Coleshill (Forge Mills ) layout and stock

[46256]

Hello Iain yes the ride height is apparent in the photo, 46120 is paired with a DJH tender. The dilemma, as the cylinders and motion bracket set the ride height at the front of the loco so any reduction in height under the cab either by filing the frames or removing plastic under the cab dosn’t solve the problem. I have read a number of views on this, possibly,  on your thread, about the correlation between loco and tender. This could vary given the weight when full of coal and water. In respect of  loco weight I have yet to test the haulage capacity of 46120. It’s running is exemplary, as you would expect from a portescap…haulage though? as with any plastic body transferring the power of the motor to the track still requires careful weighting.  My method of adding weight to my locos , liquid lead in the body cavity secured by runny superglue not pva. ( Still a risky part of the operation..small holes around handrails for example and superglue spoils your best paint job..and in some cases best pair of jeans) The other method soldering lead strip into the frames, not great if you want an open frame under the boiler. I note Hornby are now adding metal running plates to their locos. The renumbered latter Bachmann jubilee has this feature and I can confirm it really assists traction. How is your fantastic model of Camden progressing? I find it inspiring.

 

best wishes Brian

[46256]

I’ve just been examining my Royal Scot’s. In both cases Hornby bodies. The first replacement chassis was as a result of Mazak rot causing the gear holding to come adrift, my subsequent attempt to repair rendered the whole chassis U/s. I therefore don’t have a Hornby chassis to compare how they achieved the match with their tender ride height. I have compared the Hornby body with Ian Beatties drawing in LMSR locomotives. The Hornby cab is too shallow compared with this drawing, assuming the accuracy of same. My mainline bodied Galatea has just been placed on 46120 chassis and matches the ride height of tenders. Ok Jube cabs are different from Scots…interesting though the rear drivers foul the mainline recesses in the cab area. I’m getting quite a collection of LMS express 460 s.

I Just wish I had a layout like Camden to display / run them  just seeing them now on my workbench is still quite a sight

[46256]

The scene

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by 46256

[Barry O]

Not sure if Ian Beatties drawings are accurate.

 

I use woods metal (which melts in hot water) and pour it into the loco bodies. It doesn't melt the plastic and is heavy.

 

Baz

[Compound2632]

55 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I use woods metal (which melts in hot water) and pour it into the loco bodies. It doesn't melt the plastic and is heavy.

 

Isn't that somewhat toxic? I'm sure you take suitable precautions yourself.

 

But can a model so weighted be sold?

[Asterix2012]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Isn't that somewhat toxic? I'm sure you take suitable precautions yourself.

 

But can a model so weighted be sold?

It would appear pretty nasty but there may be a non toxic alternative 

 

“Wood's metal is toxic because it contains lead and cadmium, and contamination of bare skin is considered harmful. Vapour from cadmium-containing alloys is also known to pose a danger to humans. Cadmium poisoning carries the risk of cancer, anosmia (loss of sense of smell), and damage to the liver, kidneys, nerves, bones, and respiratory system. Field's metal is a non-toxic alternative”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood's_metal

 

Appreciate this is from Wikipedia 

[Barry O]

Like all items with cadmium or lead care must be taken. However, just like cadmium or lead the major concern is dust which is not good for you. If you are not machining it (which I don't) then dust is not an issue.  The cerrabond I bought had no warnings on it but I first used it 45 years ago (both cerrabond and cadmium were used in missile systems). 

 

Of course and alternative (lead in some form) can be used but as it oxidises it gives you a better chance of getting lead onto the skin and into your respite system.

Baz

[46256]

Interesting thoughts about the toxicity of some of our model materials. I’ve often dremelled the liquid lead and superglue mix, removing  it from unwanted cavities in the loco body. The fumes alone are unwelcome. In respect of LMS loco drawings, I do envy the Eastern modellers and the Isinglass collection. I have the Roche book and Ian Beatties LMS and BR set printed by Bradford Barton. I also refer to as many photos as possible, and then still manage to get it wrong! 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, 46256 said:

In respect of LMS loco drawings, I do envy the Eastern modellers and the Isinglass collection. I have the Roche book and Ian Beatties LMS and BR set printed by Bradford Barton. I also refer to as many photos as possible, and then still manage to get it wrong! 

 

I'm surprised you don't have the series of LMS Locomotive Profiles by Essery, Hunt, James, and Jennison, published by Wild Swan. Original drawings galore, replete with dimensions.

[46256]

Hello Stephen,

 

in fact I do have some of those profiles, most of the black five series for a start…I need to check just what I have got, as ever the answer can be staring you in the face!

Genius spotting the blinking obvious

Edited May 11, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

No such luck with the Scots In respect of loco profile however just ordered a copy from well known auction site.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by 46256

[92220]

Thanks Brian.  I removed some plastic from the body under the cab and I got it to roughly the right height in the end.  As I recall the correct measurement is roughly 59mm from the rail head. But I’d have to check.

 

The difficulty was that, having used a Mashima motor and a Comet GB3 on the middle axle, I had a job getting enough weight in the rear of the loco.  The front has the Hornby weight but there isn’t much room behind the motor.  
 

I have a couple more Scots and 2-3 rebuilt Patriots to do: I’ll need to find a better arrangement to get enough weight in the rear end of the loco.

 

Getting enough weight in a Black 5 is also a challenge but it’s a bit more balanced front to rear.

 

Weighting a plastic Coronation body is a bit easier because it’s cavernous 

 

Iain

 

[46256]

Iain your timing is uncanny , I’ve just spent this afternoon adding liquid lead to 46120. This has a portescap motor so as stated it’s running is fantastic…however haulage is another matter. Having waited a few hours for the superglue to cure….yes I have had previously, globs of liquid lead and uncured glue drop into motor and chassis…..air blue…anyway.lots of lead front and rear but very little where the motor sits over centre drivers. The result for the moment it’s struggling up my mini Lickey incline   ( exit from fiddle yard ) with four coaches….Bachmann 45506 on same train romped up. I will revisit tomorrow possibly adding lead strip into the chassis itself. The rtr boys solve this by often encasing their motor in a weighted outer cradle and as mentioned now adopting metal running plates, even then some of their creations still require extra weighting. The joy of our hobby!

Whilst waiting I also wheeled the comet chassis for 45699. This will have a high level  gearbox and one of Chris’ s large motors. It does indeed have some power having used one recently

Best wishes Brian
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[46256]

Well more liquid lead and now lead strip soldered into chassis , a seriously heavy locomotive and now hauling the required coaching stock. I recall years ago an article in MRJ about 460s and problems with haulage. I now have a loco that can haul my seven eight coach trains….im not sure it would handle scale length west coast expresses on Iain’s Camden or that other West Coast magnum opus Carlisle.

 

That has given me an idea I will ask Mike Edge what he has used for that latter layout and how he tackles haulage. I will report back in due course.

[46256]

Even more lead soldered into chassis effectively both in front of, and behind motor. This , with the liquid lead in the body, has combined to give the sort of tractive effort in keeping with  a rebuilt Scot. The profile of the Scots has landed. The height from rail head to platform is 4 ft 8 inches. I’m trying to work out the actual depth of the running plate , as to my eye the Hornby interpretation is too shallow. There is no actual measurement shown in the diagrams for that particular aspect. I’m therefore trying to convert the sizes from the working drawings, shown in imperial .

High level motor and gears have landed so Galatea about to be motorised.

 

[46256]

I have thought for some time that the prototype information for the area modelled has sat rather incongruously in kit building . The loss of the previous photos on the thread has prompted me to create a new one in modelling prototype locations simply entitled Water Orton.This particular thread will therefore only show layout stock, featuring items of construction which may be of interest. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

Further to my last message, I hadn’t previously been aware of the modelling real locations thread, trust me there are some seriously good models there, York….yes York….Glasgow Queen Street to name but two of the wonderful models to be found there…inspirational 

Edited June 23, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

Whilst languishing recently on a sunbed in Mallorca, I idly went through the Wizard models website…I know living the life, whilst my good lady read her umpteenth romantic novel…anyway it appears Wizard, have a number of frets for the Royal Scot, including cab. I know, not surprising given they produce a full kit. I mention this because of the recent correspondence here concerning the ride height, and cab to tender alignment when using a Hornby body, and comet chassis. I wonder has anyone used these to enhance the rtr bodies available i.e Mainline,  Airfix, Hornby or even the GBL offering? 

Edited June 23, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

 Before jetting off on annual hols I visited my local model shop. I was taken by a s/ h model of a 94 xx, and duly purchased. I thought it was a kit build. The chassis was….to EM gauge. The body is Lima…thoughts from poolside on how to enhance this, other modellers have used the Lima as a good starting point. I have one already adapted, on a comet chassis. This one will be given extra attention. I am tempted to scrap the chassis and replace with a comet one, it will in any case have a high level gearbox and motor to replace the dodgy one I found fitted.  The finished model will represent one of the Bromsgrove bankers 8402.. plates ordered will show on here when work commences

Edited June 24, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

Well back in Blighty and examining the chassis of my hastily purchased 9 4 xx. Oh dear…thought I might reuse after altering  to OO . I have done this a number of times when I changed from EM some years ago. Not good plastic hornguides held in with epoxy…chassis soldered with bakers flux…residue all over tried cleaning up. Comet pannier chassis ordered…

Edited June 27, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

Some recent work on my return from holidays. The 94 xx was an impulse buy, now with comet chassis scalelink wheels high level gear and motor. Eire a straight renumber and name of a Bachmann jubilee. Lastly Galatea now has working chassis great motor and gearbox from high level

[46256]

[46256]

My next project inspired by Iain’s version on his Camden layout I’m embarking on creating the unique 46170 British Legion. I am assembling the Hornby spare bodies and will show the work . The real loco was seen on London expresses at New Street, and whilst I have no record of it going through Water Orton those same trains were known to divert through…so …anyway seeking info on the loco. I have the profile of the Scots vol 1 but nothing in there . Any info as to where I can find this please let me know. Iain’s account on his Camden thread had a number of informative photos now lost due to the recent migration. I note that the Loco profiles for the Scots were updated …no 15 I think does anyone know if it included details on this particular rebuild

Edited July 7, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

The reason why the Bachmann loco was renumbered, photo courtesy of John Griffiths

[46256]

The parts for 46170 starting to arrive. I have purchased a Hornby Scot chassis. The description stated that it had suffered the familiar fate of gears no longer meshing, reflected in the price. I have seen the replacement covers for the gears advertised and am curious to discover if this is a remedy, not least I still have a couple of Hornby chassis locos that this may yet effect. The piece has been ordered and as ever, I will report here how effective it is . I’m still seeking information about this loco in particular the dimensions of the smokebox to boiler ratio. I’m also pondering how to create the distinctive steam pipes. I’ve just purchased and downloaded the book The LMS class 7 rebuilds by David Clarke. There are I’m pleased to say numerous photos of British Legion, highlighting the many variations this loco had to the other Scots.

Edited July 9, 2022 by 46256