like that.

The Young lady on the Bicycle who cycled out on me,  failed to notice my Land Rover rumbling, along, tappets rattling, semi off road tyres vibrating on the road, head lights on.  How can you miss a noisy, illuminated, big red  and white brick coming towards you?

Edited January 20, 2017 by TheQ

[njee20]

So idiot drivers are idiots. Agree with that!

 

I got the missing seeing you bit, was trying to work out how you ended up stopped near her front wheel. But again, idiots are idiots.

[TheQ]

Come to London. There are a few of these whizzing around, generally in the suburbs. And they wear black! Some of them don't have lights or any reflective material, either.

Nicknamed in the landrover world "Chelsea Tractors"  normally they have so much done to them to make them comfortable, they are totally Carp if they go off road or even hit a muddy bit.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Top marks to today's Police officers in pursuit of clearly speeding miscreant. They stuck to 30mph recognising that the several turns ahead would 'derail' speeding man, especially with the black ice and no gritting thoughtfully provided by Hertfordshire...

[chris p bacon]

  How can you miss a noisy, illuminated, big red  and white brick coming towards you?

iPod.

 

You see them on runners and cyclists around here, they have no idea what's approaching from behind and are generally in their own world.

 

As an aside to this, I've helped marshall a 10 mile road race for a few years (17!) it's organised by the local athletic club (son is member, now chairman) and has 650 entrants, a few years ago they issued a notice to every entrant that iPods are not to be worn and that disqualification was the penalty if you did.

For the first year they just made all aware that wore them that they would not tolerate it the following year, and showed them how much they were distracted by them. Since then I think only 2 have been disqualified for ignoring instructions due to iPod wearing and now most members at the club agree that they don't actually help and they are too much of a distraction from traffic around you.

[JDW]

 

I've had cyclist pull out of a side road across the front of me, complete with ear phones on She didn't hear me or see my headlights, My new-ish engine is the noisiest Landrover made.....!!! She got a severe wobble on when I stopped 18 inches from her front wheel....

 

 

They can't see my 18+ metre long, 2.5 metre wide, 3 metre high bus coming towards them, lit up like a Christmas tree.  You have no chance.  Although yesterday's jogger was quite comical when he realised I was turning in to the junction he was about to run across, did a comedy stop and a panicked jump back :-D

[MJI]

The second largest Vehicle of Mine is a LandRover 110 van, that's being precise, It's not a Series which were built up to 1985 And not a Defender which were built from 1991.

It was Built in 1984 it looks, to most, like a defender but that name didn't come in till 1991.

It's also Not exactly standard, It has a later Landrover engine (lightly tweeked), a Discovery Transfer box, galvanised, chassis, bulkhead and door frames, stainless exhaust. and vast amounts of sound /heat insulation in the back and front.

 

So I now get 32MPG, It's runs on 80% vegi oil in the summer, down to pure diesel  when it's frosty.

It's also faster than a normal Landrover..... I belive from reports of this conversion it will give 95 mph not bad for a flying brick... 

The problems of driving a Real Land Rover:

People assume you are farmer Giles, never going over 30mph, so there you are trundelling along at 30 in a 30 limit, and they are all over the back of you trying to get past. You get to the edge of town and providing they are held back by the traffic, I accelerate up to 60 mph leaving them to wander along at 50mph.

 

The 110 also has the problem that you approach a turning and they have seen you. They decide,  you're a landrover going slowly, pull out are very surprised to find 1.8 tones of 110 arriving rapidly with smoking tyres from braking. That's happened a few times, though so far I have managed to avoid them...

 

..

 

 

I find this with my Discovery.

 

It is a Diesel, sounds like one, but goes pretty well.

 

And yes it will out accelerate quite a few cars at legal speeds

 

People need to understand that a lot of these truck like vehicles can have very capable engines in them. That any Defenders 98 to 07 may be running a remap and over 200bhp. That a 90 or 110 may be running a V8. They may see a polished up newish one and think that would be quick, but no the quickest are pre 2007.

 

A Series is not a Defender, and the pre TDI200 are 90 and 110 to me.

[MJI]

How are they all over the back of you, only to be held up by traffic? I can't imagine the acceleration of your MaxPower Land Rover is that epic you're leaving them in your wake?

.

 

Because he is doing 30 in a 30.

 

As to acceleration my Diesel Discovery 2 can get under 10 seconds 0-60, don't knock them

[Jol Wilkinson]

 Pleased (not) to note an AUDI driver living up to their reputation today by going through a red light a couple of seconds after it changed from amber.  This from starting in a queue of about eight cars so not doing any real speed.  Special rules apply?

[MJI]

 Pleased (not) to note an AUDI driver living up to their reputation today by going through a red light a couple of seconds after it changed from amber.  This from starting in a queue of about eight cars so not doing any real speed.  Special rules apply?

 

 

They have taken over as the c0ckmobiles

 

As a BMW owner told me, the badly driven ones are basic spec repmobiles and the better privately owned cars, and the M cars are usually driven well