Driving standards

[kevinlms]

I had a Y Reg Sierra when they came out to replace the well liked Cortina. It was so rare than people came to looks at it in Porthmadog and Portmeirion, and you rarely get that these days, but it was as basic as it gets.

 

When it comes to computer gadgets in cars, my Mondeo and the current Focus Titanium have more than I will ever use although some bits are useful, like the constant read out of fuel consumption that makes me ease up off the gas. However, considering we are passing at combined speeds of 120mph on normal roads, the most important component is still mechanical and it's what keep us all apart on roads. The steering wheel.

It fails its usefulness, when it gives false reading. My car has a settings which tell you approximately how far away until you run out of fuel. Mine has lost its calibration & has run out on me, while proudly proclaiming that it has well over 1/4 tank left.So I need to get it recalibrated.

[runs as required]

It fails its usefulness, when it gives false reading. My car has a settings which tell you approximately how far away until you run out of fuel. Mine has lost its calibration & has run out on me, while proudly proclaiming that it has well over 1/4 tank left.So I need to get it recalibrated.

...so what goes around comes around.

My (oval back window) office beetle was a total liar about its fuel reserve. It had a tap you turned under the dash to go onto reserve (and a dongle to hang on the windscreen mirror to remind you..

I learned never to trust it when out "on safari" doing site inspections out along E African murram roads.. A spare can kept in the front was the only effective 'get you home' measure.

 

dh

[30801]

My 1979 Lada had no damping on the fuel gauge. The needle would happily bounce up and down as you drove along. If you wanted to see how much fuel you actually had you had to stop and wait for the tank to stop sloshing.

[coachmann]

At a local supermarket in an area which has quite a few older people, some with disable badges just abandon their cars, certainly not parked. They have much wider spaces separated by large blue strips and one day a lady parked perfectly between the lines only to readjust her car so it straddled (at an angle) both blue strips either side of her parking bay. And as for parking wars some of these gentle folk get quite aggressive. And many totally fail to follow the white arrows showing the required traffic flow direction

 

 

 

I'm sure some old men are deliberately awkward. It is as if they resented we didn't do National Service and the little hitler on their shoulder seems to have grown as they got older. But I had a pleasant surprise from one last week. My wife is waiting for a new knee and can't walk very far so i shot into an invalid parking space while she popped into Tesco. Within seconds an old fella got out of his car and tapped on my window. I assumed he was going to tell me I had no right to park there but before I could ask him if he won the war for me, he asked how I folded my mirrors in! He too had a Focus and we spent the next 10 minutes going through his instruction manual...haha!

Edited August 9, 2015 by coachmann

[Mark Saunders]

Driving Standards!

 

What about Pedestrian standards?

 

Roads without pavements, the majority of pedestrians walk with their backs to oncoming traffic and then frequently step out in front of an oncoming vehicle!

 

They beat the Lemming in to second place!

 

Mark Saunders

[alastairq]

All this talk [!] of death and injury on our roads...makes me wonder...just what was the gene pool for?

 

The problem older people have, IMHO, is an increased awareness of vulnerability.

 

[The media attention doesn't help]

 

For many, to overcome the innate, society-generated fears they have, they resort to aggressive behaviour.

 

The current anti-age driver thing going around is a case in point.

 

For sure, if a young driver makes a mistake, that then is seen as acceptable........but if an older driver does the same, then there is an outcry to ban old drivers.

 

Too many folk confuse the  time one has held a driving licence, with 'experience'!

 

Even more confuse high mileage drivers with 'expertise'.

 

Spend your working day driving up & down a motorway, and really, what 'experience' have you acquired?

 

Given that, a motorway is in fact, the safest, easiest road to drive upon. [Little, or no, conflicting traffic, for a start]

 

A bus driver spending an 8 hour shift driving in & out of [the same?] traffic jam will have more experience of interacting with other road users, than an LGV driver spending most of that 8 hours on a motorway. 

 

Part Of my brief during my working day [or night] is to assess the driving standards displayed...and offer advice, coaching and mentoring to reduce/eliminate faults.

 

I often find, whilst a driver is perfectly comfortable driving down wide A-roads for long distances....chuck them into a small town environment, and they suddenly fall apart, displaying the  sort of skills I wold expect of a day 2 Cat B driver.

 

So, I don't pay much attention to so-called experience, relying on what I observe whilst being driven.

 

[Recently having had, as a student, a C+E driver of 20 years experience or more, working as a drive..who genuinely thought it was 'legal' to exceed the speed limit whilst overtaking!...Even the lad sat next to him was amazed at what he heard.

 

EXperience?

 

Or,proof of the pudding, etc?]

 

As a [one-time] bus driver, I always considered it perfectly acceptable to crunch a gear now & then, or miss-hit one....especially considering, perhaps in one hour, I might be stopping and restarting every 90 seconds or so at bus stops...so that would be 3 down, 4 up every time....how many gear changes is that in an hour?

 

Then work out for a 8 hour shift, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year....times by 25.....and I think I'm entitled to mis-hit a gear now and then! [OK, so a lot of those 25 years weren't driving a crash gearbox, I admit]...

 

Yet, to hear [read?] many so-called experienced car drivers, such a simple error is totally unacceptable!

 

My view is, we all make mistakes. The mistakes themselves are normal....the crux of the matter centres on how we rectify and deal with those mistakes.....and that is what..IMHO, driver training..or any training, is all about!

 

The identification, and safe correction of, mistakes.

 

The problems arise when drivers fail to identify mistakes, or do nothing about them when they occur.

[ianwales]

Just a shame it is only in England and Wales . When I cross the border ( into Scotland ) things revert back to a snails pace .

 

I think the traffics flows a lot better . It saves a good few dangerous overtaking manoeuvres by cars that are quite happy to enjoy the new enhanced speed limit .

 

Mike b

 

What I find really annoying about this is if someone wants to sit behind a juggernaut at a slow speed then so be it, but, why can't they leave a couple of car lengths between them and the lorry to assist those of us with faster cars to overtake, I drive a  VW GTD which can rapidly pass single cars, but 2 or 3 jogging along behind a juggernaut deafeats me and leads to annoyance and frustration.

 

Ian

[Black Sheep]

Parents ( mostly women) refusing to close their doors when you pass them, especially the rear doors. I guess they are strapping their kids in. Firstly would it not be safer for all to have the seat on the pavement side, secondly they seem not to be worried about their and their property safety. Lastly its downright inconsiderate to others. I find a quick tap on the horn tends to bump their head on the door frame.

 

 

I make sure as much distance as I can see is free from traffic before starting strapping my daughter in, if I stop half way through strapping her in there is a high chance, especially when getting her out, that she'll lean forward out of the seat and land in the footwell or at risk of tumbling out of the car.

 

It takes me 2 minutes in or out after which I will quickly close the door and step behind my car out of the way while waving in thanks for waiting.

 

Just thought I'd give the other side of the coin

[Downendian]

I do enjoy these threads, but there have been several similar ones over the RMWeb years, covering similar issues.

 

Do you remember one where Chubber had a number of us going with references to "cruising and fast lanes" on the motorway and the handy "picnic and viewing spots" the department of transport provide off the hard shoulder. It was hilarious and many hadn't twigged his tongue in cheek line for several days. It was of course well before the coming and going of the disagree button. I'd love to find that old thread, have searched but to no avail.

 

Neil

[Allegheny1600]

I make sure as much distance as I can see is free from traffic before starting strapping my daughter in, if I stop half way through strapping her in there is a high chance, especially when getting her out, that she'll lean forward out of the seat and land in the footwell or at risk of tumbling out of the car.

 

It takes me 2 minutes in or out after which I will quickly close the door and step behind my car out of the way while waving in thanks for waiting.

 

Just thought I'd give the other side of the coin

Fair enough but as Hayfield said, Why not put the little ones in on the pavement side?

If it's hard to do on your own drive, park the other way round!

.

And that's another thing!

I almost always reverse onto my drive so I can drive out - I'm pretty sure you are supposed to do this anyway but how many others do you see do this?

Virtually none of my near neighbours, apart from one new guy over the road, do this and sometimes I see my immediate neighbour struggling for ages to get out - it's ridiculous! My brother in law reversed out from my drive one night and smashed into another parked car but did he learn his lesson? (No!)

Despairing,

John E.

[Black Sheep]

Unfortunately Victorian terraces, while being wonderful houses even 100 years on didn't make provision for cars and I have to park on the road. I usuall do so facing with traffic but on occasion I've turned the car to do so on my side of the road but in the time taken to turn the space has been taken and do I take the next available space.

 

In a year or two it may not make a difference as there could be one to be gotten out from each side

[Reorte]

Driving Standards!

 

What about Pedestrian standards?

 

Roads without pavements, the majority of pedestrians walk with their backs to oncoming traffic and then frequently step out in front of an oncoming vehicle!

 

They beat the Lemming in to second place!

The lemming tendency is rather annoying I agree. Whether it's always been like that (of course there's always been some, and everyone has the occasional lapse of judgment) or is increasing due to the increased lack of need for any personal responsibility / common sense is open to debate. I saw someone get rather uppity about the idea a page or two ago, which I felt was rather in denial.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Reorte

[alastairq]

 

 

I almost always reverse onto my drive so I can drive out - I'm pretty sure you are supposed to do this anyway but how many others do you see do this?

 

In the UK, there is nothing mandatory that requires one to do that.

 

And, I'm not sure which really is the worst idea.....backing out of  a driveway, where one is required to 'give way' to all other traffic....[try 'not stopping moving' when reversing around a corner on test, and someone hoves into view?]...or, screeching to a halt on the road, then suddenly reversing into one's driveway...usually with little regard to other, following, traffic [can't you see what I'm trying to do?]...or indeed, oncoming traffic when one's front swings out over the other side of the road?

 

Witnessed an almost-incident yesterday in a Morrisons car park.....I'm sat in my Dai-Hatsu, wondering what to do next, as I do...woman in Mini Pooper in front, starts up, checks all around, then starts reversing out carefully.

 

Parked right opposite her is a large, high sided brick thingy VW/Ford-hall...or maybe it was Korean? This brick starts reversing out, completely oblivious of the Mini which is now right behind. I can see the driver in their mirror, completely ignorant of anything behind. Mini lady promptly engages forward gear, and pops back into parking space....brick driver continues reversing without faltering, totally unaware. [or, totally didn't give a damn?] Mini driver looking exasperated, had my sympathy [and would have had my name and addy if contact had occurred.....]..then reversed out to continue with her life. I hope the brick driver soon hits something solid and concrete....[i'd like to help, too]....

 

I only reverse out of my drive without a care, when someone is approaching at around 60 mph.....[why should I assume they're doing any more than 30?]    I do like putting folk, 'on the spot' so to speak....worry them a little bit? They need worrying!

[Catkins]

As a commercial vehicle driver I get to see quite a few bits of 'interesting' examples of driving every day

e.g 1 - last Thursday heading northwards on the A14 in Huntingdonshire, I noticed a Romanian registered Audi A6 carve its way through the traffic, using a slip road exit to undertake some traffic.

e.g 2 - On Huntingdon Road in Cambridge, I had a cyclist undertake my vehicle in some roadworks, the work site is protected by the solid red/white barrier things.

e.g 3 - Yesterday I had a BMW 3 series overtake me on a short straight of the A444 near Twycross - I had seen him coming a mile off quite literaly.

e.g 4 - Again Yesterday I had a Honda CRV tailgate me into a haulage yard, and then he drove across my nose as I was reversing my vehicle - normally not a problem, but I was not used to the vehicle and had (unintentionally) stood on the brakes a couple of times on the way into the yard.

 

But just to show it's not all car drivers

 

e.g 5 - last Friday, whilst I was negotiating the "CattleMarket Roundabout" on the A46 at Newark-Upon-Trent I had a 44Tonne Artic(operated by ******* of *****) go from lane two of the Northbound A46 - with a vehicle on his inside - to exit on the A616 right across my nose, without any signals.

 

 

In closing though, I will point out that when I learnt to drive, I had about twenty lessons of two hours each, once a week and I used to practise in my dad's car between lessons - now every second (car) driving school is advertising 'learn in 5 days' and I wonder where and when do these pupils pick up basic experience?

[cheesysmith]

just been checking the highway code (avalible online for free) and section 201 states you must, where possible, reverse into driveways and drive out of them.

[alastairq]

 

 

now every second (car) driving school is advertising 'learn in 5 days' and I wonder where and when do these pupils pick up basic experience?

 

BAsic experience?

 

Oh, you mean, non-professional supervision, where incorrect procedures can be unintentionally acquired?

 

There are two methods of driver training. Either a short period lesson at regular intervals [or, irregular intervals] or , intensive training without break, over a period of days. The problem with the former is something called 'training fade'...where the student has to spend a decent percentage of time during the next lesson, simply revising what they achieved last time. The latter is the method the military use,and is very effective. 

What happens after the licence is acquired, in both methods, is where the 'system', if you like, falls down.

 

[Let's be right, no-one can ever teach someone 'to drive'. For starters, what form of 'quality control' is the instructor going to apply, to confirm the student has achieved the objective? Currently, the confirmation the student has achieved a certain level of competence is the driving test. Therefore, the instructor's objective is for their student to achieve a level of competence to pass the test...license acquisition. As I said, no-one can teach anyone 'to drive'.....put it this way, whose standard of driving is going to be the bench mark? Yours? Mine? Whose?  ]

 

The biggest problem with 'experience' is, how do we learn from it?

 

Without coaching or instruction [ie, being made aware]  folk actually tend to learn all the wrong things from their 'experiences.'  Learning to 'learn' from experience is something at the core of most so-called 'advanced' driver training.

[alastairq]

just been checking the highway code (avalible online for free) and section 201 states you must, where possible, reverse into driveways and drive out of them.

 

But,doing so is not mandatory. The wording does not include the word 'must'...

 

 

 

When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can.

 

 Like a lot of things in the Highway Code, it is advice....

 

The above hilites a particular problem with road users, and the Highway Code.....it is all too often misread, or misunderstood...often, the important wording is ignored.

 

For example, observe how drivers fail to take advantage of road markings,  or comply correctly, simply because they have misunderstood the rules, as per the HC...[although quite a lot simply couldn't care less]

[cheesysmith]

notice the word IF YOU CAN. this to me state that if you can do so, but chose not to you are deliberately breaking the highway code, which is a traffic offence?

[hayfield]

I make sure as much distance as I can see is free from traffic before starting strapping my daughter in, if I stop half way through strapping her in there is a high chance, especially when getting her out, that she'll lean forward out of the seat and land in the footwell or at risk of tumbling out of the car.

 

It takes me 2 minutes in or out after which I will quickly close the door and step behind my car out of the way while waving in thanks for waiting.

 

Just thought I'd give the other side of the coin

 

 

I am sorry but I just do not understand this attitude, you keep your car door open only if it is not obstructing the highway. You have just given the best example of why a child should be put into a car from the pavement, the safety of the child must come first followed by good manners to those using the road.

 

I met a very elderly lady I know who was very distressed as she had just hit a car door whilst driving past a parked car, it was outside a school and thankfully (if there is a anything good to come out of it) it was the dosey driver who opened the door without looking and not a child, and I guess her husbands company picked up the bill.

 

Yes we all make mistakes, but I drive up and down that road twice a day. There are 4 schools in about a mile long stretch of that road, those picking up the children with few exceptions are only concerned with themselves, park where ever they want, leave doors open fail to signal, U turns in the road. Other schools I pass are nearly as bad

[hayfield]

But,doing so is not mandatory. The wording does not include the word 'must'...

 

 

 Like a lot of things in the Highway Code, it is advice....

 

The above hilites a particular problem with road users, and the Highway Code.....it is all too often misread, or misunderstood...often, the important wording is ignored.

 

For example, observe how drivers fail to take advantage of road markings,  or comply correctly, simply because they have misunderstood the rules, as per the HC...[although quite a lot simply couldn't care less]

 

This is very similar to golf. The laws of golf you obey (you must), the rules are just a guide (You should or you may)

[PhilJ W]

Driving Standards!

 

What about Pedestrian standards?

 

Roads without pavements, the majority of pedestrians walk with their backs to oncoming traffic and then frequently step out in front of an oncoming vehicle!

 

They beat the Lemming in to second place!

 

Mark Saunders

On several recent occasions I have had pedestrians step out in front of me without looking, more often than not while texting on a mobile. Even a quick blast on the horn doesn't wake them from their reverie. Perhaps a ton of car at 30 mph will?

 

What I find really annoying about this is if someone wants to sit behind a juggernaut at a slow speed then so be it, but, why can't they leave a couple of car lengths between them and the lorry to assist those of us with faster cars to overtake, I drive a  VW GTD which can rapidly pass single cars, but 2 or 3 jogging along behind a juggernaut deafeats me and leads to annoyance and frustration.

 

Ian

I do leave space between me and the vehicle in front, its called braking distance. Its for my benefit not for the 'Hurry up Henry's' to dive into. As has been stated trucks are now fitted with speed limiters so if I wish to pass one I wait until it is safe to do so, and the opportunity to do so arises after a minute or two, unless of course one of the 'Hurry up Henry's' has imposed himself between me and the said truck, usually so close to the truck that he cant see when it is safe to pass.

[Nimbus]

Parked right opposite her is a large, high sided brick thingy VW/Ford-hall...or maybe it was Korean? This brick starts reversing out, completely oblivious of the Mini which is now right behind. I can see the driver in their mirror, completely ignorant of anything behind. Mini lady promptly engages forward gear, and pops back into parking space....brick driver continues reversing without faltering, totally unaware. [or, totally didn't give a damn?]

The 'brickness' of so many current cars is slyly marketed as an intrinsic safety feature. The psychology being that other road users will avoid contact by virtue of fear of elimination. In other words, intimidation. I feel this myself even on my Sunday stroll to church, past these devices which at that time are mostly slumbering in the (formerly) nicer front gardens of this village.

 

It obviously works, as they seem to be getting the upper hand. One chap I know online has decided to whittle down his collection of '90s Rovers to replace them with a brick to transport a newly arrived first child, precisely out of fear of coming off worst in a meeting with a brick driven in accordance with the driving standards of his district.

 

It's an arms race.

 

The Nim.

[Horsetan]

When bikers park half in and half out of a parking bay, I see it as a test of my parking skills.... :-) Brand new bike's no good if it gets tipped over!

[Black Sheep]

I am sorry but I just do not understand this attitude, you keep your car door open only if it is not obstructing the highway. You have just given the best example of why a child should be put into a car from the pavement, the safety of the child must come first followed by good manners to those using the road.

 

 

Be that as it may, it is not always possible. 9 times out of 10 I am able to park on the side of the road I live on facing with traffic, the neighbours we have will often park across the road (those houses have driveways) to leave space for the residents with children to not need to cross the road at all which we are thankful for.

 

Unfortunately, as I have said earlier in this thread there are occasions the space I have planned to park in has been taken while I am turning in a side street and so I take the available space quickly to not be blocking the road with the entire car while I turn.

 

Some parents have no choice but to unload a child away from the pavement as the other parent is getting the other child out, the bulky design of child seats preventing climbing through the car.

 

I assess the risk and act accordingly and quickly, it takes me no longer to get my daughter in or out than it does myself and I wait until their is no traffic before starting - I can not speak for others nor the school run as daughter is yet to turn 2

[ParkeNd]

That's where your loathed Y reg Sierra driver, will still be able to drive safely because (s)he has retained the skills of so doing.

Your perception that drivers of old bangers are skilled drivers with absolutely no risk of ever having an accident is flawed. Despite possibly having just drum brakes at the rear, no ABS, old and possibly mismatched tyre brands, and having been fixed with copy parts or secondhand parts only when they break down, it does not follow that the driver makes allowances for the severe limitations being imposed on him. As for the earlier suggestion that in an emergency the driver of a new car with superb brakes has to brake at less than full potential because the old heap behind him is unlikely to make it is really taking the defense of old cars too far. Edited August 10, 2015 by ParkeNd