Dapol 08

[Greenmodelmonkey]

From the way the alleged comments made at Telford by a senior Dapol employee were communicated may suggest the problem is not a Chinese manufacturing issue and may well have met Dapol's spec or level of acceptance (apart from Dapol who knows?) "Thank you for making me aware, I will look into it" might have been a more professional response, however this would not excuse them for the potential errors kindly pointed out to them in the first place. The lack of further communication either way through their suppliers, on their own digest or web pages is a little disconcerting as I believe they are fully aware of what is being said here but have chosen to stay tight lipped for some reason (?).

 

Real shame as I was so impressed with the loco when I saw it running at Bristol in its raw unpainted state its actually amazing really so applaud Dapol and their Chinese manufacture for that!!! (Even if it did lack the lifting eyes on roof that Hornby had manage to achieve in the small scale and get the brush-off when I mentioned them).

[Tricky-CRS]

Dapol have responded to most if not all of the above on their forum

 

https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/o-gauge-models/locomotives/class-08/project-managers-blog-ai/394-o-class-08-opening-statement

 

As to what was said at last weekend I will refrain from defending or passing comment.

[Osgood]

Dapol have responded to most if not all of the above on their forum…..

 

Thanks for posting the link - clears up most matters!

 

Being very pedantic, I suspect the black roof on that last photo might in fact be blue but with a coating of 'rail grime' on it, just as the radiator top has.

The coat of grime on the radiator top is more obvious because of the radiused top creating a gradual change from blue to grime - the cab having a definite angle change does not show this.

Photos of lesser- mucked up locos show a graduated change on cab roof too.

But in the great scheme of things just shove a uniform layer of rail grime on it and hey presto!  

 

Would it be fair to conclude that Dapol are trying very hard to get it right - and for the most art succeeding?

 

Regarding responses at shows - if you were to stand quietly for a while and listen to the way some folk (who genuinely and sincerely believe there is something wrong), put their point across, you might be glad you weren't the one having to dream up a polite reply…...

Edited September 9, 2016 by Osgood

[edcayton]

But I don't want a black bonnet on my green/wasp stripes 08!

 

Ed

[Osgood]

But I don't want a black bonnet on my green/wasp stripes 08!

 

Ed

 

 

I have no doubt your wish will come true in a future release - what are the symptoms of 08 withdrawal syndrome?

[CME and Bottlewasher]

If they painted the 08 all over blue in the first instance , then no one would be complaining or debating the issue , then if you searched the internet and found a class 08 with a black roof you could paint it yourself ! This applies to the trunking for the lights. As the MAJORITY of the class don't have black roofs why do it.

I tend to agree and black is easy to over-paint on blue.....

 

That's a rather, erm... "optimistic" view of Heljan..?? Most of their 7mm diesels have had errors pointed out yet go uncorrected. They've been hard-to-correct dimensional things, too, not just painting issues - except for the Loadhaul Class 60, of course

Agreed Jordan, IIRC we have mutual friends, who, due to continual gear problems, sold their small 'fleets' of Heljan locos. Things are better in that regard now, yet as I say, even though I have been relatively lucky, Heljan's build quality does leave something to be desired at times and other times its great....let alone certain accuracy issues, the models I have are more than 'acceptable' as layout models though....

 

My point is if the roof was blue to begin with then there would be no issue,or if the lighting trunking was as the position the majority of the class had again no issue, I would have been the first to congratulate Dapol for there effort if not for these errors

Agreed, the issue, the irony is that in Dapol selecting the Terrier and 08, presumably because of their longevity and popularity, is that long lived classes are subject to numerous variations - RW told me that the tool-boxes et al are moveable - so therefore that then leaves the most widespread and popular liveries for Dapol to apply - is this now a 'Doh!' moment? I understand that the BFYE 08s are available in two blue liveries, numbered and unnumbered and DCC ready and DCC equiped (at least that was published fact, according to Dapol's advert circa May/June 2016?)....

 

There would be an issue as not every blue 08 has a blue roof. If someone doesn't want to paint black bits yellow why should they paint blue bits black?

 

Here is 08202, the locomotive that has been modelled by Dapol that is in question ->  https://flic.kr/p/fKcnU8. It is bright yellow. It has a bright yellow roof. Should it be blue?

Easier to paint satin/matt black by brush or rattle can than vice versa......

 

You know I am just grateful that there is a rtr O gauge model at a price I might just be able to afford, and because I only use rivets for fastening and have no knowledge what so ever of what should be where, remain blissfully disinterested in whatever shortcomings it may have.

You could always try tinplate!?

 

I am happy that models such as the Dapol 08 are making an appearance as the 08 is fairly accurate/smooth running, plus a good price relatively speaking, BUT (that's a big J Lo sized BUTt) please dont let the manufacturers off that lightly (or encourage them) - many businesses these days need little encouragement when £s, laziness, contempt (for customers), disinterest, poor customer service and greed etc hone into view, I bet that you were in the crowd when the emperor's new clothes were revealed!?    

 

I presume that you will be purchasing the following or similar then (hardly a bolt-head or rivet to be seen)?   ;

 

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/archive/class-08__o_t__t_42600.html 

 

Or maybe this 'gem'  (it's roughly the same price as a Dapol 08, as it's roughly an 03, not a lot of rivets though, no rods either)!;  

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/O-Gauge-Kit-Built-BR-Class-O3-Diesel-Shunter-Locomotive-/322225874166

 

Let us hope that the Dapol 08 comes in a choice of accurate and appropriate liveries......Dapol would be mad not to do so.

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited September 9, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Dapol have responded to most if not all of the above on their forum

 

https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/o-gauge-models/locomotives/class-08/project-managers-blog-ai/394-o-class-08-opening-statement

 

As to what was said at last weekend I will refrain from defending or passing comment.

Looks like some back-peddling going on on Dapol's part?

 

It didnt happen that way with the 6 wheel tanks, the POWs et al.

 

So perhaps the 'noise'      on here has now sunk into Dapol's consciousness?

 

Lets hope so then everyone will be happy     

 

ATVB

 

CME 

[Tricky-CRS]

Looks like some back-peddling going on on Dapol's part?

 

It didnt happen that way with the 6 wheel tanks, the POWs et al.

 

So perhaps the 'noise'      on here has now sunk into Dapol's consciousness?

 

Lets hope so then everyone will be happy     

 

ATVB

 

CME 

 

So even when they are right and say that the models on show were samples and will be corrected you still find room to criticise. Your assumptions have been found to be wrong this is not back peddling as you put it if the it was in fact sorted several weeks ago.

[brianthesnail96]

Lets hope so then everyone will be happy

Yeah, right. We are talking about railway modellers here!

 

Personally it's not nearly enough desert sand for my tastes, but there you go.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

So even when they are right and say that the models on show were samples and will be corrected you still find room to criticise. Your assumptions have been found to be wrong this is not back peddling as you put it if the it was in fact sorted several weeks ago.

Read my Posts again - I am not criticising! - I have Posted a lot of praise re the 08, since when I first viewed, handled and 'drove' it, in April 2016!

 

I have made no 'assumptions' either (I NEVER ASSUME!).....I have obtained information from the horses mouth.....AND guess what, as with all other of Dapol's communications, it's contradictory!

 

Lets just focus, if I may, for a moment, on your good-self. IIRC you took a similar approach to my comments (re Dapol) in the past, would you therefore remind me and everyone else here, are you the fellow who has an undeclared interest in Dapol (in that you sponsor/commission them to make models for you)?? Please clarify, if I am wrong then I shall apologise in that regard (and remove this aspect of the Post). I have declared myself four square and true herewith and outwith in the past, would you be kind enough to do the same - BTW I thought that you werent going to comment anyway according to the statement made within your OP?

 

So as a brief explanation to everyone here, from my POV, as I have been told today by two reputable retail sources......I await Dapol's further reply.

 

The comments which I referred to - and to which Tricky CRS is referring - are in reference to the comments made by Dapol on their forum which basically said that (in answer to a Poster's comments which were made in a similar vein to many here); '....... the livered models on display will be tweaked and they are not the production models...just a representation etc etc.......' (in précis and not verbatim) - hence my comment re 'back-peddling' and that such never happened with the previous rolling stock releases in 7mm from Dapol - even though Dapol implied that it would. So in this regard, Dapol have 'form'!

 

Dapol's communications - or lack of effective communications - have frustrated modellers, box collectors, retailers and journos alike - fact. Dapol in doing so and not following through on promises are creating an air of mistrust, something that they need to address, I would have thought.

 

1) So, to date, the facts;- a blue 08 (BFYE) with a black cab roof is reasonably common (or weathering can hide such - but beware many 08s as they are slow speed locos dont weather the same as a mainline loco, they tend to 'bleach' and fade, there is always the exception to the rule however and the cab roofs often got very dirty, so such could be used as a 'get out clause' by the modeller), the black radiator surround isnt as common though and will be harder for many to rectify!;

 

2) The Dapol GFYE 08 (wasp stripes), according to two reputable retailers and Dapol's information (although I havent yet spoken to Dapol on such as they havent returned my calls), will have an all over grey roof (bonnet and cab), which as far as I can tell, is rarer than the BFYE 08 with black cab roof! The green 08 will just have the grey cab roof. The cab-door type on these earlier locos was wood/wooden surround so I am not so sure how accurate the model is in that regard.

 

So the big question is, will these esoteric livery choices be rectified before delivery (as implied/stated on Dapol's forum) or will we be getting Dapol's interpretation which seems to be somewhat off beam in terms of the mundane and the common nature (ie ubiquitous) of the vast majority of earlier 08s. To me the current stated liveries (BFYE & GFYE) should, with the esoteric anomalies, if correct, be, almost,  'special edition' models and not the common-or-garden versions, that many, I suspect wish to own and use. Dapol's choices seem bizarre! Oh and according to the two reputable retailers - large box movers - the liveries are GFYE (with GREY ROOF and BONNET) and BFYE (with BLACK CAB ROOF and BLACK RADIATOR SURROUND)......' as the liveries stated by Dapol stand ....' (in précis and not verbatim). Everyone confused now?!

 

If buying a green loco airbrushing yellow over green and adding wasp stripes will be a real chore, airbrushing green over a grey bonnet maybe easier, but still a - lesser - chore.....time will tell.

 

To date the only photographic evidence I can find of GFYE (with BLACK BONNET/ENGINE ROOM AND CAB ROOF - and BLACK RADIATOR SURROUNDS) is D3219 (13219) at Brighton in 1963, recently out-shopped(?) and still with ladders fitted. I shall keep looking - also have yet to find a colour photo of a BFYE 08 with a black roof having a black radiator surround. Dapol are implying - with their specs and drawings - that their model of D3219/13219 Bonnet/Engine Room top and Cab Roof is GREY, when it should be BLACK?!

 

IIRC a fair few lobbied Dapol, early on, for a GFYE 08 un-numbered....strange then that Dapol chose to manufacture D3219 in a less than common livery.

 

I may, now, feel inclined to criticise Dapol for the confusion, awful communications and esoteric choices.....but I await further replies from the horses mouth.

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited September 10, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Guest 40-something]

If the green and blue initial releases turn out to be figments of Dapols imaginations then many people may cancel their orders and await future releases.  This may then play out in 2 ways...

 

1.  Retailers may be forced to drop the prices which will allow the modellers amongst us to snap up cheap ones to customise as we wish, which could result in...

2.  ...the initial releases become rare due to low prices to clear stocks and those that end up unmodified lying in cupboards being put on eBay and the collectors paying top dollar for them in a few years

 

Win win situations for modellers and collectors.  I might add another to my initial order just in case!

 

Im going to stick my neck out here but if you're modelling in 7mm and cant pick up a paint brush (whether the livery is wrong or not) then it may be the wrong scale for you at the moment.  Im new to 7mm, having flirted with the odd loco and wagon for the past year or so, this 08 is the driving force of a new layout in 7mm, and I expect to detail/paint/weather as much as I do in 4mm.  But then again, I enjoy personalising my stock.

 

I still this this 08, painted wrong or not is a blooming bargain.  It looks like an 08 and the wasp stripes (if they were wrong I would probably pass) are right so Im happy.

[Guest 40-something]

Dapol have responded to most if not all of the above on their forum

 

https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/o-gauge-models/locomotives/class-08/project-managers-blog-ai/394-o-class-08-opening-statement

 

As to what was said at last weekend I will refrain from defending or passing comment.

"Black roof - never happened on 80202

 

Please refer to the photo

 

Red con-rods with yellow buffers - again, never happened

 

Again, please refer to the photo"

 

BOOM (as the kool kidz say)

 

I would say the roof is dirty rather than black in the photo mind you

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by 40-something

[Hal Nail]

 

"Black roof - never happened on 80202

 

Please refer to the photo

 

Red con-rods with yellow buffers - again, never happened

 

Again, please refer to the photo"

 

 

And as he typed that response, he was probably thinking "if you don't like it, you could always get a f*cking paint brush out"

[F-UnitMad]

But I don't want a black bonnet on my green/wasp stripes 08!

 

Ed

I find that picture quite amazing - of all the hundreds of Gronks that wore standard green/wasp stripes (all of them, possibly, in the '60s??) Dapol had to go and model a non-standard one (maybe the only one??) with a black bonnet!!??!! The mind boggles. 

I note that at least a black radiator surround is accurate for it though...     

[Greenmodelmonkey]

So even when they are right and say that the models on show were samples and will be corrected you still find room to criticise. Your assumptions have been found to be wrong this is not back peddling as you put it if the it was in fact sorted several weeks ago.

Then why was this not conveyed at the Telford show if it had been sorted several weeks ago as suggested. All 'smoke and mirrors' to me in fact there is so much smoke I can't see the mirrors. Edited September 9, 2016 by Greenmodelmonkey

[Greenmodelmonkey]

I find that picture quite amazing - of all the hundreds of Gronks that wore standard green/wasp stripes (all of them, possibly, in the '60s??) Dapol had to go and model a non-standard one (maybe the only one??) with a black bonnet!!??!! The mind boggles. 

I note that at least a black radiator surround is accurate for it though...  

 

AGREED and it's now getting beyond a joke... black bonnet(?) and I thought grey was bad enough! Photo from Dapol does not look black to me or grey, perhaps it's really green and just a trick of the light and grime. More sensible to have gone with BR green in the first place just like Hornby did perhaps with a different loco number if needed.

[Guest 40-something]

AGREED and it's now getting beyond a joke... black bonnet(?) and I thought grey was bad enough! Photo from Dapol does not look black to me or grey, perhaps it's really green and just a trick of the light and grime. More sensible to have gone with BR green in the first place just like Hornby did perhaps with a different loco number if needed.

Its a toy train, calm down

[kirtleypete]

Perhaps we should wait until we have the actual production models, the at least any comments will be based on sound knowledge.

 

Peter

[Greenmodelmonkey]

Perhaps we should wait until we have the actual production models, the at least any comments will be based on sound knowledge.

 

Peter

Yes agreed, however I expect the first time you will see a production model will be when you have opened the box after purchase. I assume you will be allowed to return it if not happy and I'm sure many won't but for those that are not happy then I expect they will have to return at there own cost. Think I will wait and see even if it means I don't get one later due to demand. I'm collector not a modeller and it has to be right in my eyes I was expecting to purchase more than one because of how impressed I was when I saw it at Bristol in its raw state.

 

Also in response to comment directed at me by '40-something' suggesting I "calm down its only a toy" .... no its not a toy in my eyes but obviously is in yours. Each to their own I suppose, perhaps you should have campaigned for a friction drive version as it's a rather expensive toy in its current state (I'm calm now thank you).

Edited September 10, 2016 by Greenmodelmonkey

[Guest 40-something]

Yes agreed, however I expect the first time you will see a production model will be when you have opened the box after purchase. I assume you will be allowed to return it if not happy and I'm sure many won't but for those that are not happy then I expect they will have to return at there own cost. Think I will wait and see even if it means I don't get one later due to demand. I'm collector not a modeller and it has to be right in my eyes I was expecting to purchase more than one because of how impressed I was when I saw it at Bristol in its raw state.

 

Also in response to comment directed at me by '40-something' suggesting I "calm down its only a toy" .... no its not a toy in my eyes but obviously is in yours. Each to their own I suppose, perhaps you should have campaigned for a friction drive version as it's a rather expensive toy in its current state (I'm calm now thank you).

It is a toy, to me it is for sure, and in the grand scheme of things, its not that expensive - take a games console, £300 to buy, 50 quid a game, very poor resale value.   

 

The definition of a toy is an item that can be used for play, typically a model or miniature replica.  Its a distraction from real life.

 

As a collector, surely you'll be looking out for anomolies to make it that more desirable?  As a collector, surely you'll be wanting to collect the full range of Dapol 08's, livery errors or not?

 

Im a modeller and I personally dont care if it comes with a purple roof with green spots, as long as its the right shape and the wasp stripes are right, then at £170 Im a happy bunny. After all, any other 7mm 08 is going to cost me the thick end of £400 and i'll still have to build and paint it, and I know I wont be able to make a good job on the wasp stripes.

 

At the end of the day, no one is forcing you to buy it, so leave it on the shelf and look elsewhere

[Guest 40-something]

If you are determined to get an all over green with grey cab roof 08, for £300 you can have this...

Edited September 10, 2016 by 40-something

[F-UnitMad]

 

Im a modeller and I personally dont care if it comes with a purple roof with green spots, as long as its the right shape and the wasp stripes are right, then at £170 Im a happy bunny. After all, any other 7mm 08 is going to cost me the thick end of £400 and i'll still have to build and paint it, and I know I wont be able to make a good job on the wasp stripes.

 

 

Agree that the correct shape is far more important than correct paint, although it is nice to have both.

I'm more used to the American market, where models are often available undecorated, for the modeller to apply their livery of choice. No doubt if Dapol had included that option here, there'd be someone complain about it.

[Tove]

If you are determined to get an all over green with grey cab roof 08, for £300 you can have this...

I`m trying my hardest not to comment at the moment till i have 'both' of my loco`s in my hands.

 

But as the loco in the link is described as;  BUILT AND FINISHED TO A GOOD STANDARD  ???

 

Then i definetly don`t mind getting the paint out for the odd roof........

 

Brian.

[No Decorum]

Im a modeller and I personally dont care if it comes with a purple roof with green spots, as long as its the right shape and the wasp stripes are right ...

When you’ve finished painting it, may we have a picture please?

[Signaller69]

As the JLTRT kit is £100 or so dearer and still needs motor, wheels, gears, building and painting (see link - oh look its got a black cab roof!)

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/JLTRT-BR-Class-08-Shunter-O-gauge-loco-kit-/262611949635?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202351%2526meid%253D8778a4393fc74f7c806882761621d35d%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D4%2526rkt%253D17%2526sd%253D201622457953&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

then the Dapol one is bound to be a hit even if it does contain some slight detail or livery errors. May even tempt me into 'O' and that is saying something. ;-)

 

Edit: my 1972 Ian Allen combined volume has a photo of ex works D4100 in BFYE with the black radiator surrounds, wasp stripes up the full height, and red(?) bufferbeams, but still with (white) full height bonnet ladders and black rods. Bonnet hood definately blue, cab roof may be blue or black. Just so many variations on these locos which are perceived to be standard, and thats without such detail variations as wood or steel cab doors, end pipework and different bodyside equipment boxes. . .

Edited September 10, 2016 by Signaller69