sb67 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I've never seen that thread Bob, thanks for that. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 I’m going to try this on my Stranraer layout: https://www.howardscenicsupplies.co.uk/busch-7069-track-ballast-dark-grey-00-ho-230g/ I’m ordering some to try it looks quite a good colour and hopefully quite fine. Your new method looks good also and will be good to see it develop Hi.... I had seen that product previously. seemingly when I looked it was only available in Oz...? This is a steep learning curve for me too....at the moment the area looks okay, the final result will either be a 'happy smiley face' or 'squirty bum'...! Regards always... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hi Bob, I was looking around for images of prototype goods yards and found this: http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/OtherRailways/SpaldingStn.jpg It's not the right region and it's a bit earlier than your period but in some ways that's good - because the ground level would have built up even further by the 1950's... You can see the ground level undulating a bit, sleepers covered, loose material near the rails and more compacted material away from the rails where people, horse and vehicles move around. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hi Bob, I was looking around for images of prototype goods yards and found this: http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/OtherRailways/SpaldingStn.jpg It's not the right region and it's a bit earlier than your period but in some ways that's good - because the ground level would have built up even further by the 1950's... You can see the ground level undulating a bit, sleepers covered, loose material near the rails and more compacted material away from the rails where people, horse and vehicles move around. Hi Phil... That is so atmospheric....thank you..! Regards Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hi Guys..... I had said that I wasn't intending to post an image until the sand area had been 'fixed' as didn't think that there would be enough digital camera contrast .........? However working on this, there does seem to be enough to see that the area is flatter and seemingly a more appropriate base....some of the ballast has moved into the sand, but personally believe it looks okay and will act to provide a bit of 'roughage' to the ground texture as well as acting as a key to 'fix' the DAS clay....... It may be that this DAS will be a thin layer worked in section be section when fixed and set...... Will update as ( I hope you'll agree) further progress (compared to which was there previously) is being made...... Regards always....... Bob 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
88D Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hello All....... I think what I going to attempt it is - to lay some fine sand (medium) between the ballast already down..... add some to the ballast as well to provide a 'finer appearance' fix in the normal pva/ water method.... lightly use DAS clay rubbed to infill to a suitable level then weather and paint to ash / grime colour If it goes 'pear-shaped then 'hey ho...! Regards always... Bob Another option is to use fire lay putty. You can get it in different colours, and benefits from being ready-mixed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Looking good Bob :-) Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Managed to get some from them in the UK. Yes definately the hobby is one massive curve Hi.... I had seen that product previously. seemingly when I looked it was only available in Oz...? This is a steep learning curve for me too....at the moment the area looks okay, the final result will either be a 'happy smiley face' or 'squirty bum'...! Regards always... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Managed to get some from them in the UK. Yes definately the hobby is one massive curve Hi..... Would be interested in your views on it's use and look when applied....? Cheers and regards always..... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Will do a small sample patch Bob! I don’t plan to ballast my layout this time until I’ve had at least 6 months of issue free running- I always dive into ballasting and regret it as underlying shody build issues come to light Hi..... Would be interested in your views on it's use and look when applied....? Cheers and regards always..... Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Hi Guys..... This evenings posting is not one that I am relishing the results of......! Whilst pva/ water fixing the first area, the barrel plunger of the syringe broke in two, the contents jetting into the area, all over the points, cranks and tube opening, the whole lot being flooded....I will await the results when set..... if the mixture locks up the point mechanism, blocks the wire movement in the tube of fixes the cranks...I am done for perhaps....! Have left the points set in the main direction (no crossover) so if worst comes to worst.....it'll be scenic area only and just down to experience......going out for a walk in the cold night air....to get real...! Take care guys...Hey ho...! Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 These things happen to everyone, Bob. There's every chance that you'll be able to rescue the situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Bob, is it worth diluting the moving parts of the points with more plain water? It might dilute or wash away the pva, at least if you could save the points then all is not lost. Just a thought. Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 Sorry to hear about the glue mishap Bob. Stuff happens mate. Flush the point and wire in tube with water and mop it all up. The worse that can happen is the point locking up mate. To stop this I would either keep flushing with water and detergent or lift the affected point and wash it in warm soapy water and rinse it under a tap for as long as it takes. Just remember that the trick here is that PVA is water soluble and so can be softened up. You can even lift track that has been glued down long ago so a spill is easy to sort out. I know this because I've done it and all you need is a bit of patience, kitchen roll and a bit of polythene sheet and some tape. Oh and water of course. Just lift the point and wash and dry it before it all sets is the best way but if not I can talk you through sorting it out mate. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Oh no sorry to hear that Bob Hopefully you’ll be able to sort it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Hi..... Thanks for messages guys.... ......after 24hrs.....although the area is slightly damp and as yet unset hard.....the crossover point and point control remains functioning as before..... As soon as it happened and periodically I mopped up the excess with kitchen roll, the cranks and tubing seems clear and wires are moving (at the moment) okay...? Fingers crossed..... Regards always..... Bob Will update as things unfold further...... Edited January 10, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 That's good Bob, I'd periodically keep moving the points as well just to stop them sticking. Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Evening Guys..... Hope all are keeping well....? Not being one that usually becomes deterred by a setback, yes I may become a bit 'wobbly' though for a time not immediately knowing what to do to rectify matters, but never want to throw in the towel.......I always try to move on.... So leaving the minor irritation that was last evening to one side to see how that actually pans out....decided to ' go back into the water' and undertake another round of pva / water application to the t'other end of the goods yard, well away from any sensitive areas......... The techniques described here on this posting may 'old hat' to many of you good souls on here, but novices like myself, who may be scrolling through, could find the stages I'm taking this through...even if it proves be the incorrect way, useful....? At least we all know why it went wrong....! I am following basically the way it is described on Chris Nevard wonderful blog on creating an ash / cinder yard effect......apologies if this is incorrect sir....! I had initially ballasted with Woodland Scenics grey ballast and as you'll see from the previous images, it did look incorrect for the yard appearance and once I'd acknowledged that mistake decided to follow attempt the following method........... I did remove the bulk of the grey ballast (for later use on the mainlines and through the station)......and decided to use as recommended sand...... Obtained some horticultural fine silver sand from the nursery.......this was as I anticipated it would be slightly damp on opening the bag and wasn't spreadable in that state....... As described earlier this sand was dried out by 'baking it' in the oven until all the residual moisture had been driven off......the result was a very fine, dry and sieveable sand, akin to kiln dry sand used in block paving...... this sand was then spread across the yard area......mixing in with the remaining ballast, which gave the sand a bit of a more perhaps 'rougher texture' akin to the real thing than a fine surface, it may also the future DAS clay something to key on to when applied.... This is this evening's work on setting about the fixing of this sand / ballast mix...... this is the area...........goods road and sidings..........(viewed from both directions)......dampened with tap water from a mist bottle A mixture was made up of 50% pva / 50% water with a few drops of washing up liquid to break the surface tension (if i wasn't tense enough already).... This was then applied with dropper / syringe firstly to the 4' then the 6' along the entire length of the area........thus..... Will allow to set and let you know.......prior to application of DAS clay surface...... Regards always...... Bob Edited January 10, 2019 by BobM 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Will be great to see how it drys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted January 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2019 I like it Bob. I would keep some of the holes and turn them into puddles mate. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi All..... Cheers for the support.....will 'fix' another section later this evening.....will update when done.... Regards always..... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Evening Guys..... All well....? Here are a few further images of the goods yard.....the whole area has now been fixed with 50% PVA / 50% water mix, the central section merged with the upper and lower area previously 'fixed'......... ........'sensitive areas' have been given a brush over with a doping brush of the fixing mixture and the whole area will be now allowed to set.....before anything further is done...... I also have experimented with the way that the crossover and catch points operate....... without using a lever frame to throw the points......I am perhaps not going to explain this well but..... .......the wire from the point is inserted into a small bore brass rod with a brass fitting from within an electrical terminal block connector being slipped over the rod the screws then being screwed down to squash both the wire and tube which holds the connection firm......another brass connector is fitted to the other end of the rod as a handle...... .....effectively a ram rod moves the wire in the tube.....the rod is currently held steady by screws at the moment.....but I am contemplating using staples instead of the screws to allow free movement forwards and backwards..... ........it does seem to work...... Here is a video of the crossover still working with this arrangement and despite the 'mishap'.....! Update when set.... Regards always..... Bob 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted January 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2019 Do you need some lever frames Bob? I have several mate both 4's and 8's just let me know and we can sort something out. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi BobM, I just found your thread and I hope you won't mind me joining in, but I have a couple of photos that may put your mind at ease regarding ballasting around Peco pointwork - BTW provided it was the diluted PVA that squirted over your points and you mopped up the worst, you should be OK. As others have mentioned, diluting it with water and then drying should do the trick. Regarding ballasting around pointwork, this is what worked for me, YMMV: When ballasting around the points, greater care needs to be taken that the particles of granite or sand don't get trapped in the frog or between the check rails, nor behind (or under) the blade and especially between the tie-bar and the adjoining sleepers - it does happen and seems unavoidable, but it can be minimised. Using a suitable dispenser (I use an old plastic yogurt pot) tip a little of your dry ballast from the the frog towards the tie-bar. When you get towards the tie-bar, don't be in a hurry to tip too much at once a little at a time is better - or use the tip of an old tea-spoon to place small quantities to both sides of the tie-bar (but not on it, if possible ). With your finger, tamp down on the ballast and spread it between the sleepers adding a little more if needed. A small soft brush can help to place the ballast - though I did find in certain cases static electricity could cause the ballast to attach itself to the bristles - not what you want around the tie-bar. A soft brush is better, I found, as harder bristles may flick the ballast about. Repeat the procedure on both the through and diverging lines of the point - this time I found working back towards the frog and the heel (the part where the blades start) was easier than trying to do it the other way. As before, tip enough ballast between the sleepers to form small heaps and reducing the amounts as you get towards the blades. As there is little space between the stock rails and the running rails, if you have as I have phat phingers, you will need to carefully work the ballast into the small spaces with your brush. Now is the time to check that your points still move freely. If they stick then it's either ballast caught between the tie-bar and one (or both) of the adjoining sleepers or caught under one of the blades or just resting on a sleeper behind one of the blades. DON'T BLOW (ha ha) !!! Use a sharp cocktail stick to remove the offending particle. As you have already done: fine water mist + a couple drops of washing up liquid then 50:50 PVA:Water + a drop of washing up liquid. I missed what you used for flooding with PVA, but I used an eye-dropper - much more accurate especially for placing the PVA in and around the blades and tie-bar. Once you've applied the PVA and it's started to dry move the blades occasionally so that any PVA will not stick. When dry, look for any obvious particles that may have 'floated' - some will, usually in the web of the rail. Using a cocktail stick you can pick them off. If the blades are stuck, a little even pressure will usually break the bond and release any particles that may have floated underneath. If they won't close properly it'll be usually no more than a particle stuck on the back of the blade or between the tie-bar and sleeper. I saw you'd raise a point regarding infilling of the rails. On YouTube, Everard Junction showed how to created inset rails using plaster (there are probably lots of other 'how-to videos out there). He did the whole lot in one go, using a trowel to expose the rail tops. IIRC, he then ran an old wagon along the tracks as the plaster was hardening to make grooves in it. When dry, he chased the plaster out along the groove using a Dremel and small cutting wheel. I chickened out . I plastered to both outer sides of the running rails and used a trowel to smoothe along the tops. As I wanted to represent concrete, when the plaster was hardening I grooved the 'concrete' into panels. In between the rails, I dry-ballasted as normal but then added a layer of fine sand over the top to hide the sleepers and then wetted it as above. I think I should dirty my ballast more as its a pseudo-steam/diesel depôt as I happen to like your black - now that looks the part! I apologise in advance regarding the picture quality - a bit too close for the flash and too dark to use manual focussing. BTW, my 'ballast' is builders' sand dried in the oven and then a number of various domestic strainers to get the right grade - SWMBO never saw a thing! Track laying in progress Track ballasted - a small amount of 'ballast' in and around the sleepers and then fine sand over and alongside - really needs more dirtying. Pointwork ballasted plus 'concrete' fuel bay - plus section of mainline - the ballast there has had little colouring done to it. Inset rails - but just ballasted in-between. Close-up of the ballasting around the tie-bar. (The hole is for a yard-lamp). I hope the above can be of use to you in doing your pointwork. Good luck, Cheers, Philip 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Do you need some lever frames Bob? I have several mate both 4's and 8's just let me know and we can sort something out. Regards Lez. Thanks Lez......I do have couple spare for use here at home.....but thank you sincerely for the offer...... Mainly I did this experiment for two reasons firstly to see whether I could 'lash up' as an alternative to using a lever frame if needs be......and I had boxed myself in not allowing sufficient room for what I want to do to fit a frame in this spot so this serves as an alternative......seems to work thankfully and I can live with it for now..... Cheers again....regards always..... Bob Edited January 11, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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