Driving standards

[62613]

Just what is it about joining dual carriageways off a roundabout these days?

 

For the last week I've had Cockwombles joining into the fast lane no matter what direction they'd joined the roundabout from, with no one in the slow lane. They drive a hundred yards or so in the fast lane, then indicate and move into the slow lane...

Had one of those a couple of weeks ago, taking SWMBO for her pre-op at The Alexandra in Cheadle. Leaving the M60 at the A34 junction, doing about 55-60 in the A34 filter, when a car, might have been of a certain German manufacture, drove across my front from the outside lane of the M60, and exited up the sliproad.

[duncan]

I think one reason drivers are more reluctant to let buses out, is that they know the bus will stop a couple of 100 yds ahead (or less, so passengers don't need to walk to a stop) blocking the road.  Bad enough where cars are legitimately parked, but where a traffic island has been deliberately built at a bus stop or the pavement built out where 2 stops are opposite each other is irritating.  We see the motorway signs constantly telling us not to frustrate other drivers & the planners do it the whole time  

[SM42]

The bus has to stop to pick up and set down, and the driver is also expected to maintain schedule: so the drivers do their best in the prevailing circumstances. This is not a case of bad behaviour on the part of the bus driver, just getting the job done.

 

What many road users forget is that the highway code privileges bus, coach, tram over other road users:

 

Rule 223. Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops.

 

I would like to see this message in bold on the rear of all buses, as was once quite common.

 

Granted but many bus drivers forget the Highway Code also says (or at least used to say in my copy)  "Do not force others to brake or swerve to avoid you".

 

Some of our PSV drivers should remember that putting the right indicator on is not a guarantee the car just off your back bumper is going give way.

 

The frustrations of city driving, 

 

I also fail to be amused by those who potter along and are suddenly surprised that there is a  stationary bus blocking the lane 30ft ahead of them and then the indicator comes on. Meanwhile the rest of us have seen the bus, are expecting it to stop (buses do that sort of thing) noted the left indicator and pulled into the outside lane in plenty of time to proceed unimpeded. 

 

These are, I suspect, the same drivers who when proceeding along a two lane (2 each way) road in the left lane whilst the right hand one is empty, bury the brake pedal when they see blue flashing lights, rather than carry on serenely and monitor the situation whilst the emergency services use the empty lane. The worst are those who do it when they are travelling in the opposite direction to the ambulance etc

 

Andy

Edited December 13, 2018 by SM42

[Enterprisingwestern]

can you tell me where the fast and slow lanes are please do you mean lanes 1 &2 ?

 

 

Surely it's fast and relief lanes...

 

On a 4 lane motorway it is;

Lane 1. HGV/undertaking 1.

Lane 2. HGV elephant racing/undertaking 2.

Lane 3. HGV really taking the p!ss/undertaking 3.

Lane 4. German cockwombles.

 

Mike.

[TheQ]

can you tell me where the fast and slow lanes are please do you mean lanes 1 &2 ?

I live in Norfolk, the slow lane is the one with a tractor in it, the fast one is the one with something big black and from Germany in it, Oh and sugar beet artics

Edited December 13, 2018 by TheQ

[Hobby]

when a car, might have been of a certain German manufacture, drove across my front from the outside lane of the M60, and exited up the sliproad.

 

Don't blame the car, it's only doing what it was built to do when driving on German autobahns!

 

(That sort of manoeuvre is common place over there)

[PhilJ W]

Don't blame the car, it's only doing what it was built to do when driving on German autobahns!

 

(That sort of manoeuvre is common place over there)

But the same type of nut behind the steering wheel.

[Hobby]

It's strange, though, that it seems like its acceptable behaviour over there, I've lost count of the number of times someone's done it too me but no-one bats an eyelid!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Granted but many bus drivers forget the Highway Code also says (or at least used to say in my copy)  "Do not force others to brake or swerve to avoid you".

 

Some of our PSV drivers should remember that putting the right indicator on is not a guarantee the car just off your back bumper is going give way.

Context is all. The bus driver having assessed that you have safe stopping distance available, is entitled to pull out (not saying by this that he or she gets it right every time). Since you have read the code you know it is always your responsibility to allow the bus to pull out when it is safe to do so, and so are fully prepared, no?

 

But I am sure Mercedes will in time develop Signal abhangige Autobus und Strassenbahn konditional Bremse anlegung 'SAASKBA' system to cover this one off. (In English language territories sold as 'BUSSTOP' system.) (Apologies for my mangling of the German, long out of practice now.)

[Hujie]

Please let busses pull out .............. and help reduce the population of mini buses!!!!! 

[Baby Deltic]

Agreed, but they don't do themselves any favours by leaving their back end out and blocking the road... Give and take...

I sometimes leave my back end out blocking the toilet....

[IWCR]

Buses

In heavy traffic I slow/stop to let the bus out.

In quiet periods when nothing is behind me the bus can wait 10 seconds.

I have no desire to sit behind a slow bus on an empty road.

 

Pete

[PhilJ W]

I sometimes leave my back end out blocking the toilet....

TMI!

[Guest]

Got to see a car back out of a parking space on Hungerford high street right in front of a tipper wagon who got to try out his brakes, and his horn, and his lights. So he was really happy.

So happy in fact that he tried out his horn a few more times going down the road.

Edited December 13, 2018 by 30801

[Trevellan]

The question of buses and their drivers tends to be rather divisive, so let me explain what I was taught by a London Transport instructor. The distinction is between "pulling out" and "moving off".

 

If a bus stop is located in a layby, the bus will have left the flow of traffic and will need to observe the usual rules and etiquette in rejoining the traffic flow, i.e. pulling out. In other words, wait for a gap or a kind soul who knows the Highway Code and gives way.

 

If the bus stop is located within a lane, the bus has not left the flow of traffic when it stops. Therefore, when the bus is ready to move off the driver should indicate to signal his/her intention and check the mirrors to assess the situation. My instructor's take on this was simple. If more than three vehicles ignore the indicator and attempt to pass, they're taking the p*** and the bus driver should begin to move off. I have known traffic officers who have agreed with this take, mainly because a stationary bus represents a potential hazard.

 

I still drive buses on a part-time basis and find that motorists are increasingly reluctant to give way and will do almost anything to avoid doing so. Despite the pro-motoring stance of many politicians, the day is likely to come when buses will have statutory priorities on a far bigger scale than they currently do.

[SM42]

I have no problem with letting a bus pull out, It just seems to be increasingly common practice now to ignore what might be passing as they pull out of the layby. Be prepared yes, but at some point the decision becomes keep going cos it ain't moving. If it is within my stopping distance it will have to wait. It seems though some drivers think I can stop in 2 yards from 20mph. (Highway Code says 40ft is the stopping distance at 20mph)

 

Of course my stopping distance can be reduced to on a sixpence by the bus driver putting their hand out of the window as well as indicating. 

 

On the other side of the coin I was impressed with the bus driver last night who pulled from lane three into the bus layby and continued along it to get the whole bus in. (lanes 1&2 were closed till just before the bus stop) 

 

Anyway, Birmingham was fun today. Me and the car went a paddling.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-46551835

 

I'm glad the frost we were promised didn't materialise otherwise it would have been Tokyo Drift on Five Ways roundabout.

 

Andy

[johnofwessex]

Why dont Police Helicopters have a door gunner?

[newbryford]

Context is all. The bus driver having assessed that you have safe stopping distance available, is entitled to pull out (not saying by this that he or she gets it right every time). Since you have read the code you know it is always your responsibility to allow the bus to pull out when it is safe to do so, and so are fully prepared, no?

 

 

 

 

 

Highway Code buses pulling out

Rule 223. Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops

 

 

This does not entitle the bus driver to pull out. 

 

And what exactly is meant by "safe stopping distance"? Any vehicle pulling out should never force another vehicle to stop.

[MarkC]

There's an easy way to solve the issue of drivers failing to follow the Highway Code by not allowing buses to pull out. CCTV. You don't have to have it fitted to every vehicle either - if it's known that many buses are so fitted, who is going to take the chance that the one they're about to pass doesn't have a camera? I suspect that existing laws could be used to cover this too - driving without due care springs to mind?

[TheQ]

Context is all. The bus driver having assessed that you have safe stopping distance available, is entitled to pull out (not saying by this that he or she gets it right every time). Since you have read the code you know it is always your responsibility to allow the bus to pull out when it is safe to do so, and so are fully prepared, no?

 

 

Causing a vehicle to brake or swerve to avoid you as you join a highway is an offence even if you are a bus..

172

The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1),16(1) & 25

 

Note, a layby for a bus is a junction onto the main road..

 

Allowing a bus to move out is only "advice" NOT a MUST.

[Enterprisingwestern]

I was taught, back in the day admittedly just after the man with the red flag was dispensed with, that you should not carry out a manouevre if it causes a vehicle to change speed or direction, a caveat I've always tried to work to. The problem nowadays is that there is so much traffic on the roads that for much of the time this rule can't be applied or you'd never get anywhere, and that's without taking into account the large number of motorists who's driving awareness ends inside their windscreen. Safe and sensible driving is reliant on other road users being as aware and thoughtful as you are, regrettably in short measure currently.

 

Mike.

[Guest]

I was taught, back in the day admittedly just after the man with the red flag was dispensed with, that you should not carry out a manouevre if it causes a vehicle to change speed or direction, a caveat I've always tried to work to. The problem nowadays is that there is so much traffic on the roads that for much of the time this rule can't be applied or you'd never get anywhere, and that's without taking into account the large number of motorists who's driving awareness ends inside their windscreen. Safe and sensible driving is reliant on other road users being as aware and thoughtful as you are, regrettably in short measure currently.

 

Ah, so you've driven into Benidorm recently. I tried that back in August and I'm still trying to find somewhere to park now.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Ah, so you've driven into Benidorm recently. I tried that back in August and I'm still trying to find somewhere to park now.

 

You'll be alright now Pete, all the grockles have gone home, there's plenty of parking to go at!

Don't get me started on the (lack of) Spanish driving standards, although on the positive side a scooterist got wiped out on the Avenida Europa last week, one less sticker for my door!

 

Mike.

[peanuts]

I was taught, back in the day admittedly just after the man with the red flag was dispensed with, that you should not carry out a manouevre if it causes a vehicle to change speed or direction, a caveat I've always tried to work to. The problem nowadays is that there is so much traffic on the roads that for much of the time this rule can't be applied or you'd never get anywhere, and that's without taking into account the large number of motorists who's driving awareness ends inside their windscreen. Safe and sensible driving is reliant on other road users being as aware and thoughtful as you are, regrettably in short measure currently.

 

Mike.

have to agree on the total inability of the vast majority of motorists in this country to see and plan for anything that is going on beyond  the tail lights of the vehicle infront on any form of road and dont get me started on the uncontrolled panic that occurs should any vehicle on blue lights approach from any direction  

[kevinlms]

have to agree on the total inability of the vast majority of motorists in this country to see and plan for anything that is going on beyond the tail lights of the vehicle infront on any form of road and dont get me started on the uncontrolled panic that occurs should any vehicle on blue lights approach from any direction

Perhaps they have good reason to panic at blue lights! The increasing numbers taking strange substances, must be a worry.

have to agree on the total inability of the vast majority of motorists in this country to see and plan for anything that is going on beyond the tail lights of the vehicle infront on any form of road and dont get me started on the uncontrolled panic that occurs should any vehicle on blue lights approach from any direction

Perhaps they have good reason to panic at blue lights! The increasing numbers taking strange substances, must be a worry.