Sutton's Locomotive Works class 24

[Roy Langridge]

And now B, British Railways two-tone green syp is successful.

 

H at 77%    - come on people - get voting,

 

Roy

[Nick G]

The latest...

[Shroomy]

Oh well B ordered didn't even know I needed another one lol

[Finsbury]

Order placed, sound and supercap, em wheelset, roll on June/July. Smashing bloke on the 'phone, I even resisted the urge to wishlist!

 

Bernie

[McC]

Order placed  

[Hugh Flynn]

Hi Nick

Without trawling through lots of post how long after 100% successful will it be before model is delivered?

On a personal point looking forward to H.

 

Hugh

[Indomitable026]

_{Currently building a representation of Inverness depot in P4, if 'H' comes out I'll have to back date, no question.}

[Swindon 123]

Hi Nick

Without trawling through lots of post how long after 100% successful will it be before model is delivered?

On a personal point looking forward to H.

 

Hugh

Having spoken to Philip yesterday, it sounds like summer 2018 for delivery of the two locos.

 

Paul J.

[Shroomy]

Having spoken to Philip yesterday, it sounds like summer 2018 for delivery of the two locos.

 

Paul J.

July is the estimated arrival according to the glamorous Jamie Edited December 9, 2017 by Shroomy

[Regularity]

_{Currently building a representation of Inverness depot in P4, if 'H' comes out I'll have to back date, no question.}

I think that’s a “when”, Damian, and not an “If”...

[Regularity]

We hope to have an update on the standings of other versions sometime

Will you be correcting the typo in the flyer whilst you do that?

(It’s a question of getting the fine details right, you see.)

Edited December 9, 2017 by Regularity

[Indomitable026]

I think that’s a “when”, Damian, and not an “If”...

Which I'm turn will massively outstage the class 26 and 27s I have.

[Regularity]

Which I'm turn will massively outstage the class 26 and 27s I have.

Provides a nice modelling challenge for you, to bring the level and finesse of detail up to the same standard.

 

Finescale is all about raising the bar, my friend.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Regularity

[Indomitable026]

Provides a nice modelling challenge for you, to bring the level and finesse of detail up to the same standard.

 

Finescale is all about raising the bar, my friend.

 

The point is I shouldn't have to.

[Regularity]

The point is I shouldn't have to.

Then it wouldn’t be modelling, just collecting and making a nice setting.

[The Ghost of IKB]

The point is I shouldn't have to.

That is a weird statement. So the Heljan (presumably) 26 and 27 you run,(which when new was well received) a design that must be getting on for what 8 years old, shouldnt need any further work to match the detail and quality a brand new design?

How does that work then?

Either new models dont improve standards or old models magically improve themselves to match new ones. Perhaps the 4mm railway elves come in the night and update them?

[Indomitable026]

Then it wouldn’t be modelling, just collecting and making a nice setting.

 

Modelling?

 

Putting right something the manufacturer got wrong?

 

You're not a finescale modeller if you don't put these issues right?

 

We've put up with far too many compromises in this country - still.

 

At least Sutton has started to address this at last and bring the UK in line with others.

[Indomitable026]

That is a weird statement. So the Heljan (presumably) 26 and 27 you run,(which when new was well received) a design that must be getting on for what 8 years old, shouldnt need any further work to match the detail and quality a brand new design?

How does that work then?

Either new models dont improve standards or old models magically improve themselves to match new ones. Perhaps the 4mm railway elves come in the night and update them?

 

The Sutton 24s are at the pinnacle of modelling, the 26/27s were most certainly not when the came out.

 

My elves are sweating now.

[25901]

The 26/27 are wrong in many way but the Sutton 24 is spot on. I stand in a better position that a lot of people due to being a co owner of one of the real things. The one thing I will state is a great big thank you to somebody who has gambled on giving us a fantastic class 24 and hopefully a 25, when they could of kept there money in the bank and let us keep playing with the Bachmann offering

Edited December 9, 2017 by 25901

[Regularity]

Modelling?

 

Putting right something the manufacturer got wrong?

 

You're not a finescale modeller if you don't put these issues right?

 

We've put up with far too many compromises in this country - still.

 

At least Sutton has started to address this at last and bring the UK in line with others.

I get the point that manufacturers could make more effort to get things right, and that some things really shouldn’t need to be corrected, and could they at least get the. Basic proportions right, but we are where we are: some things could still be improved.

 

And in those circumstances, not putting it right isn’t finescale modelling. Just adopting a correct to scale track gauge does not make a model finescale.

 

If you can, get hold of a copy of the January 1975 Railway Modeller, and read Cyril Freezer’s opening part of “Proprietary to Scale”.

 

He writes eloquently on the meaning of the word “scale” in the context of toy manufacturers 100 years or so ago. He laments that true word “authentic” was not used instead as an adjective to “model”. And he makes the point that “fine scale” is meaningless unless you interpret the word “scale” in the manner he does: “not a toy”. In this context, “finescale” means “closer/greater/finer authenticity”.

 

The Scalefour Society used to have a slogan, “It’s not all about wheels and track” and that is as true now as it was then.

 

The most convincing 4mm scale model I have seen of a class 26 was/is Steve Flint’s remarkable conversion of a Lima class 33, running on Kyle of Tongue. And that was 00.

 

Anyway, I didn’t say it wasn’t finescale.

I said it was not modelling, merely creating a setting for a collection of bought trains.

 

It is a reducio ad absurdum point about when does buying cease to be be part of modelling, and replaces it?

 

If you are not prepared to improve something which falls short, then you have five other choices:

Go without;

Only buy things which are already perfect, so you will mostly be going without;

Pay someone else to do it for you;

Wait until a manufacturer does this; or

Follow Phil Sutton’s example, and make a significant investment in getting them produced.

 

Back to the main point. You are clearly a talented and capable modeller, and your latest project is to P4 standards, so why do you think that, given the current lack of a perfect P4 ready class 26, you can’t or won’t do a bit of modelling to get things up to standard?

 

Not having a go at you. I am genuinely surprised and perplexed by your reaction to the suggestion that having a Sutton class 24 provides a challenging target for detailing something else. I am obviously not the only person who was surprised.

[Regularity]

The Sutton 24s are at the pinnacle of modelling, the 26/27s were most certainly not when the came out.

 

No. They are not at the pinnacle of modelling. They are at the pinnacle of production for 4mm scale diesels.

 

There is nothing wrong with that, but buying something which is frankly as good as it gets is not modelling. It is purchasing.

[Indomitable026]

I get the point that manufacturers could make more effort to get things right, and that some things really shouldn’t need to be corrected, and could they at least get the. Basic proportions right, but we are where we are: some things could still be improved.

 

And in those circumstances, not putting it right isn’t finescale modelling. Just adopting a correct to scale track gauge does not make a model finescale.

 

If you can, get hold of a copy of the January 1975 Railway Modeller, and read Cyril Freezer’s opening part of “Proprietary to Scale”.

 

He writes eloquently on the meaning of the word “scale” in the context of toy manufacturers 100 years or so ago. He laments that true word “authentic” was not used instead as an adjective to “model”. And he makes the point that “fine scale” is meaningless unless you interpret the word “scale” in the manner he does: “not a toy”. In this context, “finescale” means “closer/greater/finer authenticity”.

 

The Scalefour Society used to have a slogan, “It’s not all about wheels and track” and that is as true now as it was then.

 

The most convincing 4mm scale model I have seen of a class 26 was/is Steve Flint’s remarkable conversion of a Lima class 33, running on Kyle of Tongue. And that was 00.

 

Anyway, I didn’t say it wasn’t finescale.

I said it was not modelling, merely creating a setting for a collection of bought trains.

 

It is a reducio ad absurdum point about when does buying cease to be be part of modelling, and replaces it?

 

If you are not prepared to improve something which falls short, then you have five other choices:

Go without;

Only buy things which are already perfect, so you will mostly be going without;

Pay someone else to do it for you;

Wait until a manufacturer does this; or

Follow Phil Sutton’s example, and make a significant investment in getting them produced.

 

Back to the main point. You are clearly a talented and capable modeller, and your latest project is to P4 standards, so why do you think that, given the current lack of a perfect P4 ready class 26, you can’t or won’t do a bit of modelling to get things up to standard?

 

Not having a go at you. I am genuinely surprised and perplexed by your reaction to the suggestion that having a Sutton class 24 provides a challenging target for detailing something else. I am obviously not the only person who was surprised.

 

Not having a go at me?

 

I'm perplexed why we still have sort things out to get them up to standard.

 

I've spent too many years doing this and am frankly bored and frustrated by it.

 

Lets move on.

[Regularity]

Not having a go at me?

 

No. You are reading that into it.

I'm perplexed why we still have sort things out to get them up to standard.

I've spent too many years doing this and am frankly bored and frustrated by it.

 

Because the majority of people aren’t prepared to pay for the true cost of this.

I am frankly amazed that the core 00 model is only £170, and that you can get one with P4 or EM wheels fitted, and a simply superb Zimo DCC module including a super cap, for not much more than £300.

 

As for cheaper models, my personal attitude is that as long as it is dimensionally accurate, the rest can be dealt with and this is what makes it a “personal” model and different from all the others.

 

I will recount a bizarre conversation I had with someone at my then local club in the early 90s, who was complaining about the poor running quality of his collection of 30 Lima class 37s compared to their continental outline offerings. I asked him much they cost. The 37s were about 20 quid, but the continental ones cost about 30 quid.

“Well, there’s your issue,” I said. “You can have 20 well running models with a central can motor and gear towers at £30 each, or you can have 30 models based around the terrible pancake motor at £20 each. Same total of £600.”

“But I want 30 engines at £20 each, with the continental-specification central can and gear towers.”

 

There’s nothing in the world I could say to that, as if someone lives in cloud cuckoo land, the most you can do get them to see a psychiatrist, so that the latter can collect the rent.

Lets move on.

Quite, but I now understand your point of view: you can make these changes, you’ve just got fed up with doing them - and you are obviously prepared to pay more for a good model.

It’s not like you’ve never tried, and never succeeded.

[Andrew F]

For many modellers, modifications to make things more realistic is enjoyable and personalises a loco or piece of stock. I always think as an enthusiast, I must do better than the mass production in China.

 

There's so many facets that make up a realistic model, even if the base model is as good as the SLW 24. There's the paint finish and body panel rippling to make a model really look like it was built in a works rather than just being a nice plastic model. Sometimes these points are forgotten about as absolute detail accuracy take president.

[Nick G]

Now I am building a layout of Maentwrog Road in North Wales I can finally show one of my SLW 24's in it's natural habitat. Just need some 25's now Philip!