David Todd Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2016 At least nowhere gets cut off from the rest of the rail network by this. Apart from Folkestone Warren Halt; unadvertised but arguably still a stopping place I believe and existing for the use of those with business on the Warren such as railway maintenance workers. Looking only at the publicly-available pictures it appears to me that not all of the cracks in the sea wall are recent; some appear to be old though may have been aggravated in the recent weather. The entire Dover - folkestone section of line has always been an unstable wilderness but is that alone reason to cut the rail line permanently between two of Kent's major towns and its two remaining Channel ports? Ultimately it will become unsustainable but so, eventually, will Dawlish and some other vulnerable sections of line. I see millions being pumped into the retention of the socially-desirable but far-from-busy Cambrian and Cumbrian coast lines. How much does it take to keep the line open at Saltcoats? Or even Dovey Junction which floods on every decent high tide. Dover - Folkestone is a vital link and one which the road over the cliffs via Capel-le-Ferne isn't capable of handling permanently. If there were a significant geological event that road could be lost as well leaving only the minor Alkham Valley road intact. This time around I would expect major repairs to be undertaken in the manner of Dawlish and as quickly as possible. Some of the same expertise would surely be called upon. The cliffs are unstable but nothing man can do will alter the geology fundamentally. Even encasing them in concrete won't hold back the inevitable for all time. Britain's soft-rock coastlines are eroding. We can perhaps buy enough time to pass the problem on to a future generation ......... I don't know the local travel patterns around the Kent Coast but if the engineers suggest the entire line is already too far gone to repair, or that a permanent solution is needed within a few years, then perhaps it's time to build that curve at Canterbury or reopen the Kearsney Loop (though isn't that built over now?) to provide medium-term alternative options. Anyone fancy reopening Folkestone Harbour and Dover Marine and having a Sealink-style ferry connection between the two? Meanwhile SouthEastern has suspended High Speed supplementary fares from and to stations currently devoid of a direct high speed service. Ordinary fares may be used even if connecting into or our of high speed trains elsewhere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 It does rather seem that there are several parallels with the Dawlish situation of early 2014 - Sea Wall damaged, unstable cliffs and a halt nearby with the name 'Warren' in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Apart from Folkestone Warren Halt; unadvertised but arguably still a stopping place I believe and existing for the use of those with business on the Warren such as railway maintenance workers. Looking only at the publicly-available pictures it appears to me that not all of the cracks in the sea wall are recent; some appear to be old though may have been aggravated in the recent weather. The entire Dover - folkestone section of line has always been an unstable wilderness but is that alone reason to cut the rail line permanently between two of Kent's major towns and its two remaining Channel ports? Ultimately it will become unsustainable but so, eventually, will Dawlish and some other vulnerable sections of line. I see millions being pumped into the retention of the socially-desirable but far-from-busy Cambrian and Cumbrian coast lines. How much does it take to keep the line open at Saltcoats? Or even Dovey Junction which floods on every decent high tide. Dover - Folkestone is a vital link and one which the road over the cliffs via Capel-le-Ferne isn't capable of handling permanently. If there were a significant geological event that road could be lost as well leaving only the minor Alkham Valley road intact. This time around I would expect major repairs to be undertaken in the manner of Dawlish and as quickly as possible. Some of the same expertise would surely be called upon. The cliffs are unstable but nothing man can do will alter the geology fundamentally. Even encasing them in concrete won't hold back the inevitable for all time. Britain's soft-rock coastlines are eroding. We can perhaps buy enough time to pass the problem on to a future generation ......... I don't know the local travel patterns around the Kent Coast but if the engineers suggest the entire line is already too far gone to repair, or that a permanent solution is needed within a few years, then perhaps it's time to build that curve at Canterbury or reopen the Kearsney Loop (though isn't that built over now?) to provide medium-term alternative options. Anyone fancy reopening Folkestone Harbour and Dover Marine and having a Sealink-style ferry connection between the two? Meanwhile SouthEastern has suspended High Speed supplementary fares from and to stations currently devoid of a direct high speed service. Ordinary fares may be used even if connecting into or our of high speed trains elsewhere. Nothing left at Folkestone Warren, barring some odd platform supports; the same goes for Shakespeare Staff Halt; both were long gone when we moved down here in 1991. Only Dover still has active port facilities, and the amount of rail passengers transferring to and from the port is minimal; the students and other youngsters who were using the service when we moved down here now use the various coach services that have developed over the years, whilst the older and more affluent clientele use Eurostar. The main passenger flows now are:- School and further-education students travelling between the various secondary and tertiary facilities along the route. Commuters to London- this traffic has grown a lot over the last few years. A lot of people have moved to the area since HS1 opened, taking advantage of the relatively low house prices and the journey time of just over an hour from Dover. Language students to the large number of establishments around both Folkestone and Dover. The A 20 now runs from near Caesar's Camp at Folkestone to Dover, partially via the western end of the Alkham Valley,then cutting towards a point between Capel and Farthingloe. It no longer goes through Capel itself. The Kearney chord would serve no purpose; Deal and Sandwich traffic for London via HS1 would be quicker running via the curve at Minster, thence via Canterbury West. A new south- west curve at Canterbury would be nice, though I'll not hold my breath for it. Regarding the wall itself; I suspect a lot of the cracks were concealed behind sand and shingle, as it looks that the bottom step of the footbridge are some distance above the beach levels in David's photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It does rather seem that there are several parallels with the Dawlish situation of early 2014 - Sea Wall damaged, unstable cliffs and a halt nearby with the name 'Warren' in it. Although operationally, perhaps less of a parallel - no stock stranded and cut off from heavy maintenance, no major cities "cut off from civilisation", and every station in the area still has trains to London, albeit with a change at Dover or Ramsgate for Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal and Sandwich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 Maybe the London Chatham and Dover Railway should have built the Alkham Valley Line between Kearnsey and Folkestone proposed back in 1844 something I had not heard about until I purchased the recently published book on the Elham Valley Railway by Brian Hart (Wild Swan Books ISBN 978 0 953877 12 6). From what I can understand the line would have entered Folkestone from the Hawkinge direction burrow under the SER line somewhere near where Folkestone Central is and the hang a sharp right (towards Sandgate) to end up with a station parallel to the SER a couple of blocks away. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Folkestone Warren. http://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/folkestoneWarren.html Samphire Hoe. (Ex-Shakespeare Halt) West entrance to Shakespeare Tunnel. http://www.samphirehoe.com/uk/samphire-hoe/creation/ Edited January 3, 2016 by David Todd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 One Hundred years ago @Folkestone Warren. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 It does rather seem that there are several parallels with the Dawlish situation of early 2014 - Sea Wall damaged, unstable cliffs and a halt nearby with the name 'Warren' in it. And with a not dissimilar history of slips and erosion damage 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 One Hundred years ago @Folkestone Warren. image.jpeg The perils of using EM gauge flanges on P4 track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 The perils of using EM gauge flanges on P4 track. Wrong thread Cap'n Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Circa 1904. The wooden trestle viaduct,to Sheakespeare Tunnei. 1966. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 Wrong thread Cap'n Yeah, lost on 'em here, isn't it?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 The problem with the A20 is that it is subject to a mini-Operation Stack for parking lorries every time there's a bit of wind in the channel or the illegals blockade Calaistan again. There's also the problem of fog patches which seem to cause multitudes of lorries to drive into each other and block the road. the old A20 isn't any better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Maybe the London Chatham and Dover Railway should have built the Alkham Valley Line between Kearnsey and Folkestone proposed back in 1844 something I had not heard about until I purchased the recently published book on the Elham Valley Railway by Brian Hart (Wild Swan Books ISBN 978 0 953877 12 6). From what I can understand the line would have entered Folkestone from the Hawkinge direction burrow under the SER line somewhere near where Folkestone Central is and the hang a sharp right (towards Sandgate) to end up with a station parallel to the SER a couple of blocks away. Keith A link,to your subject, http://www.elham.co.uk/elham/elham%20valley%20railway/elham_valley_railway.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Photo taken 5 minutes ago. The last 48 hours has seen torrential rain and high winds. But, The Orangemen carry on. They have managed to plié drive in the beach and load limestone rock behind it. Look s like the sink holes have been dug out. The shale road is also down to the working site. No sign of any Civil Engineering train,although,one was booked from Hoo early this morning. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2016 I spent a few days in Folkestone a few years back when there was an engineering blockade on and the RRB service was hardly used, each time I travelled on it at various times of the day in either direction the most people on it was no more than a dozen or 15 perhaps. This was weekdays and not weekends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Photo taken 5 minutes ago. The last 48 hours has seen torrential rain and high winds. But, The Orangemen carry on. They have managed to plié drive in the beach and load limestone rock behind it. Look s like the sink holes have been dug out. The shale road is also down to the working site. No sign of any Civil Engineering train,although,one was booked from Hoo early this morning. image.jpeg Rather them than me in the rain we've had in the last two days; flooding in Hawkinge, Alkham Valley and Lydden. I wonder what they'll find (or not)as they're excavating? Bits of timber viaduct: I wonder when/if that was removed? I wonder where the rock-armour came from? In the past, it's been brought from the limestone quarries between Calais and Boulogne. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Rather them than me in the rain we've had in the last two days; flooding in Hawkinge, Alkham Valley and Lydden. I wonder what they'll find (or not)as they're excavating? Bits of timber viaduct: I wonder when/if that was removed? I wonder where the rock-armour came from? In the past, it's been brought from the limestone quarries between Calais and Boulogne. I have lots more pics of today, but, have. Not been recon'd to broadband yet,so still on a dongle,transferring pics,eats up to much of my paid for mobile data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Bucket & Spade Brigade, turn up,for a day a the beach, tide is just on the ebb, so, it should be high tide,in Calais, soon ? My bucket, is, Bigger than yours ! Looks like, the supports of the bridge has been stitched up. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 Amazing how quickly the rails get rusty if no trains pass for a few days ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Amazing how quickly the rails get rusty if no trains pass for a few days ...Indeed; we have a timetable that ensures every possible route is used at least once daily to stop rust build-up. A dirty rail-head can lead to difficulties with train detection, and all systems dependant on track circuit actuation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobster Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Another great set of Pics David - Thanks for the updates Cheers, Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 A couple of observations: If the plan is to keep the line open an 'engineers siding' running alongside the mainline might be useful. It could be used to ferry the large quantities of shingle that have formed a high bank adjacent to the Admiralty Pier, back to the area adjacent to the tunnel mouth. There are traces of groynes to inhibit the drift of the shingle. Once layed a small locomotive and a couple of hoppers could shuttle up and down as required tipping shingle. maybe a more economic option in the long term, that the 'big hit' principle that's being applied at present. Also moted in the pictures is the physical state of the concrete components of the footbridge. One shot in particular shows rows of reinforcing rods visible where the surface has fallen away. Probably a product of Exmouth Junction, I'm sure our eagle eyed photo researchers will give us an age for it's construction. Good luck to everybody and their efforts, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 How much in height the beach has lost, can be found in the link below. http://www.dover-express.co.uk/AMAZING-PICTURE-Photo-shows-just-beach-lost-Dover/story-28442189-detail/story.html#gOlmfcOFeFCPwbiC.01 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now