PeteB Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 ...so it shouldnt take too long to cad/cam........i know, famous last words. lol Presumably you will have a bit less to do for the chassis this time round - all the internals, motor, drive chain etc should be the same as the class 71. Will you be able to just produce more of the same class 71 chassis unit from the factory for the class 74? I just pulled this out of my drawer - I wonder if I should try and build it before the DJM ones arrive? I have little doubt the DJM one will somewhat overshadow it! Pete 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 How are the orders looking on this Dave. Really hope this goes ahead as my two 71's need a friend! Cheers Trailrage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Presumably you will have a bit less to do for the chassis this time round - all the internals, motor, drive chain etc should be the same as the class 71. Will you be able to just produce more of the same class 71 chassis unit from the factory for the class 74? I just pulled this out of my drawer - I wonder if I should try and build it before the DJM ones arrive? I have little doubt the DJM one will somewhat overshadow it! Pete Go on, go on, go on, you know you really want to (have both that is) Here's one of Charlie's on Chessington (Chalk Lane). I have my 71 and have a 74 on order as the one you see on the photo was sold after the layout was sold. Edited July 11, 2017 by Judge Dread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'll add my voice for an update please on the Class 74 crowdfunding position. It's been 2 months since the 71s arrived, so would have thought that any increase in pre orders would be in that sweetheart period. I've set my own deadline of end August. If no decision has been made by then I'm afraid I shall be withdrawing from the project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'll add my voice for an update please on the Class 74 crowdfunding position. It's been 2 months since the 71s arrived, so would have thought that any increase in pre orders would be in that sweetheart period. I've set my own deadline of end August. If no decision has been made by then I'm afraid I shall be withdrawing from the project. Obviously you failed to read Dave's post on his new update thread. Last paragraph of the first post on this page. His update page so please do not post on it. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123554-djmodels-update-page-please-do-not-post-here/&do=findComment&comment=2766856 No news = no update. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Obviously you failed to read Dave's post on his new update thread. Last paragraph of the first post on this page. His update page so please do not post on it. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123554-djmodels-update-page-please-do-not-post-here/&do=findComment&comment=2766856 No news = no update. Regards Yes and your point is. Am well aware of that new thread, created after a number of Class 92 crowdfunders became concerned about updates on that project. I have read it several times thanks and there is nothing on that thread about the Class 74. Dave had said previously that the numbers signed up were low, but was hopeful that the post Class 71 delivery period would generate more interest. As I have contributed to the Class 74 crowdfunding some time ago, I believe there should be regular updates, just as was discussed a few months ago about the Class 92 crowdfunding. A crowdfunding is more than just a pre order. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 My point is if there is no news then there is no update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 As I have contributed to the Class 74 crowdfunding some time ago, I believe there should be regular updates, just as was discussed a few months ago about the Class 92 crowdfunding. A crowdfunding is more than just a pre order. So now we see the downside to crowdfunding. Contributors regard themselves as having entitlements. I wouldn't want Dave's job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) So now we see the downside to crowdfunding. Contributors regard themselves as having entitlements. Yes, and perhaps they should. You have put your money on the table after all. I know Dave from a long way back and would trust him with the care of my money. Others might not know him so well and be a bit nervous. Regular updates - even if it is 'no news' - make people feel more secure. I know the feeling from the supplier's side having offered to produce models (in my case etches) and then having delays in getting them out, with people's patience wearing thin. But if you go down that route, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Chris Edited July 12, 2017 by Chris Higgs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) I think it should be noted that when the crowdfunding for the class 71 was announced Kernow Models said they would cover cash outlayed if the project did not go ahead. Therefore there would no lost to punters. Patience is required, that's all. Above I have posted a D.C. Kit's class 74 model which I bought and gave over to a fellow club member to build. He told me it would be ready in a matter of weeks but it took just over six months. "Everything comes to him who waits!" Edited July 12, 2017 by Judge Dread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I do feel that maybe the word is not spread far enough. I see Dave on here and in the odd magazine from time to time, but (I think) there is no Facebook page for DJM models for example (so I cannot direct friends on there to it and they don't want to be part of a forum). Comm is important, though it can come as cost too which is hard to justify (unless you do two similar subjects, one with and one without comm and compare). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMinion Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Obviously you failed to read Dave's post on his new update thread. Last paragraph of the first post on this page. His update page so please do not post on it. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123554-djmodels-update-page-please-do-not-post-here/&do=findComment&comment=2766856 No news = no update. Regards True but it is something of a generic statement. I've seen updates on the bullied diesel, the big warship and the clay tigers are in stock but they don't seem to be mentioned on the list either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 True but it is something of a generic statement. I've seen updates on the bullied diesel, the big warship and the clay tigers are in stock but they don't seem to be mentioned on the list either. All of which are Kernow exclusive projects are they not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMinion Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Aren't kernow involved in this too like they were the 71? http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/158/DJ-Models-Class-74-Project-Page By that logic perhaps we shouldn't expect any updates on the update thread so asking on this thread would be proper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMinion Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I do feel that maybe the word is not spread far enough. I see Dave on here and in the odd magazine from time to time, but (I think) there is no Facebook page for DJM models for example (so I cannot direct friends on there to it and they don't want to be part of a forum). Comm is important, though it can come as cost too which is hard to justify (unless you do two similar subjects, one with and one without comm and compare). I certainly would love to see a DJ Models Facebook page. Just look at how many people follow Hornby if you doubt Facebooks reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) So now we see the downside to crowdfunding. Contributors regard themselves as having entitlements. I wouldn't want Dave's job. I'm sorry that is a ridiculous statement to make, when Dave has agreed himself that he needs to give better and improved information on projects that were progressing. He confirmed that in the 'oo' gauge Class 92 crowdfunding project thread in the last month and said in his words ' --- communication has been lousy'. One of the changes he made was to set up the Project Update thread, that only he would post to, so that members could see links to other project threads where update information had been posted. In that new thread there have been updates on the other crowdfunded projects, but nothing on the Class 74. I raised my concern as the Class 74 is the oldest outstanding crowdfunded project, which has been open for 21 months (October 2015) with no decision yet about whether the project can progress to cad completion. I was very surprised and concerned, to find out from Dave's post of a couple of months ago, that the project had only attracted some 25% of the necessary crowdfunded orders and that was after some 19 months. This was the first time I had become aware of how low the interest had been. It made me judge that the project was unlikely to get to the number required and was probably so low that retailer versions probably wouldn't be the answer to get it over the line. Dave wanted to give the project a further kickstart on the tail of the Class 71 delivery, in the hope of achieving further crowdfunders, however for me I think that will be a very tall order and unlikely to be achieved, with so low an interest over such a long period. However I was prepared to stay with it provided we heard what the progress was. So it is with that backdrop that I've asked for an update, and with Dave's own commitment to provide better information I believe it would be helpful to know if the 'kickstart' in the last couple of months has led to an increased uptake in interest. If not, no matter how difficult it might be, it may be time to cancel the project Edited July 12, 2017 by rembrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium amwells Posted July 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2017 Without any update, it does become a little challenging for those of us to leave our cash effectively 'on deposit' ad finitum. There are plenty of other goodies that could use that cash, especially if the likelihood is that the project won't go ahead. What am I trying to say? Without more comms, the funding of the project may go backwards rather than forwards as people cancel their orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1023 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Obviously you failed to read Dave's post on his new update thread. Last paragraph of the first post on this page. His update page so please do not post on it. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123554-djmodels-update-page-please-do-not-post-here/&do=findComment&comment=2766856 No news = no update. Regards Really pointless post. Sometimes it's better to say nothing. Rembrow is being totally reasonable in his request for an update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Without any update, it does become a little challenging for those of us to leave our cash effectively 'on deposit' ad finitum. There are plenty of other goodies that could use that cash, especially if the likelihood is that the project won't go ahead. What am I trying to say? Without more comms, the funding of the project may go backwards rather than forwards as people cancel their orders. I certainly agree with the above, silence is not bliss on these kind of projects and for me personally, the money could pay for - say - a second Bullied. However what follows is speculation based on some analysis and I will say that this project comes on the back of the class 71. The class 71 project is not yet over. Dave still needs to sort out the issues on the Hattons exclusives first and I do feel that only once these are delivered and paid for, that only then will he have time and resources to turn to this project. I personally would not pull out just yet. What we have seen is that sales of the 71 were quite slow, the 5 crowd sourcing models were supposed to be limited editions of 200 yet some only made it into double figures. We know the Hornby one made a dent in that and doubtless the Kernow and Hatton exclusives made the project viable. There is no competition for the 74 but equally there are far fewer liveries and variants. There are certainly avenues still to explore to promote the 74. Additional retailer specials (1 of the current 5 is a Kernow exclusive), but these are hardly likely to pay up front. Additional promotion once the 71s are cleared in targeted areas - but that may come at a cost. Or a change on the selling strategy (see below). I know from working at the Signalbox in the 1990s that a major part of the market will not buy models until they can actually see and touch them. A smaller part will be happy to pre-order providing they can cancel and pay only once the item is available (and some of those will want to see and touch it). And it is a safe bet that an even smaller proportion are prepared to pay up front. Kernow's Bullied's gives us all 3 choices, there being a price difference between paying full now or pay later. Maybe Dave could do a similar thing, but this of course would mean finding resources elsewhere to finance the project. As I say, there are still options out there once the class 71 story concludes and I will give DJM a chance to conclude the 71 story first. I conclude, we are not at the point whereby this never get off the ground but equally if time shows sales do not grow and costs go up then eventually it must reach a point where it is not viable. I feel we are not at that point yet, but that could well be in a year or so time. Of course DJM will have actual figures to crunch so could determine such a point to be closer or further away. For the moment however, I will hang on and recommend the same. Edited July 13, 2017 by JSpencer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hi everyone, A quick update on the class 74 model. Rest assured things have been going on behind the scenes, just nothing i can show here yet. Design work is still going on, and have been given priority. Easy huh? nope, as the works drawings don't seem to be available, the model will be created to cad/cam standard using what i know about the locomotive, grill and vent sizes and windows (uses a class 73 side windows in places so that's easy, lol), the the rest will be extrapolated and then shown here for deliberation. Orders have picked up on the project, but i don't expect a surge until the cad/cams are shown as this always tends to push sales / pre orders for those that 'might' want one. More updates when i have them. cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Dave, many thanks for the update. I'm assuming from what you've said about progressing the design and showing cads in time, that you have confidence in the likely orders to progress to cad development, which for me is good news as cad work had been suspended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7111a Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I don't know Dave either but took delivery of my DJM Hatton's exclusive E5015. First impressions are amazing so have pre-ordered two 74's from Kernow. Really hope this project goes ahead as I remember them well as a kid when I lived near Ashford 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 I spoke to Kernow recently at the Midland Railex at the Midland Railway Centre. I commented that Kernow didn't seem to be doing much to promote the Class 74 - it is nowhere to be seen on the Kernow home page, and you have to scroll a long way down to the bottom of the limited editions page to find it. There was no sign of anything on the stand, about it, and certainly nothing to suggest people might like to pre-order. When I asked about this, I was told that "We don't want to take too much money in case it doesn't happen". Now that is a real concern. If Kernow are trying to avoid taking orders, then it definitely won't happen. To make this happen, surely Kernow should be trying to take as many orders as possible? I am given the impression that Kernow are really not behind this particular project. Perhaps Dave can have some discussions with them about this and how it might be better promoted to make it happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 27, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2017 It might simply be the case that KernowMRC is less than comfortable acting as a banker in effect holding large sums of money which might - and I stress might - require repayment in a large number of small-value transactions. Remember they remain a small business with a small number of staff and are currently in the midst of receiving a significant number of projects at much the same time (not, perhaps, as planned nor ideal from their point of view) so are already stretched. It has gone a bit quiet on the 74 front but one could argue the same for other projects too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37081LochLong Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 The problem is, if Dave needs more sales for this project to take off but if Kernow are seemingly unwilling to promote it and unwilling to take people's money, then what hope does it have? Perhaps if Kernow have taken on far too much with the Bullied, D600's, the continuous flow of Bachmann exclusive limited editions, and their Turbot wagons etc..., perhaps they should pass the handling of the project to another retailer? But the logistics of how that would be handled could be a bit of a nightmare and not one I'd like to sort out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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