Driving standards

[Horsetan]

Followed a car for about 8 miles on the road to work today.

Wing mirrors folded in.........

 

It has a private registration, so it "stands out" a bit.

I often see it - going the opposite way to my regular commute.

And the number of times it has come around a blind corner at speed and having to take avoiding action from me towards the hedgerow, I'm actually not surprised that they drive with mirrors folded in........

 

That driver only needs to be unlucky once.

[TheQ]

and now for something completely different..

 

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/ruddy-muddy-leaves-formula-1-artwork-on-rental-van-1-5447485

[Horsetan]

and now for something completely different..

 

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/ruddy-muddy-leaves-formula-1-artwork-on-rental-van-1-5447485

I wonder if the hire company washed it all off afterwards?

[tractionman]

One of the more annoying aspects of modern day driving, overbright headlights, not helped by the number of pumped up cars these days so headlights shine not on the road but in my face, but at last this nuisance is itself under the spotlight...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

PS I see now the BBC have opened up the news item to 'have your say' comments, always a battlefield, makes RMWeb posts seem positively sublime...

Edited March 24, 2018 by tractionman

[TheQ]

I wonder if the hire company washed it all off afterwards?

Ruddy Muddy who does that, if requested has a method using a glued cloth to transfer the image including the mud if you or he want to keep it. He now got an exhibition on.

 

http://www.edp24.co.uk/going-out/ruddy-muddy-artist-norfolk-top-ten-pieces-1-5350851

[Quarryscapes]

One of the more annoying aspects of modern day driving, overbright headlights, not helped by the number of pumped up cars these days so headlights shine not on the road but in my face, but at last this nuisance is itself under the spotlight...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

PS I see now the BBC have opened up the news item to 'have your say' comments, always a battlefield, makes RMWeb posts seem positively sublime...

 

Something I've been struggling with for a good few years now, particularly as I drive particularly low cars while the modern trend is for everyone to be driving monster trucks, so their headlights are pointed right at my eye line.

 

I've always thought that standardising the height of headlamps would go a long way to improving the situation. 

 

I must also pick the BBC up on one point, it's not glare that is the problem - glare is an issue the unwanted light going in directions other than where it's meant too in reflector headlights (from using poorly made or plain wrong bulb types for the housings - often an issue with people installing aftermarket HIDs or LEDs or simply incorrect adjustment), the issue with modern cars is the very narrow spread of very high intensity light from projector housings. With halogens in reflectors, the light was relatively even and low powered, so of everything was correct there was no real issue coming towards a set, but coming up against modern stuff from any angle other than the absolutely perfect one where the light is not shining is like being zapped with a laser beam. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

As we get older our need for more light apparently increases (I certainly find I need more workbench lighting than I did). Brighter headlights on my car are therefore a benefit when driving on unlit roads. The LED lights on my car are self leveling and have a wide spread. So am I causing a problem?

 

On the other hand, they are sometimes a problem from on coming or following cars, although that is mainly an issue when they are either badly adjusted or mounted at a high level as on SUVs, Range Rovers and the likes. Add to that people following too closely and driving becomes very uncomfortable.

 

The regulations for HID aftermarket lamps requires that they should be self levelling (or that the vehicle has self levelling suspension), as for new cars. I wonder how often that is met or the lamps are correctly adjusted anyway.

[kevinlms]

Something I've been struggling with for a good few years now, particularly as I drive particularly low cars while the modern trend is for everyone to be driving monster trucks, so their headlights are pointed right at my eye line.

 

I've always thought that standardising the height of headlamps would go a long way to improving the situation. 

 

I must also pick the BBC up on one point, it's not glare that is the problem - glare is an issue the unwanted light going in directions other than where it's meant too in reflector headlights (from using poorly made or plain wrong bulb types for the housings - often an issue with people installing aftermarket HIDs or LEDs or simply incorrect adjustment), the issue with modern cars is the very narrow spread of very high intensity light from projector housings. With halogens in reflectors, the light was relatively even and low powered, so of everything was correct there was no real issue coming towards a set, but coming up against modern stuff from any angle other than the absolutely perfect one where the light is not shining is like being zapped with a laser beam. 

Two thoughts the headlights can hardly be standardised, because a bus or truck is much higher off the ground compared to a sleek sports car.

 

Sometimes the clip to hold the lamp in place can be a real pain to get into the correct spot. On my car for the drivers side, the battery needs to be unbolted and slid back to get your hand and next to impossible to check the alignment unless is dark, then you can't see what you're doing! The last time I replaced one, it was wrongly aligned for a couple of days (OK nights!), until I could have another go. But of course some people don't know or care.

 

One day BOTH headlights blew, what a pain, that was! No idea why.

[Enterprisingwestern]

The regulations for HID aftermarket lamps requires that they should be self levelling (or that the vehicle has self levelling suspension), as for new cars. I wonder how often that is met or the lamps are correctly adjusted anyway.

 

A few older Citroens and very little else.

At least the xenons in my XM were legal!

 

Mike.

[stewartingram]

There ARE Construction & Use Regulations covering position of headlamps. Specifically, though I don't have to hand dimensions, the vertical height, horizontal position, and important in our context, brightness of the lights. These apply to all external lights on the cars. And if you have tochange a bulb, and don't fit the correct type or even get it located right, YOU are in the wrong. But, who checks on you?

Now, the importance of brightness? I haven't seen the regs in a while, so I don't know if things have been re-written.  As an engineer, I understand the technicalities, but are the rules now up to date with technology? It used to be that a bulb specification was stated in power, ie Watts, such as 55W maximum. Technology changes, bulbs were originally vacuum but later changed to gas filled, which made them brighter. The power rating (55W) remained the same. However there are other ways of stating the brilliance, such as Luminence, which would be more relevant today. You do not get 55W leds! Just look at your bulbs in the house - a typical filament lamp was 60W, (comparable in numbers) to a 55W headlamp bulb. (Not the same light though, one is 240v the older is 12v, but just follow me). Today those filament bulbs are no more, you use an LED equivalant, rated at 10W, but similar brightness? So car manufacturer could fit a 55W led instead of a 55W filament bulb - imagine the brightness blindness of that! As I said, the regs may have been re-written, but it could explain why the intense lighting nowadays is still legal? I keep seeing references to backlash against it more often though, so maybe things will change.

 

Stewart

[IWCR]

I  believe  it  is  also  part  of   the  MOT  to  check  headlight  alignment,  the  bright  part  of  the  beam  should  not  shine  through  a  car  rear  window  (nominal  height  used)  at  a  given  distance  (25yds?)  regardless  of  vehicle  type  &  height.

Yes  many  vehicles  have  excessively  bright  lights  which  I  am  sure are  illegal,  as  you  say  little  or  no  control,  in  fact  police  cars  are  often  a  major  culprit.

 

Pete

[Norm81]

I  believe  it  is  also  part  of   the  MOT  to  check  headlight  alignment,  the  bright  part  of  the  beam  should  not  shine  through  a  car  rear  window  (nominal  height  used)  at  a  given  distance  (25yds?)  regardless  of  vehicle  type  &  height.

Yes  many  vehicles  have  excessively  bright  lights  which  I  am  sure are  illegal,  as  you  say  little  or  no  control,  in  fact  police  cars  are  often  a  major  culprit.

 

Pete

That explains it as many cars, the Nissan Juke being a regular offender that has high up lights, often drive far closer behind than 25yds. So from behind it's the tailgating driver not the lights at fault, I've had my headlining just above the windscreen lit up before, think it was a Range Rover that time.

 

Coming the other way, I find the blue-white headlights affect my night vision a lot more than the softer more yellowy ones.

[Quarryscapes]

I  believe  it  is  also  part  of   the  MOT  to  check  headlight  alignment,  the  bright  part  of  the  beam  should  not  shine  through  a  car  rear  window  (nominal  height  used)  at  a  given  distance  (25yds?)  regardless  of  vehicle  type  &  height.

Yes  many  vehicles  have  excessively  bright  lights  which  I  am  sure are  illegal,  as  you  say  little  or  no  control,  in  fact  police  cars  are  often  a  major  culprit.

 

Pete

 

That is not how it works - at an mot headlight aim is checked as pattern of light (I.e. the beam being the correct shape) and that on dip the light is cast downwards a certain amount when the car is on level ground and pointed at a target a set distance away and is all relative to the height of the headlight hence why standardising such height makes sense (obviously for new builds on of course). Then we'd all have exactly the same beam pattern regardless of what technology created the light. 

 

There ARE Construction & Use Regulations covering position of headlamps. Specifically, though I don't have to hand dimensions, the vertical height, horizontal position, and important in our context, brightness of the lights. These apply to all external lights on the cars. And if you have tochange a bulb, and don't fit the correct type or even get it located right, YOU are in the wrong. But, who checks on you?

Now, the importance of brightness? I haven't seen the regs in a while, so I don't know if things have been re-written.  As an engineer, I understand the technicalities, but are the rules now up to date with technology? It used to be that a bulb specification was stated in power, ie Watts, such as 55W maximum. Technology changes, bulbs were originally vacuum but later changed to gas filled, which made them brighter. The power rating (55W) remained the same. However there are other ways of stating the brilliance, such as Luminence, which would be more relevant today. You do not get 55W leds! Just look at your bulbs in the house - a typical filament lamp was 60W, (comparable in numbers) to a 55W headlamp bulb. (Not the same light though, one is 240v the older is 12v, but just follow me). Today those filament bulbs are no more, you use an LED equivalant, rated at 10W, but similar brightness? So car manufacturer could fit a 55W led instead of a 55W filament bulb - imagine the brightness blindness of that! As I said, the regs may have been re-written, but it could explain why the intense lighting nowadays is still legal? I keep seeing references to backlash against it more often though, so maybe things will change.

 

Stewart

 

Generally, these things are checked during an MOT test, but there's a lot that is not required to be tested and/or can be temporarily replaced for the test. 

 

As we get older our need for more light apparently increases (I certainly find I need more workbench lighting than I did). Brighter headlights on my car are therefore a benefit when driving on unlit roads. The LED lights on my car are self leveling and have a wide spread. So am I causing a problem?

 

On the other hand, they are sometimes a problem from on coming or following cars, although that is mainly an issue when they are either badly adjusted or mounted at a high level as on SUVs, Range Rovers and the likes. Add to that people following too closely and driving becomes very uncomfortable.

 

The regulations for HID aftermarket lamps requires that they should be self levelling (or that the vehicle has self levelling suspension), as for new cars. I wonder how often that is met or the lamps are correctly adjusted anyway.

 

Yes possibly you are a problem, or rather your car is - LEDs are akin to HIDs in that they have a very bright focused beam which is exactly what makes coming up against them so problematic. 

 

These are the regulations on aftermarket HIDs: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408941/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf a HID lamp is not an LED by the way, a HID lamp is one where the gas in the bulb is zapped by an arc, rather than a glowing filament. 

 

 

Two thoughts the headlights can hardly be standardised, because a bus or truck is much higher off the ground compared to a sleek sports car.

 

Sometimes the clip to hold the lamp in place can be a real pain to get into the correct spot. On my car for the drivers side, the battery needs to be unbolted and slid back to get your hand and next to impossible to check the alignment unless is dark, then you can't see what you're doing! The last time I replaced one, it was wrongly aligned for a couple of days (OK nights!), until I could have another go. But of course some people don't know or care.

 

One day BOTH headlights blew, what a pain, that was! No idea why.

 

Why not? You pick the lowest available headlamp position and say that's the height all headlights will now be and there you go, car & truck manufacturers design cars to meet the requirements. Whether that leads to the next MX5 looking like a very low slung Juke or not, who can say...

 

I'm not sure what type of bulbs you're referring to, but one I've ever encountered depend on any kind of clip for alignment within a lamp, retention yes, alignment no. Worth pointing out too that reflector lamps rely on the bulb being very precisely aligned, as the reflector and lens are designed to work with a certain position of light source, which is why you can't just replace the bulb with a HID or LED version because the light will be nothing like where it is meant to be. Not that that is what is the mainstay of the problem, modified lights only make up a small proportion of blinding lights out there. 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

 

Why not? You pick the lowest available headlamp position and say that's the height all headlights will now be and there you go, car & truck manufacturers design cars to meet the requirements. Whether that leads to the next MX5 looking like a very low slung Juke or not, who can say...

 

 

Ah, but in the real world, vehicle design is also influenced by "collision" regulations, aerodynamic constraints to meet fuel economy and emission requirements, as well as the buyers' needs for a stylish "look at what I am driving" design.

 

There is a minimum and maximum headlamp height defined  by the C&U regs.;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/4/made

 

or for those with a week or two to spare;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/made

 

The first states the max is 1200mm, nearly 4ft, so probably quite nicely aligned with the eye level of a saloon or sports car. I gave up with the second link.

[newbryford]

 

Yes  many  vehicles  have  excessively  bright  lights  which  I  am  sure are  illegal,  as  you  say  little  or  no  control,  in  fact  police  cars  are  often  a  major  culprit.

 

Pete

 

I often find the blue ones are quite bright in my mirrors............

 

Hat, coat, etc.

[PhilJ W]

I thought that blue lights were illegal except on emergency vehicles.

[Baby Deltic]

I thought that blue lights were illegal except on emergency vehicles.

Flashing blue lights are. There is no law against non flashing blue lights on a vehicle AFAIK.

[Baby Deltic]

That explains it as many cars, the Nissan Juke being a regular offender that has high up lights, often drive far closer behind than 25yds. So from behind it's the tailgating driver not the lights at fault, I've had my headlining just above the windscreen lit up before, think it was a Range Rover that time.

Coming the other way, I find the blue-white headlights affect my night vision a lot more than the softer more yellowy ones.

The Nissan Puke is an offender full stop. Awful looking hideous contraption.

[TheQ]

Talking of construction  and use...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/police-stop-car-no-brakes-a47-1-5449537

[Titan]

Talking of construction and use...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/police-stop-car-no-brakes-a47-1-5449537

What "car" has dual wheels?

[PhilJ W]

Talking of construction  and use...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/police-stop-car-no-brakes-a47-1-5449537

 

 

What "car" has dual wheels?

It was a Transit van.

[stewartingram]

Flashing blue lights are. There is no law against non flashing blue lights on a vehicle AFAIK.

Only white lights can be on the front of any vehicle. (Technically, on the outside - so that covers things like bus destination indicators etc). Doesn't matter if they are steady or flashing. Those 'clever people' that put coloured lights in sidelights or on their grilles ARE breaking the law.

 

Stewart

[MJI]

I find the worst offenders for dazzle are LED daytime running lamps, can be worse than main beam.

[admiles]

Only white lights can be on the front of any vehicle. (Technically, on the outside - so that covers things like bus destination indicators etc). Doesn't matter if they are steady or flashing. Those 'clever people' that put coloured lights in sidelights or on their grilles ARE breaking the law.

 

Stewart

 

Orange also allowable on the front I believe.

[kevinlms]

That is not how it works - at an mot headlight aim is checked as pattern of light (I.e. the beam being the correct shape) and that on dip the light is cast downwards a certain amount when the car is on level ground and pointed at a target a set distance away and is all relative to the height of the headlight hence why standardising such height makes sense (obviously for new builds on of course). Then we'd all have exactly the same beam pattern regardless of what technology created the light. 

 

 

Generally, these things are checked during an MOT test, but there's a lot that is not required to be tested and/or can be temporarily replaced for the test. 

 

 

Yes possibly you are a problem, or rather your car is - LEDs are akin to HIDs in that they have a very bright focused beam which is exactly what makes coming up against them so problematic. 

 

These are the regulations on aftermarket HIDs: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408941/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf a HID lamp is not an LED by the way, a HID lamp is one where the gas in the bulb is zapped by an arc, rather than a glowing filament. 

 

 

 

Why not? You pick the lowest available headlamp position and say that's the height all headlights will now be and there you go, car & truck manufacturers design cars to meet the requirements. Whether that leads to the next MX5 looking like a very low slung Juke or not, who can say...

 

I'm not sure what type of bulbs you're referring to, but one I've ever encountered depend on any kind of clip for alignment within a lamp, retention yes, alignment no. Worth pointing out too that reflector lamps rely on the bulb being very precisely aligned, as the reflector and lens are designed to work with a certain position of light source, which is why you can't just replace the bulb with a HID or LED version because the light will be nothing like where it is meant to be. Not that that is what is the mainstay of the problem, modified lights only make up a small proportion of blinding lights out there. 

 

It was a misalignment in the holder. I thought I'd put the replacement QH lamp in correctly, but it was twisted slightly. I didn't think it was possible, but no doubt.