Driving standards

[62613]

Absolutely essential in Redditch, where in pre Sat-Nav days I spent ages going round and round the ringway trying to get to the Holiday Inn Express near the station that I could clearly see from the ringway, but could not work out how the hell to get to!

 

Jim

Is Redditch one of the worst towns in England to navigate? I well remember trying to get to The Valley (Redditch United FC) one saturday; I finally reached it (from The Ringway) half an hour after kick-off.

[Ian Smeeton]

I think that Burton on Trent is the worst.

 

25 or so years ago, I had to go there on a regular basis to the old Midland Railway Goods Warehouse, (Cargo Bonding, as was).

 

I could come in to town on the same road  two or three or more successive days, I could see my destination, but I could never get there directly.

 

I would end up circumnavigating the one way system, a different way each time..

 

I reckon that there was so much beer in Burton that the roads partied all night, and rearranged themselves for the following day.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[laurenceb]

Idiot on a bike doing a wheely on the wrong side of the road till he noticed a bus loading in front of him. He nearly ended up digging up the road with various appendages but just avoided it. Sad, it might have taught him a lesson.

[melmerby]

Absolutely essential in Redditch, where in pre Sat-Nav days I spent ages going round and round the ringway trying to get to the Holiday Inn Express near the station that I could clearly see from the ringway, but could not work out how the hell to get to!

 

Jim

That must be quite a feat as Redditch only has half a Ringway!

 

Compared to Telford I find Redditch a doddle.

I got badly lost once in Telford as the road I was going along (shown as a classified road on a map) had been totally blocked off as part of the redevelopment but the Firm I was going to was plainly visible further along.

When I stopped to ask some locals, they hadn't a clue and directed me to the local Police station which when I arrived I found boarded up and for sale!

Nobody that lived there seemed to have a clue how to get around the place. I eventually, after driving up and down estate roads for hours, found a way out and approached from a different direction.

 

Keith

 

P.S. I don't use sat-nav, relying on them makes you lazy and quite often unable to find an sutable alternative when there is disruption.

This happened when there was an accident on the M6 (isn't there always) and everybody was coming off the Motorway, obviously led by their sat navs and ending up in a crawl up the suggested alternative.

I looked at a map, picked a totally different route to everyone else and drove, pretty well traffic free, to a couple of junctions further on where I rejoined, having lost not a great deal of time.

Edited June 14, 2017 by melmerby

[dvdlcs]

A strange one that I encountered recently.

 

Driving home from work, I came up behind a car that would come to a complete stop several car lengths short of every give way, stop line, or queue of vehicles, before inching their way forward to the 'correct' stopping point.

 

No idea what the driver was doing: it wasn't a new car, although may have been new to them, but even so a couple of brake applications would tell you what the stopping distance is for that vehicle. The only other thing I could think of is that, perhaps worryingly, they didn't trust the brakes(!)

 

Unfortunately in peak traffic, both ways, so there was no opportunity to pass them although perhaps if they weren't sure of the brakes behind may have been better than in front! Eventually our paths diverged.

 

On the satnav debate: never wanted one, never used one, never owned one. When I was young (a long time ago) I was a Boy Scout and we were taught to read maps. A combination of that, plus a reasonable sense of direction, means that certainly in the UK I can look at a map (paper or Google) beforehand and memorise what I need to know.

 

One scenario where I suspect they would be useful is if you were driving in a country where you don't speak/read the local language. You would (hopefully) recognise the signs for your destination and any major waypoints, but perhaps wouldn't understand the "Road closed due to flooding. Divert via A and B" sign next to the barrier across your intended path.

Edited June 14, 2017 by dvdlcs

[raymw]

It doesn't matter what map you have, you'll never find your way back from Nempnett Thrubwell.

[njee20]

Great bit of sat nav self righteousness here. "You're not a man if you can't scan a map for 3 seconds then be able to drive 2,000 miles with nary a wrong lane choice".

 

They make driving less stressful. Simple. They're not mandatory. I love that I can sit on my drive, input the address of a hotel in a foreign city and then drive there. I can read a map very well, but that doesn't help whatsoever with "on the fly" choices, nor are they easy to use on your own in city centres. I like that I get notified of traffic before I hit it and be presented with alternatives.

[jjb1970]

I like satnav systems and use mine quite a lot. Even when I know the route I often use the satnav for the traffic avoidance function. As with many things, few of us need a satnav but they are useful and nice to have. Strictly speaking you don't need air-con, sound systems and stuff like central locking in cars either but I'd not buy a car without such features. I remember when many dismissed things like anti-lock brakes, power assisted steering and stability control as being for people that didn't know how to drive but who would want a car without modern safety and assistance technology? Really, for a day to day as opposed to a track day car these aids are great.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I like satnav systems and use mine quite a lot. Even when I know the route I often use the satnav for the traffic avoidance function. As with many things, few of us need a satnav but they are useful and nice to have. Strictly speaking you don't need air-con, sound systems and stuff like central locking in cars either but I'd not buy a car without such features. I remember when many dismissed things like anti-lock brakes, power assisted steering and stability control as being for people that didn't know how to drive but who would want a car without modern safety and assistance technology? Really, for a day to day as opposed to a track day car these aids are great.

I agree entirely.

 

I learned to drive when modern technology benefits meant we had no PAS, ABS, etc. Sideways around roundabouts on Dagenham's roads in a Twin Cam Escort was great fun but a little irresponsible. As a trainee engineer at the time I also understood how a car functions and am probably more aware then most recently qualified motorists of the problems posed by different driving conditions, vehicle characteristics, etc. However, in todays' motoring environment I wouldn't want to be without those modern benefits in our regular car. I remember when Peugeot introduced A/C to mainstream cars with the 405. Considered by many as a sales gimmick, how many of us would now prefer a car without.

 

I have to adapt a somewhat more cautious approach when driving our 1973 MGB roadster, although we only use it in fine (or at least dry) weather. Without all the "benefits" of the latest technology I have become very aware of the driving style many people adopt, a reflection on their busy, high pressure lives, which leaves little consideration for others.

[Reorte]

I like satnav systems and use mine quite a lot. Even when I know the route I often use the satnav for the traffic avoidance function. As with many things, few of us need a satnav but they are useful and nice to have. Strictly speaking you don't need air-con, sound systems and stuff like central locking in cars either but I'd not buy a car without such features. I remember when many dismissed things like anti-lock brakes, power assisted steering and stability control as being for people that didn't know how to drive but who would want a car without modern safety and assistance technology? Really, for a day to day as opposed to a track day car these aids are great.

Well the aircon in mine hasn't worked for a few years. The satnav traffic avoidance in mine requires taking with a pinch of salt since it only appears to get information on major roads. If the M60 is busy at rush hour it'll try to divert me through the middle of Manchester, which is very unlikely to be an improvement. Like a lot of things satnav-related it can be handy but don't follow it blindly. As for the safety and assistance features you mentioned, indifferent to them, wouldn't enter my consideration if I was buying a new one and there was a choice (although car designed for power steering is a pig to steer if it fails).

[coachmann]

Pavement parking... This little lot confused the local blind man when his dog, confronted by the narrow gap between car and lamp post, took him onto the grass and he temporarily lost his bearing...

 

 

[kevinlms]

Pavement parking... This little lot confused the local blind man when his dog, confronted by the narrow gap between car and lamp post, took him onto the grass and he temporarily lost his bearing...

 

WEB Pavement parking.jpg

I would suggest that the dog wasn't confused at all. Surely that's what the dog is trained to do - avoid obstacles? Did you ring up whoever is responsible for parking tickets there & explain the circumstances?

[coachmann]

I didn't say the dog was confused, afterall it has working eyes.

Edited June 15, 2017 by coachmann

[melmerby]

 Did you ring up whoever is responsible for parking tickets there & explain the circumstances?

Don't bother ringing anybody up if you live in Worcestershire because the local plods have said you can park on the pavement!

They didn't even do anything when I slipped on an icy pavement and cut my arm on a pavement parked vehicle due the compacted snow caused by driving onto the pavement.

Quite what authority they have to completely override the law I don't know.

 

Keith

[TheQ]

I could regularly show you a line of cars parked on the pavement.....

 

Outside the North Norwich police station owned by policemen / women and staff.

[coachmann]

A young police officer came around. She agreed it was causing an obstruction on the pavement, but it is council business to deal with such matters. As councils are not there to see the letter of the law is followed, then parking on pavements is NOT against the law. While we were talking on the lawn, a 4 X 4 drove onto the pavement in front of us. That was fine because the vehicle was not causing an obstruction. It was all news to me and it is probable that many of us were not aware the stance had changed.  A barrack room lawyer also joined us with his straight from A to B "shoot the ######".

 

The police lady phoned me this afternoon to say she would have a gentle word.  (With the lady who parked so thoughtlessly - my words).

Edited June 15, 2017 by coachmann

[Coryton]

A young police officer came around. She agreed it was causing an obstruction on the pavement, but it is council business to deal with such matters. As councils are not there to see the letter of the law is followed, then parking on pavements is NOT against the law. While we were talking on the lawn, a 4 X 4 drove onto the pavement in front of us. That was fine because the vehicle was not causing an obstruction. It was all news to me and it is probable that many of us were not aware the stance had changed.  A barrack room lawyer also joined us with his straight from A to B "shoot the ######".

 

The police lady phoned me this afternoon to say she would have a gentle word.  (With the lady who parked so thoughtlessly - my words).

 

It's interesting how as a society we (rightly) spend considerable amounts of time and money ensuring that public transport is compatible with people in wheelchairs etc., but stopping people from parking on a pavement and forcing anyone in a wheelchair, mobility scooter or just a double pushchair across a kerb and into the road doesn't seem to be thought of as important.

[PhilJ W]

There used to be a lot of pavement parking near to my home, made worse by the worst offenders parking right opposite a T junction. Then it stopped quite suddenly. I heard though the grapevine that someone had 'keyed' the cars parked in that fashion and when one car owner reported it he got a ticket from the council for parking on the pavement.

[melmerby]

There used to be a lot of pavement parking near to my home, made worse by the worst offenders parking right opposite a T junction. Then it stopped quite suddenly. I heard though the grapevine that someone had 'keyed' the cars parked in that fashion and when one car owner reported it he got a ticket from the council for parking on the pavement.

I quite often carry a bag with zips, buckles etc. on it and if someone is parking so far on the pavement that I have to squeeze past I ensure the bag drags along the side of the car.

There is absolutely no comeback as I should not be put in that position by inconsiderate parking in the first place.

I am not walking in the road, only to have the horn sounded at me and be put in danger by equally inconsiderate drivers that wont let you get past.

 

I am a driver, cyclist, bus user and a pedestrian and I think I am more considerate than many on the roads.

 

Keith

Edited June 15, 2017 by melmerby

[Coryton]

There used to be a lot of pavement parking near to my home, made worse by the worst offenders parking right opposite a T junction. Then it stopped quite suddenly. I heard though the grapevine that someone had 'keyed' the cars parked in that fashion and when one car owner reported it he got a ticket from the council for parking on the pavement.

 

I've often wondered what would happen in such circumstances...

 

I think it's only London where pavement parking is specifically illegal and can therefore result in a ticket.

 

More information here which says what I have read elsewhere, namely that outside London the only relevant offence is driving on the pavement, but the fact that a car is on the pavement can't be used as sufficient evidence that at some point it must have driven on it so drivers have to be caught in the act (Maybe it was placed by crane?)

 

(Further reading suggests it's because the police don't know who drove it there, and unlike for other offences, have no power to demand to know.)

 

There is an offence of 'obstruction' but it seems to be very poorly defined and open to the defence that as pedestrians can walk in the road there's no obstruction, and again it seems the police have to actually see someone being obstructed in order to act.

 

It all seems a bit of a mess.

[PaulCheffus]

I quite often carry a bag with zips, buckles etc. on it and if someone is parking so far on the pavement that I have to squeeze past I ensure the bag drags along the side of the car.

There is absolutely no comeback as I should not be put in that position by inconsiderate parking in the first place.

I am not walking in the road, only to have the horn sounded at me and be put in danger by equally inconsiderate drivers that wont let you get past.

 

I am a driver, cyclist, bus user and a pedestrian and I think I am more considerate than many on the roads.

 

Keith

Hi

 

Yet you feel it's ok to damage someone else's property!

 

Whilst I agree they shouldn't park on the pavement that isn't an excuse for you to damage their vehicle.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[davknigh]

Interesting comments. Over here people don't drive anymore, they hurtle. It doesn't matter if the next light is red, they hurtle up to it with total disregard for posted speed limits. Should you be ahead of them at a light hesitating for a nanosecond is justification in their minds for a blast on the horn and a filthy look as they hurtle past only to end up sitting in front of you at the next light. These are the same people who will complain bitterly if the price of petrol goes up, go figure.

 

There is, however, an upside to this insanity; any time we plan a trip anywhere the wife will often suggest that we take the train instead of driving.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[JDW]

I do try to keep my fingers away from the keyboard on this thread, but I'll pop out from behind my computer screen again for parking on pavements... As regular readers will already know, I drive buses.  Now sometimes, parking ON pavements actually helps me, its true. It makes it a bit easier to get past.  And from that point of view, I can see why people do it, to avoid having their mirrors damaged by passing cars, something I often see on narrow busy roads.  Of course, cars (and mirrors) are getting ever more expensive, and also gradually wider.  And I have to say, my parents live at the end of a cul-de-sac, and if I have to park on the street, I park right on the kerb, right into the corner, so that other people can turn easily, which seems sensible as it inconveniences no pedestrians, as there's nowhere for them to walk, the pavement just goes around the end of the street and back again.  

 

But as someone mentioned above, it can be very awkward for people who are blind, or suffer from physical disabilities.  But try explaining this to most drivers, and I can pretty much guarantee that all you'll get is abuse.  In the same way that I often get abuse for trying to get people not to park at bus stops, so I can get in to the kerb to allow the pushchair/wheelchair/elderly/movement-impaired person to alight from the bus.  Far too many people these days seem not to care (or maybe just aren't aware enough to realise) that they are inconveniencing other people just to save themselves a 20 second walk to a safe and legal parking space.

[melmerby]

Hi

 

Yet you feel it's ok to damage someone else's property!

 

Whilst I agree they shouldn't park on the pavement that isn't an excuse for you to damage their vehicle.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

So what do I do?

Wait for the inconsiderate s*d to move the vehicle?

As far as I'm concerned, if I have to squeeze past it is me who is being inconvenienced and in some places it is downright dangerous to walk in the road due to the equally inconsiderate drivers who would rather mow you down than wait for you to walk past.

Would you do walk in the road on a dark night on a blind bend, when the local authority has kindly provided you with a suitable safe alternative which has been taken away from you by a lazy idiot who wont park more than 10 feet from their place they are visiting?

 

I'm sorry, but inconsiderate pavement parkers really need to be sorted out but the authorities wont do anything.

Putting a couple of wheels on the pavement on narrow roads to "widen the carriageway" is one thing but almost, or in some cases totally, blocking the pavement must be dealt with.

Unfortunately it is all part of the rather lackadaisical attitude to many things these days "It's only a minor infringement" is the usual story but as has been shown minor incidents not dealt with just get worse until you have a free for all.

 

Rant over

 

Keith

Edited June 16, 2017 by melmerby

[chris p bacon]

 

Unfortunately it is all part of the rather lackadaisical attitude to many things these days "It's only a minor infringement" is the usual story but as has been shown minor incidents not dealt with just get worse until you have a free for all.

 

And that statement can equally apply to the wilful damage of anothers property. Just because they're selfish in their attitude to parking doesn't mean the answer is to damage the vehicle.