Folkestone-Dover sea wall wash-out

[dp123]

I wonder if they're looking at operating spoil/ballast trains on a more frequent basis, possibly using the shorter track to stable one rake in, whilst the other is moved. What I would envisage is:-

First working of the day:-

Lead loco detaches at Dover Priory, then proceeds to rake of wagons on the 'long' siding, couples to them, and returns to DVP.

Second loco then propels new rake of wagons to 'long siding', remaining attached to them until loading/unloading is completed, then either taking them back to Hoo or placing them on the 'short' siding. 

Alternatively, the 'short' siding could be used to stable a 'buffer rake' of either empty wagons, or wagons bearing materials.

Presumably, with the current method of working, the second loco isn't crewed, and simply runs 'dead-in-train', adding nothing to the power and 120t + to the load?

 

There isn't the capacity at Dover Priory to continuously shunt ballasts and locos around during the day, the conductor rail is still live right through to the railhead and so that's a no-no for groundstaff working in the tunnels, as they'd inevitably have to do - uncoupling those locos can't be done in the platform as the trains required to deliver the quantities required to site are longer than the station, plus Priory Tunnel is still open to traffic. There is a slight ramp up in ballast trains to the site in the next couple of weeks, but the situation on the ground at the moment doesn't require a continuous conveyor belt of trains delivering material yet.

The trailing loco is essential because there's nowhere to run round once the train is in the worksite. Again, you can't propel that distance back to Dover as the groundstaff will be walking the train back through a tunnel still live at 3-4mph, and when the train does get to Priory, it'll foul the whole station up while we muck around with running the engine round (which isn't realistic, the trains will foul the S&C required). More frequent, shorter trains aren't an option in the short-term because there simply isn't the traction/drivers/wagons available to commit - plus as mentioned, the worksite isn't in a position to accept continuous delivery. Scraping together two locos, twenty boxes and a couple drivers with a weeks notice for the shift is hard enough.

 

The trailing loco isn't crewed or powering because it doesn't need to be. The train weights are well within the capacity of the traction available to us (including the dead engine). No sense burning diesel and wasting scarce daytime ballast drivers if they're not required, plus TnT saves on scarce groundstaff resources - groundstaff will only be required to brake test and depart the train.

 

One of my key principles of railway logistics (learned the hard way!): KISS!

[Edwin_m]

I think it was an article in the Rail Engineer magazine which said that when a bridge replacement near Purley was cancelled due to high winds, the workforce was diverted to Dover. 

 

Does the new buffer stop mean EMUs can come through the tunnel and reverse back into a different platform via the scissors crossovers? 

[David Todd]

I think it was an article in the Rail Engineer magazine which said that when a bridge replacement near Purley was cancelled due to high winds, the workforce was diverted to Dover.

 

Does the new buffer stop mean EMUs can come through the tunnel and reverse back into a different platform via the scissors crossovers?

 

Morning Edwin,

Thanks for your input.

There is no need for Emus to use the scissors, even though there is a limit of shunt signal at the north portal of Harbour tunnel and just before the approach to the scissors,northbound.

Beyond Dover Priory station and Priory tunnel (north), there are two sets of trailing point's,which are used to put Emus in the respective platforms.

 

Unfortunately , you cannot see them in this screenshot,because of the trees.

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by David Todd

[David Todd]

I think it was an article in the Rail Engineer magazine which said that when a bridge replacement near Purley was cancelled due to high winds, the workforce was diverted to Dover.

 

Does the new buffer stop mean EMUs can come through the tunnel and reverse back into a different platform via the scissors crossovers?

 

Here are the signals that control, Dover Priory South.

 

1. The far right,is permanently red, no exit, from platform 3. As this would be "wrong line working".

2. The signal,adjacent, allows trains to exit platform 2. then crossing the scissors, access the up line to Ashford onto London.

3. Far left signal, allows trains to exit platform 1. To the up line, to Ashford and London

 

On the tracks,there are two flashing reds,one on the up,one on the down, at the south toes of the scissors and north portal of Harbour tunnel.

At this point, Network Rail, have possession of the track,or what is left of it.

 

Dover Priory,South.

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by David Todd

[David Todd]

On my model layout, of Dover Proiry, these are the signals that control the north exit from the station.

 

I have yet to complete, the south exit signals.

[The Stationmaster]

The buffer stops have appeared as the worksite is now considered a "high street environment" (hate that term) and as such, the track leading to it has been reclassified as a terminal siding to remove the worksite from T3 operating arrangements. Effectively, the railway between Dover Priory and Folkestone East is now no longer part of the national network. There are special operating arrangements to move engineering trains from Dover through Harbour Tunnel to the siding, which is protected by the signals at Dover and a set of derailers at the Folkestone end of the tunnel, and terminates at the buffer stops. The stops can be lifted to allow trains into the worksite. The conductor rail is still live as far as the siding end, and the siding has been christened the Shakespeare Railhead. Buffer stops have also been placed at Martello Tunnel at the Folkestone end, clear of Folkestone East. There's no requirement for derailers at this end as there's no requirement to move or stable engineering trains from Folkestone.

 

A similar arrangement of buffer stop protection exists at London Bridge for the Thameslink worksite, another section severed long term from the operational railway.

Yes - what it does is place the worksite under a totally different set of Regulations (the construction industry CDM Regulations) which makes it far simpler for the contractors as there is then no need for any sort of rail safety training for their people nor any need to apply railway possession Rules (as dp123 said).  This means that as far as any contractors are concerned they are working and briefing their staff etc just as they would on any construction site (and as a matter of passing interest it also means the Railway Inspectorate technically have no jurisdiction or enforcement powers on the site although the HSE do).

[David Todd]

Today @ Dover Priory, south.

Some work ,at the scissors this morning about 1100hrs.

 

P1280072 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280067 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280039 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

Took a very steep short cut from Priory up to North Military Hill, the on to the tops, sought shelter,out of the wind in the ex WW ll, St.Martins Gun Battery.

 

From this vantage point at midday,

 

The overtopping at Western Docks and The central Breakwater.

 

Am just under a mile away, these are zoomed.

 

P1280146 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280159 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280119 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280118 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

 

 

[David Todd]

It's ok, one of our's, 

 

P1280175 by ferriesdover, on Flickr 

 

A sharp right hand spin o the wheel, apply the handbrake, for a few seconds, release, Be carried with wind and tide,Left hand down the wheel, power up.

 

and your in.

 

P1280181 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280193 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

[Siberian Snooper]

The weather here is bad enough, I certainly wouldn't want to be out and about up there.

[Fat Controller]

The weather here is bad enough, I certainly wouldn't want to be out and about up there.

I wouldn't want to be down on the worksite, either- when the wind's blowing as it is today, it causes a lot of shingle to be blown in with the spray. I know of someone who left her car on the seafront at Sandgate, and had all the paint blasted off the seaward side.

[David Todd]

Can be a tad worrying, to the travelling public, when you hit a pothole, en route.

 

[lmsforever]

The last photo is one of the reasons why I don't go to sea anymore it was bad enough coming back from Spain via the Bay of Biscay at night during the most horrible storm but it was okay by breakfast !

[jamie92208]

Those remind me of my last trip in November. After waiting outside for an hour we came in turned left then started to go stern first into the berth, unfortunately we were being blown onto the ends of the next two piers and a tug had to nip round our bows and push us back towards the central breakwater before we could get safely into the berth.

 

Jamie

[The Stationmaster]

Can be a tad worrying, to the travelling public, when you hit a pothole, en route.

 

image.jpeg

Looks about the same sort of Sea State we had in the Barents Sea rounding the top end of Norway two years back - lovely motion to lull you off to sleep down on our deck, and after an evening of quick service in the restaurant as there seemed to be quite a few passengers missing for some inexplicable reason so more reindeer stew to go round too.

Edited February 8, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[David Todd]

I think it was an article in the Rail Engineer magazine which said that when a bridge replacement near Purley was cancelled due to high winds, the workforce was diverted to Dover. 

 

Does the new buffer stop mean EMUs can come through the tunnel and reverse back into a different platform via the scissors crossovers? 

 

 

Ok, I think "we" forgot to mention, that Dover Priory,is wired for sound  signaled,as, "a reversible" station.

 

Today, these 3 signals, control the northern exits,from the 3 platforms.

I am standing on platform 1.

 

P1280029 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

In this picture, i am on platform 1, just beyond the tunnel, a set of trailing points, 

Departing from 1, pass the signal (on green), then cross the trailers, to the up line, for Canterbury, Medway Towns and London.

 

P1280034 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

[David Todd]

Those remind me of my last trip in November. After waiting outside for an hour we came in turned left then started to go stern first into the berth, unfortunately we were being blown onto the ends of the next two piers and a tug had to nip round our bows and push us back towards the central breakwater before we could get safely into the berth.Jamie

That should teach you, not to hire, "a self-drive".

[jamie92208]

That should teach you, not to hire, "a self-drive".

Unfortunately it was DFDS.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

Local MP

 

Charlie Elphicke added 3 new photos.
February 5 at 11:22am ·
Visiting the Dover sea wall Friday last,ahead of Monday's(today) task force meeting. It's increasingly clear this will be a very big job.

The rotten timber in the photo is the remains of the old timber viaduct.

Not a lot left of that now.

Edited February 8, 2016 by David Todd

[David Todd]

 

 

Ok, I think "we" forgot to mention, that Dover Priory,is wired for sound  signaled,as, "a reversible" station.

 

Today, these 3 signals, control the northern exits,from the 3 platforms.

I am standing on platform 1.

 

P1280029 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

In this picture, i am on platform 1, just beyond the tunnel, a set of trailing points, 

Departing from 1, pass the signal (on green), then cross the trailers, to the up line, for Canterbury, Medway Towns and London.

 

P1280034 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

Take this scenario, an Electrostar,is approaching DP. from London,via Medway Towns and Canterbury.

He has been switched,to the up line, from the down line,  by the second set of trailing points, further north, of the set of trailers I mentioned earlier.

So,his last part of his approach to DP,is done on the Up line,

 

P1280030 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

He is then,switched by the RH point,in front of Priory tunnel,into,platform 3. He cannot exit,South from this platform,because of the permanent red signal,at the south end of the platform.

 

P1280031 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280032 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

This Electrostar is basically, a shuttle, t'ween DP and London.

So,on departure, will leave platform 3, join the up line and carry on its journey,to London.

 

The same would apply, if he was put into platform 2. or even platform 1.

if he was placed in platform 1, his approach to DP,would be to come in on the down line,crossing no trailers at all.

Edited February 9, 2016 by David Todd

[David Todd]

Morning, The next set of photos were taken yesterday,in the high winds.

I was sheltering in the WW ll, St. Martins Gun Battery,atop of Military Hill,a local panoramic viewing point.

 

 

 

This gives you the view of the road viaduct,spanning the 10.chain curve,to the repair site, which,I should be on later this morning,around 1115 hrs.

 

Sorry about quality of photos, my auto white balance,appears to be malfunctioning.

 

P1280236 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280211 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

The (old) Dover Harbour station, Grade ll listed,now privately owned, by a local businessman. undergoing renovations.

 

P1280206 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

Between the viaduct and the blue portacabins, sit's an electrical sub station,solely dedicated, to feeding the main up and down lines.

 

P1280208 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

The blue old portacabins,have been empty for year's, rumours locally, say this was "Ar'fur Dailey's",Dover branch.

The road helix,leading up to Megger and P&O Ferries head offices.

 

The newly installed buffer stops,are just above the concrete lorry.

 

P1280205 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280199 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

 

P1280196 by ferriesdover, on Flickr

Edited February 9, 2016 by David Todd

[Siberian Snooper]

I wouldn't want too be at sea in that, if I could help it.

 

Thanks for braving the elements.

[jamie92208]

Thanks for all the pictures Dave. Going off topic for a short time you may be able to answer a question. You have shown a lot of pictures of the 10 chain curve. I have memories, which may or may not be reliable, of reading about some stability tests that were done by the APT development team that involved pushing a vehicle round a sharp curve at increasing speeds until it overturned. I seem to recall that the curve in question was in the Dover area and that the tests were to determine how much cant deficiency could be tolerated by the APT. Was the curve in question that 10 chain curve.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

Thanks for all the pictures Dave. Going off topic for a short time you may be able to answer a question. You have shown a lot of pictures of the 10 chain curve. I have memories, which may or may not be reliable, of reading about some stability tests that were done by the APT development team that involved pushing a vehicle round a sharp curve at increasing speeds until it overturned. I seem to recall that the curve in question was in the Dover area and that the tests were to determine how much cant deficiency could be tolerated by the APT. Was the curve in question that 10 chain curve.Jamie

Ah, that test, was done on the Kearsney loop. I have not read that is was an Apt,though.

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3626260

Edited February 9, 2016 by David Todd

[bigherb]

It's changed a bit from the mid eighties taken from St Martins as well.

[jamie92208]

Ah, that test, was done on the Kearsney loop. I have not read that is was an Apt,though.

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3626260

Thanks for that David. From memory it was some sort of experimental vehicle that became the basis for the APT ooaches. I think it was of skeleton construction with weights to get the centre of gravity on the right place.

 

Jamie