Revolution Trains - OO - TEA Tanker

[Dungrange]

Having just read through all the topic to catch up as its been a while since I have been due to jounting around on real trains and enjoying myself. I have missed the deadline but I don't have any problem paying full whack because those wagons are lovely and I am so pleased that these wagons will be soon available in OO gauge as then I can gradually build up a rake of 10 to start with to a rake of 30 VTG blue ones as I have seen them at Barnetby at times behind a 66. 

 

But I am going to order a pack of 3 VTG blue ones to get me started and I will buy more to grow my oil train as when time and funds permit me to do so .

 

The only issue that you may have is the desire to build up gradually to a long rake.  As a crowdfunded project, the total number produced will be the number ordered at the cut-off date later this year (a date still to be announced).  I think that date will be announced as soon as Revolution Trains are content that the tooling is complete and production ready to start.  As far as I am aware there is no intention that these will start appearing in your local model shop at a later date, so whatever number you order and pay for online before production starts will be the number you end up with.  If you ultimately want 30, then you probably need to order all 30 within the next couple of months.

[newbryford]

The only issue that you may have is the desire to build up gradually to a long rake.  As a crowdfunded project, the total number produced will be the number ordered at the cut-off date later this year (a date still to be announced).  I think that date will be announced as soon as Revolution Trains are content that the tooling is complete and production ready to start.  As far as I am aware there is no intention that these will start appearing in your local model shop at a later date, so whatever number you order and pay for online before production starts will be the number you end up with.  If you ultimately want 30, then you probably need to order all 30 within the next couple of months.

 

I believe a couple of shops have ordered a quantity of the N gauge version for onward sales, so that may be an option, if they go down the same route with the 4mm model. Otherwise you may will be at the mercy of ebay profiteers.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[BritishRail60062]

I will try to get an order in for 10 wagons then. I would have thought though that considering all the investment of the tooling and that involved. I was under the impression that RT and RVT would make these wagons as their regular range as similar to what has been done with the Realtrack Models intermodal range . Ah well, I will just take the slow line to getting what I need as a rake of 30 wagons is going to set me back around £1200 for a rake and its not something I can cough up in one go . So I will just settle for 10 that will make it about £400 instead .

 

Shame that Hattons, Rails of Sheffield or Trains4U etc couldn't stock them .

[Revolution Ben]

I will try to get an order in for 10 wagons then. I would have thought though that considering all the investment of the tooling and that involved. I was under the impression that RT and RVT would make these wagons as their regular range as similar to what has been done with the Realtrack Models intermodal range . Ah well, I will just take the slow line to getting what I need as a rake of 30 wagons is going to set me back around £1200 for a rake and its not something I can cough up in one go . So I will just settle for 10 that will make it about £400 instead .

 

Shame that Hattons, Rails of Sheffield or Trains4U etc couldn't stock them .

Hi Ash,

 

Thanks for the support and the photos you posted too.

 

Crowdfunding can only work to generate the kind of sums needed to fund tooling and product development if everyone steps up together.

 

For this reason, we are very clear that we will only produce models that are ordered before the deadline.

 

Having said that, C&M Models of Carlisle and Collett's models of Exmouth have both ordered N Gauge TEAs and they, and any other retailers who want to, are very welcome to order OO TEAs too.

 

However, I would imagine their prices would be a little higher as they would need to add their own profit margin.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Shoey]

If these prove to be a big seller and these are in demand after the closing date for ordering, hopefully Revolution will produce a second batch (maybe with different running numbers) or come up with a slightly different tooling to produce other TEA wagons in different liveries, for example the Murco tanks....! That's not a hint by the way Ben, or was it..?.. ;-)

 

I've just ordered 3 of the green Freightliner ones to rebrand to VTG to run in rake with the EWS ones.

[Dungrange]

I can see the attraction of a second batch at a later date, but how would Revolution Trains know if there was sufficient demand for a second batch?  That is, a second batch would have a minimum production run just the same as any other model.  If these are a 'big seller' - ie lots of people order before the pre-production deadline, then that may indicate that everyone that wants these tank wagons has already ordered them.   It certainly doesn't indicate unmet demand for future production runs.  Demand for a second batch could perhaps be gauged from the prices that some people may be willing to pay on auction sites like E-bay, but again that can be distorted by relatively short supply.  

 

A second production run needn't be as large as the initial run, as clearly there are no development and tooling costs to be met (ie they will have been written off in the current crowdfunding phase), but there are still other, material, labour and transport costs involved with any future batches.  Personally, I can't see a second batch being viable unless a retailer is willing to cough up tens of thousands of pounds to make a second batch viable (ie they are willing to commit to taking say 1,000 models).  If there is any retailer out there willing to take that sort of risk (given that many modellers have already ordered all the wagons they are likely to buy), they would be better taking that risk now, where they can commit to a smaller number of models for those who are unaware that this is a crowdfunded model. It is those modellers who are the potential customers of those retailers who will be stocking the N gauge version.

[royaloak]

I would disagree with the post above, although I can see your reasoning!

 

In time demand will inevitably increase as new modellers decide they want some and existing modellers decide they want more, as too when there is sufficient demand? If I could answer that I could retire on the proceeds, Realtrack models are in the same situation with their 143/144s models, people want them released in different liveries but Realtrack have decided to hold off until they decide there is sufficient interest to make another batch viable.

 

If anything revOlutiOn models are in a better place because a train will consist of many wagons but only one or two DMUs.

 

I hope they do another batch in the future because I would like some more, but the funds would have to build up first.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello David & RoyalOak,

 

You both make some really good points, and remember that these are our first models so we are learning too about exactly how best to manage this process.

 

First, there will be no repeat of this batch of TEA liveries for at least two years - and probably considerably longer.  The reasoning behind this is:

 

1) Gives an incentive to step up now for the models.

2) Gives retail supporters time to shift models.

3) Gives speculative buyers time to sell their models on eBay.  Incidentally, those who order now to sell on are fine with us - their money is as good as anyone else's and it all counts to reaching the targets needed to make the models we want a reality.

 

However, there is no reason we cannot sweat some of the assets - for example with a new tank body moulding (and maybe some extra discharge parts; I haven't looked into it seriously yet) we can offer the distinctive Lindsay-Preston bitumen tanks using existing bogies, air brake gear, couplers etc.

 

In terms of gauging demand then our expressions of interest system offers us that via the website.  If, say, we need 1000 orders to justify the new bitumen tanker body tool then we can open up registrations and once enough people have signed up we can press the button, as we did with these TEAs.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Mike at C&M]

Our decision, as a model shop, to acquire some of the 'N' gauge 'TEA's has proved to be a good one.

 

It is our intention to continue working with Revolution Trains, and that will include an order for the 'OO' TEAs'.

 

The price will be slightly higher than that charged by Revolution Trains, but you have the advantage that monies are not due until the tankers are ready to send out. Many people who cannot afford to pay for all their tankers at the same time, have ordered from us, as this spreads the cash flow. Others have ordered who missed out on the original pre-ordering with Revolution.

 

If you wish to place an order with us, feel free to contact us with your requirements - an e-mail or a PM through this forum will suffice.

 

Mike Parsons

C&M Models

Carlisle

[newbryford]

 

 

However, there is no reason we cannot sweat some of the assets - for example with a new tank body moulding (and maybe some extra discharge parts; I haven't looked into it seriously yet) we can offer the distinctive Lindsay-Preston bitumen tanks using existing bogies, air brake gear, couplers etc.

 

In terms of gauging demand then our expressions of interest system offers us that via the website.  If, say, we need 1000 orders to justify the new bitumen tanker body tool then we can open up registrations and once enough people have signed up we can press the button, as we did with these TEAs.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Yes please!!!!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[slg]

I'd want at least 12 Preston dock tanks if you ever do them.

[newbryford]

Either works for me.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47222/13896288955/in/photolist-naY7yT-pEZQxz-nSvrA2-pkTsTn-pvpy4K-npQcRD-qvwWyk-kEhE5E-q3pZiw-qSMNS9-ocegep-qaZ4wH-cwgqEb-qoq1vv-reZ89y-rsYBzF-qaGcLy-qPMbCA-qXNvqi-qThXHF-9Bgseh-gXKT8a-9BgrNG-ovAfEd-eUkMdT-9Bdy9c-pWQvn8-pV9ggg-EXYJPH-opQmp1-r6KaZS-mobvkK-rpzB4e-pV6LLL-sjpysp-aQWMRp-qwPTtT-bis7Ki-q26oUu-rzu5Pa-qZnT12-rr34NJ-qEpSkb-9Bgs7Y-qGMhAb-oh225A-pQQYio-9BgsrY-nixriG-pKaf7P

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/16540494130/in/photolist-rcCmDh-D4NSsa-r3vNLp-naY7yT-pEZQxz-nSvrA2-pkTsTn-pvpy4K-npQcRD-qvwWyk-kEhE5E-q3pZiw-qSMNS9-ocegep-qaZ4wH-cwgqEb-qoq1vv-reZ89y-rsYBzF-qaGcLy-qPMbCA-qXNvqi-qThXHF-9Bgseh-gXKT8a-9BgrNG-ovAfEd-eUkMdT-9Bdy9c-pWQvn8-pV9ggg-EXYJPH-opQmp1-r6KaZS-mobvkK-rpzB4e-pV6LLL-sjpysp-aQWMRp-qwPTtT-bis7Ki-q26oUu-rzu5Pa-qZnT12-rr34NJ-qEpSkb-9Bgs7Y-qGMhAb-oh225A-pQQYio

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Shoey]

Either works for me.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47222/13896288955/in/photolist-naY7yT-pEZQxz-nSvrA2-pkTsTn-pvpy4K-npQcRD-qvwWyk-kEhE5E-q3pZiw-qSMNS9-ocegep-qaZ4wH-cwgqEb-qoq1vv-reZ89y-rsYBzF-qaGcLy-qPMbCA-qXNvqi-qThXHF-9Bgseh-gXKT8a-9BgrNG-ovAfEd-eUkMdT-9Bdy9c-pWQvn8-pV9ggg-EXYJPH-opQmp1-r6KaZS-mobvkK-rpzB4e-pV6LLL-sjpysp-aQWMRp-qwPTtT-bis7Ki-q26oUu-rzu5Pa-qZnT12-rr34NJ-qEpSkb-9Bgs7Y-qGMhAb-oh225A-pQQYio-9BgsrY-nixriG-pKaf7P

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/16540494130/in/photolist-rcCmDh-D4NSsa-r3vNLp-naY7yT-pEZQxz-nSvrA2-pkTsTn-pvpy4K-npQcRD-qvwWyk-kEhE5E-q3pZiw-qSMNS9-ocegep-qaZ4wH-cwgqEb-qoq1vv-reZ89y-rsYBzF-qaGcLy-qPMbCA-qXNvqi-qThXHF-9Bgseh-gXKT8a-9BgrNG-ovAfEd-eUkMdT-9Bdy9c-pWQvn8-pV9ggg-EXYJPH-opQmp1-r6KaZS-mobvkK-rpzB4e-pV6LLL-sjpysp-aQWMRp-qwPTtT-bis7Ki-q26oUu-rzu5Pa-qZnT12-rr34NJ-qEpSkb-9Bgs7Y-qGMhAb-oh225A-pQQYio

 

Cheers,

Mick

I'd second Mick here on this too.

 

I'd also like to see the 2 different Murco TEA's aswell, the plain red and the blue,white & red.

 

Cheers

[Revolution Ben]

I'd second Mick here on this too.

I'd also like to see the 2 different Murco TEA's aswell, the plain red and the blue,white & red.

Cheers

Hi Shoey,

 

Mike and I are now pausing to get some models here and delivered to our existing supporters.

 

Once that's done, we can think about moving forward.

 

The bitumen tanks are a logical development as we can use much of the existing tooling. They are also attractive and significantly different. The only real issue is that as far as I am aware they are only used on one flow, and for some people that might be a turn-off.

 

Having said that, the simple way is to open expressions of interest and see whether there is enough appetite or not. As we can re-use some mouldings, tooling costs will be less, meaning the minimum viable order quantity is reduced.

 

The other tanks require completely new tooling, plus we would want a bit of variety first!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[matt-b]

There is a write up on the real VTG TEA wagons in the Rail Express magazine if anyone's interested.

Edited August 21, 2016 by matt-b

[slg]

I'd want at least 12 Preston dock tanks if you ever do them.

Make that 14 after filming them at skew bridge this morning in the rain. 

Plus I think I'm going to have to get a DJ model of 92032 in GBRf livery to haul my Greenergy tanks 

Edited August 22, 2016 by slg

[sc2016]

I wonder how well these are doing in turns of orders hopefully well. 

 

Manage to order 5 of these in the end when it was early bird price which is more than what i said i would get when this project was that the expressions of interest stage.

 

Samuel.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Samuel,

 

Orders are respectable.  Rapido have already had some test mouldings (see p5 of the thread) but we are now awaiting fully assembled test models with etched parts, bogies, wheels etc fitted so we can run and test them in operation.

 

Once this is done we will post photographs, and I am hoping we will be able to show these soon.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Dungrange]

Manage to order 5 of these in the end when it was early bird price which is more than what i said i would get when this project was that the expressions of interest stage.

 

Ordering more that you originally expressed an interest in is fine: the problem would be if it was the other way around.  Expressions of interest had closed before I was aware of the project, so I effectively expressed an interest in zero and then ordered nine!  As others have indicated, it would have been nice to be able to purchase these over time and build up a rake over a couple of years, but I accept that isn't the way crowdfunding works.  I suppose the only thing that concerns me about the 'expression of interest' is the risk that the number of expressions is too low for a project to be viable, simply because some of those who might participate are not aware of the potential venture.

 

Anyway, it may be a while before we see them, but it will take me much longer to have a layout to run them on! 

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi David,

 

Yes, there are certainly some shortcomings with the methodology and for us it is definitely a learning process.

 

And there is certainly an issue of credibility here: we are asking people to hand over significant amounts of cash "on a promise" but we feel that moving forward, and as more and more people become aware of us and see the models delivered, we will enhance our standing as a safe bet.

 

The OO TEAs are definitely going ahead - you'll see on p5 of this thread the first shots, so the tooling is largely complete, and that is by far the biggest cost in development. In comparison, things like CAD design etc are peanuts!!

 

I think as Mike and I go forward we will hope to improve the methodology, and while the best deals will always be for those (rightly) who step forward to make the models happen, retailers are pre-ordering as well to offer post production availability.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[No Decorum]

Ben,

 

I’ll admit that your standing as a BBC correspondent carried a little weight when it came to parting with cash (sorry, Mike), not that the BBC is likely to finish the project if anything goes wrong.

 

Nervousness at your end is matched by nervousness at this end (over many years, I have been stung) but, as you say, once you have a track record, things may start to develop.

 

All praise to the young lady from Carlisle for stepping forward and ordering some.

 

Regards,

 

ND.

[Dungrange]

I’ll admit that your standing as a BBC correspondent carried a little weight when it came to parting with cash 

 

I didn't know that, although it wouldn't have made any difference to my decision.  In my case it's a mixture of blind faith and positive feedback from others on RMWeb about both Revolution Trains and Rapido, who are more 'in the know' than I am.  I'm fortunate to be in the position to be able to write off the loss of a couple of hundred pounds to experience, if the project was to fail (which I'm reasonably confident it won't - especially with tooling complete), but I am sure there are many others who can't take the risk and potentially miss out as a result. I'm therefore happy to hear that at least one retailer has also decided to order some for after sales.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Dungrange

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence - in my honest assessment, working with Rapido is perhaps the single factor that has been most responsible for our progress so far.

 

I don't think anyone need be in any doubt about their enthusiasm and determination to deliver the best models they can for us, or anyone else come to that.  In my view - from their own APT-E and US outline products to our TEAs and Pendolino - it is evident that cutting corners, under-specifying or just coming up short are not in their lexicon.

 

They only issue they have had is around capacity, and now they are bringing another factory onstream to cope.  

 

We are expecting the Pendolino to come in this autumn which, while longer than hoped due to issues with the couplers, will still be well inside two years - the laser scan was done in Feb 2015.   And we are expecting the TEAs to go from announcement to delivery in less than 18 months.  The OO TEAs should go into production this autumn too.

 

I admit I am very much looking forward to working with them on more models going forward, though Mike and I are both naturally cautious and wary of getting a reputation for over-announcing or land-grabbing so we have held back announcing more plans for powered models until we (and by extension Rapido) have actually delivered something to our supporters.

 

We certainly appreciate that the crowd-funding ethos is not for everyone, and both Mike and I are very aware of the trust that is placed in us.  We know people think long and hard about the project and about the parties involved before handing over their cash.  And rightly so.  

 

But we also believe that with the right manufacturer and appropriate due diligence it offers an amazing opportunity for we modellers to make things happen for ourselves, and that as each project is delivered more and more people will have the confidence to join us.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Ben A

[No Decorum]

I wonder if those powered models will be 00. I hope so,

[Revolution Ben]

Hi ND,

 

MIke and I are both N Gaugers, primarily, and I think we would want to see how the OO TEAs are received (and what we can learn from them) before committing to a powered OO model.

 

It's also the case that we will be focused primarily on filling obvious gaps in N, and that may often be where there is a decent OO model already and so unlikely to be interest from Farish or Dapol, such as with the Pendolino or KFA flat wagon.

 

Having said that, as we have shown with the tankers, where we have done the research and obtained appropriate livery permissions then we're certainly open to the possibility, and when OO modellers step up, as they have, then everyone can win.

 

The next obvious potential OO model would be the 321. We are expecting to have the N gauge CADs by Warley (or maybe before) so if you're interested, or think they look good, let us know and we will look at up-scaling it, though generating sufficient interest may be tricky as I believe there is a decent kit in OO.

 

We do think the Pendolinos will be here, or at least in full production, by Warley and that is where we are anticipating announcing our next powered model in N. We have done preparatory work on a couple of candidates, and have secured agreement from the manufacturers, but exactly which one we choose isn't yet finalised and depends on numerous factors. And of course whatever we offer will only succeed if enough people sign up!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Ben A