Driving standards

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

 

Ermmm... I was meaning, that I don’t recall that making the world a better place to live in, was any part of the intention. I’m CERTAIN that eliminating people (and, incidentally, improving utilisation by doing so, because driverless trucks in convoy won’t be subject to tacho restrictions) is fully intended. 

 

What's the point in these developments and the pretty significant changes to society if they don't help make the world a better place to live in? Either they do, in which case great, they don't, in which case why bother at all, or they're negative, in which case madness.

[peanuts]

5 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

What's the point in these developments and the pretty significant changes to society if they don't help make the world a better place to live in? Either they do, in which case great, they don't, in which case why bother at all, or they're negative, in which case madness.

the point is about cost the less it costs to move goods about the more profit the retailer of the goods can make hence bigger and bigger trucks .now three bigger trucks controlled by one man or even fully automated saves money on three sets of wages training etc if it can be dressed up as saving the environment and unclogging the road all the better but none of this would be happening without the profit motive 

[kevinlms]

32 minutes ago, peanuts said:

the point is about cost the less it costs to move goods about the more profit the retailer of the goods can make hence bigger and bigger trucks .now three bigger trucks controlled by one man or even fully automated saves money on three sets of wages training etc if it can be dressed up as saving the environment and unclogging the road all the better but none of this would be happening without the profit motive 

But if it means less people employed and so they have to be supported by the general community, on an unemployment system, how does it prove beneficial?

 

Employers are increasingly forgetting that their employees, are also their customers. 

 

Many of the world's biggest corporations, effectively pay no taxes in their biggest markets, so who pays the unemployment costs?

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, kevinlms said:

But if it means less people employed and so they have to be supported by the general community, on an unemployment system, how does it prove beneficial?

 

Employers are increasingly forgetting that their employees, are also their customers. 

 

Many of the world's biggest corporations, effectively pay no taxes in their biggest markets, so who pays the unemployment costs?

 

You’re missing an important point.

 

The answer to the apparent paradox is “someone else”, the basic assumption that the population is so large that there is ALWAYS “someone else” to pay the costs and provide a profit.

 

[APOLLO]

Worlds gone mad ---  It's bad enough trying to join the M6 at the slip road to the south of Wigan (or many other junctions for that matter) at any time - how the hell do you join the motorway as several closely platooned artics is passing by whilst trying to maintain speed on a limited length slip road - Dicing with death just to line the pockets of  the already rich 0.001 % of "society" ?

 

Just wait till the first fatalities re the above and the stink caused. Trouble is already brewing re deaths and the doubtful safety of smart motorways (conversion of hard shoulder to running lanes). yes there are fancy over head lights - but many seemingly just ignore them.

 

Brit15

[Reorte]

5 hours ago, peanuts said:

the point is about cost the less it costs to move goods about the more profit the retailer of the goods can make hence bigger and bigger trucks .now three bigger trucks controlled by one man or even fully automated saves money on three sets of wages training etc if it can be dressed up as saving the environment and unclogging the road all the better but none of this would be happening without the profit motive 

 

That's what drives it all (the profit bit anyway) certainly but I'm not at all persuaded that that's an overall gain and not a loss for society. It's also set against a backdrop where the same forces have resulted in ever-increasing levels of traffic on the roads in the first place (I'm guessing more than can be put down simply to population growth). It's a bit like some of the issues with calling for faster travel - it never seems to result in spending less time travelling, just doing more of it.

[APOLLO]

The powers that be (politically and monetarily) care not one jot for society (you and me) these days - it's all snouts to the trough as we all saw yesterday very well (whatever Brexit side you are on). We tax payers are just peons.

 

Same over in China, USA, you name it. Bit off topic but watch this to see the future technology / societal wise. Yes it's China - Not nice. Watch the jay walking bit - SCARY !!

 

 

Ah well as orange told us - The future's bright !!!!

 

Brit15

[Reorte]

I'm not sure I dare watch that, I'll probably spend the rest of the day depressed if I do.

[PatB]

8 hours ago, kevinlms said:

But if it means less people employed and so they have to be supported by the general community, on an unemployment system, how does it prove beneficial?

 

Employers are increasingly forgetting that their employees, are also their customers. 

 

Many of the world's biggest corporations, effectively pay no taxes in their biggest markets, so who pays the unemployment costs?

 

Famously, even Henry Ford, thoroughgoing b#$!@%d that he was, recognised this and so ensured that his workers were paid sufficiently well to buy the cars that they built.

[rockershovel]

15 hours ago, PatB said:

 

Famously, even Henry Ford, thoroughgoing b#$!@%d that he was, recognised this and so ensured that his workers were paid sufficiently well to buy the cars that they built.

 

The Ford Model T is also an early example of the principle referred to in dot com terms as the “killer app”, something so useful, and so priced that everyone will buy one. Mass production wasn’t new, but mass production of complex mechanisms for commercial sale of single units by the producer, rather than runs of production to state buyers or major distributors was a wholly new concept. 

 

[johnlambert]

Some local road works have provided a fine opportunity to show where people's observation skills are lacking.  One lane of the road that runs past the hospital where I work has been closed and a temporary one-way system implemented.  There are signs at the entry to the road to say, "No access to hospital, follow diversion" or words to that effect.  If you get to the road closure there is ample space to turn around but that hasn't stopped people from trying to go the wrong way.  Yesterday one driver stopped, looked at the cones, signs and road works, then decided to go the wrong way anyway and the car behind decided to follow.  Today someone tried to go the wrong way but the weight of traffic coming towards them forced a re-think.  Judging by the sound of horns beeping there have been a few other people trying to ignore all the road signs and directions.

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, johnlambert said:

Some local road works have provided a fine opportunity to show where people's observation skills are lacking.  One lane of the road that runs past the hospital where I work has been closed and a temporary one-way system implemented.  There are signs at the entry to the road to say, "No access to hospital, follow diversion" or words to that effect.  If you get to the road closure there is ample space to turn around but that hasn't stopped people from trying to go the wrong way.  Yesterday one driver stopped, looked at the cones, signs and road works, then decided to go the wrong way anyway and the car behind decided to follow.  Today someone tried to go the wrong way but the weight of traffic coming towards them forced a re-think.  Judging by the sound of horns beeping there have been a few other people trying to ignore all the road signs and directions.

 

There's some roadworks on a fairly busy road near here, which as resulted in one lane being blocked, but no traffic management. Twice now I've seen the car on the non-blocked side have to force their way through as no-one on the blocked side was willing to give way...

[Jonboy]

Interesting new one to me tonight, someone parked in a lay-by on the a34 as far too the left as possible in front of an hgv (so invisible to approaching traffic) decided to pull straight out onto the carriageway without looking immediately in front of me....impressed with the braking distance of my car from 70 to 20 and that of the car behind.

[rockershovel]

On 12/09/2019 at 13:46, johnlambert said:

Some local road works have provided a fine opportunity to show where people's observation skills are lacking.  One lane of the road that runs past the hospital where I work has been closed and a temporary one-way system implemented.  There are signs at the entry to the road to say, "No access to hospital, follow diversion" or words to that effect.  If you get to the road closure there is ample space to turn around but that hasn't stopped people from trying to go the wrong way.  Yesterday one driver stopped, looked at the cones, signs and road works, then decided to go the wrong way anyway and the car behind decided to follow.  Today someone tried to go the wrong way but the weight of traffic coming towards them forced a re-think.  Judging by the sound of horns beeping there have been a few other people trying to ignore all the road signs and directions.

 

“Follow diversion”, there’s a good’un. 

 

At least now, the A1/A14/M1 works are apparently past their peak, and the attendant conflicting diversions have abated. The regular M5 closures I encountered last winter, travelling down to Plymouth, could be arbitrary and at times, appeared to simply peter out at some indeterminate point. 

 

I rather think that an increasing number of motorists have simply lost patience with the frequency and ubiquity of obstructions of all descriptions, not helped by the fact that so many of them show little sign of actual activity, much of the time. 

 

You might think that it would be within the wit of man to issue satnav directions for diversions, since so many cars have Bluetooth or some such function? Perhaps the motorist might check plug their phone in, check their route and download anything useful? 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by rockershovel

[Nick C]

That and the fact that the various departments don't talk to each other, so you end up with conflicting roadworks - the one I mentioned a few posts ago was on a road that's quite a bit busier than usual, because people are using it to avoid another main road which has long-running roadworks on...

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

 

“Follow diversion”, there’s a good’un. 

 

At least now, the A1/A14/M1 works are apparently past their peak, and the attendant conflicting diversions have abated. The regular M5 closures I encountered last winter, travelling down to Plymouth, could be arbitrary and at times, appeared to simply peter out at some indeterminate point. 

 

I rather think that an increasing number of motorists have simply lost patience with the frequency and ubiquity of obstructions of all descriptions, not helped by the fact that so many of them show little sign of actual activity, much of the time. 

 

You might think that it would be within the wit of man to issue satnav directions for diversions, since so many cars have Bluetooth or some such function? Perhaps the motorist might check plug their phone in, check their route and download anything useful? 

 

 

 

Google maps is very good at avoiding traffic snarls, such as those caused by accidents. Just today,  it came up with 'we've found an alternative route that will save you 4 minutes '.

[rockershovel]

4 hours ago, Nick C said:

That and the fact that the various departments don't talk to each other, so you end up with conflicting roadworks - the one I mentioned a few posts ago was on a road that's quite a bit busier than usual, because people are using it to avoid another main road which has long-running roadworks on...

 

The A1/A14/M1 works were a particularly bad example of this, since they effectively act as alternatives to each other and once you are E of the A1 there are no viable alternatives - the Sunday night closures of the N bound A1, N of Buckden, didn’t even attempt to provide a diversion but simply sent you back the way you had come... the A47 works around Norwich were another example. 

 

I’ve had mixed results with Google Maps, which (so I understand) basically works from reports submitted by motorists. The satnav in my car (Amundsen) works the same way. Both seem to suffer from the problem that obstructions on relatively lightly used routes can go unreported, and information tends to be somewhat in arrears, although once congestion becomes established, it’s accurate enough. The problem with THIS can be, that the process of uncontrolled diversion of cars onto secondary routes creates further congestion and accidents by overloading specific secondary routes.

 

I became becalmed in Bishop Auckland one Friday evening for this reason - it looked to Google like an attractive diversion around the Scotch Corner/A66 slip road closure, but there is a single-lane bridge with sharp approach bend, controlled by traffic lights in Bishop Auckland. This in turn has a weight limit, and eventually the miles-long queues became gridlocked by a particularly ill-advised wagon which arrived at the bridge and was unable to either proceed, turn or reverse. How it was unscrambled, I never knew; I had parked by then, had some chips, given up and aborted the trip altogether....

 

I also found that in the case of the A14/M1 works, or the chronic tangles around the M5/M6/M42 last year and earlier this year, the lack of obvious alternatives combined the general spreading congestion would confuse the algorithms by presenting no clear “best choice” or produce increasingly protracted diversions as the chaos spread. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by rockershovel

[kevinlms]

24 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

I’ve had mixed results with Google Maps, which (so I understand) basically works from reports submitted by motorists.

 

Google Maps works by drivers having the app turned on. It reports drivers progress (or lack thereof), back to base in real time. So the reports aren't submitted by motorists directly, but by calculating everyone's travel times and the logarithms work out the best route for YOU.

[rockershovel]

47 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Google Maps works by drivers having the app turned on. It reports drivers progress (or lack thereof), back to base in real time. So the reports aren't submitted by motorists directly, but by calculating everyone's travel times and the logarithms work out the best route for YOU.

 

.... which I suppose, is the same way Tomtom, Amundsen or Garmin work - by comparing real time progress vs calculated route. You’re certainly making a strong case for not providing Google with that information! 

 

I mostly use Google Maps for locating supplier premises. If they have a website, that’s the easiest way to find them, particularly if they are in isolated locations. 

[jonny777]

After driving almost 1000 miles last week, much of it on single carriageway roads, I have to comment on the weirdness of camper van drivers. I believe they must think "I'm driving a camper van - that is almost an HGV". 

 

Unfortunately, most HGV drivers will go as fast as their speed limiters will let them because time is money, and who knows where the next hold-up is? Apart from tractors (very common at this time of year) the main cause of a tailback of traffic seems to be camper vans doing 40mph for mile after mile after mile......

 

What is even more mysterious, is if the road then has a short section of dual carriageway camper vans speed up to 65mph, only to slow down to 40mph for mile after mile after mile after mile once the dual carriageway ends. 

 

Signed, 'Frustrated On The A10, A17, A16, A52, A47

Edited September 17, 2019 by jonny777

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

 

I became becalmed in Bishop Auckland one Friday evening for this reason - it looked to Google like an attractive diversion around the Scotch Corner/A66 slip road closure, but there is a single-lane bridge with sharp approach bend, controlled by traffic lights in Bishop Auckland. This in turn has a weight limit, and eventually the miles-long queues became gridlocked by a particularly ill-advised wagon which arrived at the bridge and was unable to either proceed, turn or reverse. How it was unscrambled, I never knew; I had parked by then, had some chips, given up and aborted the trip altogether....

 

 

 

I think you mean the Barnard Castle bridge? I have been diverted off the A1(M) at Scotch Corner whilst heading north, (the whole motorway was closed from Scotch Corner to the A68 junction at Darlington for repairs) and sent onto the A66 towards Bowes. However, we were then turned off the A66 by a properly signed diversion which took us up to the A689 and onto Bishop Auckland via a road to the east of Barnard Castle, thus avoiding the 'orrible bridge and approaches that I think you mean.

[rockershovel]

18 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I think you mean the Barnard Castle bridge? I have been diverted off the A1(M) at Scotch Corner whilst heading north, (the whole motorway was closed from Scotch Corner to the A68 junction at Darlington for repairs) and sent onto the A66 towards Bowes. However, we were then turned off the A66 by a properly signed diversion which took us up to the A689 and onto Bishop Auckland via a road to the east of Barnard Castle, thus avoiding the 'orrible bridge and approaches that I think you mean.

 

That would be the kiddie, right enough. 

[johnofwessex]

3 hours ago, jonny777 said:

After driving almost 1000 miles last week, much of it on single carriageway roads, I have to comment on the weirdness of camper van drivers. I believe they must think "I'm driving a camper van - that is almost an HGV". 

 

Unfortunately, most HGV drivers will go as fast as their speed limiters will let them because time is money, and who knows where the next hold-up is? Apart from tractors (very common at this time of year) the main cause of a tailback of traffic seems to be camper vans doing 40mph for mile after mile after mile......

 

What is even more mysterious, is if the road then has a short section of dual carriageway camper vans speed up to 65mph, only to slow down to 40mph for mile after mile after mile after mile once the dual carriageway ends. 

 

Signed, 'Frustrated On The A10, A17, A16, A52, A47

 

They also seem to think that they do not have to check that the road is clear before pulling out....................

[PatB]

No t being terribly familiar with GPS I'm mildly amused by there being a brand called Amundsen. Presumably it succeeded commercially against the competing Scott model by getting you there sooner and not abandoning you to the elements halfway home . 

[chris p bacon]

6 hours ago, jonny777 said:

After driving almost 1000 miles last week, much of it on single carriageway roads, I have to comment on the weirdness of camper van drivers. I believe they must think "I'm driving a camper van - that is almost an HGV". 

 

If it is a Motorhome of more than 3 tons it is restricted to 50mph on single carriageway and 60mph on dual carriageway.