Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge GWR Dean Goods

[sp1]

I agree - I mentioned the same thing on one of the Oxford Rail wagon threads

 

 

 

 

 

Don't want to get into RTR wish-listing, but I can't help wondering whether there's an opportunity for Oxford Rail in the demise of Coopercraft. Ie doing quality RTR versions of all those Coopercraft wagon kits that have been stable fare for kit builders for ages, but now look to be disappearing. And to keep it on topic: They could begin with some of the GWR opens and vans, which would complement the Dean Goods well.

[JSpencer]

Which raises the question of whether it would be any, or much, cheaper. A source of body parts and chassis to convert it to other locos might be a better option. Then anyone who just wants a chassis can sell the body.

I personally am not keen on buying a modern Dean Goods, striping the chassis out for an O2, selling the other bits off and then running the O2 alongside the old mainline version! But I accept the point....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 ..They could begin with some of the GWR opens and vans, which would complement the Dean Goods well.

 

 Or even the LMS open and van designs which would not only suit the Dean Goods, but the entire UK, as they were about 40% of the entire common user fleet, and these are a long term 'hole' in RTR provision. The 'why' of subject choices is baffling. The LNER standard 6 plank is a good choice at no 3 in the common user wagon table, but there are already other LNER standard vans and opens available. Why not 'strike for the top' of the no 1 and no 2 spots? The lack of good RTR models of these makes this an open goal in my view. Some object that they are 'dull' as subjects, but it seems to me that Bachmann must have mightily cleaned up on the BR 16T mineral designs, than which nothing is duller.

 

 The LNER cattle van is a mystery, presumably eye-candy sales? These were relatively rare vehicles and spent most of the time waiting for their traffic as far as I can see, or being redeployed into fruit and veg transport to meet seasonal peaks.

[melmerby]

 Or even the LMS open and van designs which would not only suit the Dean Goods, but the entire UK, as they were about 40% of the entire common user fleet,

This is one of the glaring mistakes which one often sees in otherwise exquisite layouts at shows.

 

We have a GWR (insert other company if required) goods shed and the entire wagon fleet is of company vehicles.

Just look at a steam era goods yard anywhere to see the variety of wagons there.

 

See this view of MR Central Goods (Suffolk St.) Birmingham:

http://warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy692.htm

 

Also GWR Hockley:

http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhd725.htm

 

 

Keith

[DCB]

That's a great picture of Hockley.  Look at that track spacing.  no way is that 50mm, in 00.   44mm maybe.

 

The 0-6-0 thing is interesting, they were almost unknown on the ex GWR in Cornwall post war, and I'm not too sure the SR had any there either.   Exeter had a 2251 which was photographed on Kingswear locals but that was pretty much it as regards the far west.

 

It may be that some small classes of unsuccessful Diesels are modelled, but things like the D600s were seen by lots of people as they travelled from Old Oak to Penzance.   Think of a Summer Saturday at Dawlish 1958, maybe 3 X D600, 8 Kings 20 castles, Halls, Granges, 70000s but No Panniers or 0-6-0s and probably only 1 Prairie all day in daylight. Almost all on long distance passenger, with a very rare parcels, no goods almost no local passenger.  If you want to model that (and I would prefer Stoneycombe Quarry) then you need the D600 and don't need any panniers, 14XX etc.   That said I would still probably want a Dean Goods if it could pull a 10 coach train, run on uneven code 100 track and had loco drive....

 

The Dean "Goods" in reality more a mixed traffic loco, were decimated by the war (not literally, not 10% more like 40%) as they were called up for military service and never returned, their duties going to a variety of other locos especially the surviving outside frame 4-4-0s and presumably panniers.    The last few were retained for diversions over the Severn Bridge when the tunnel was closed, the need disappeared when it was strengthened to allow 43XX.  The Deans were drafted in from other sheds when required to work Hereford to Bristol trains over the bridge.

[melmerby]

That's a great picture of Hockley.  Look at that track spacing.  no way is that 50mm, in 00.   44mm maybe.

 

In reality more like the real thing.

Maybe Peco used the GWR track spacing on ex Broad gauge double track routes where the outer rail was moved in leaving much greater "six foot" than the Stephenson gauge lines?

 

Edit

I like this view of the MR shed with the compound points where the point blades of the diverging tracks come off at the same position!

http://warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy928.htm

A good view of the track spacing as well

 

Not many Dean Goods in view though!

 

Keith

Edited February 12, 2016 by melmerby

[BG John]

The 0-6-0 thing is interesting, they were almost unknown on the ex GWR in Cornwall post war

Not a problem for those of us who model the time when "post war" meant the Boer War was over, and no one knew they'd be fighting the Hun in muddy trenches in France in a few years! Although even then they weren't as common in Cornwall as they were in Devon, according to the RCTS book.

[Devo63]

The Dean "Goods" in reality more a mixed traffic loco

In the late 40's my father and his mate Ron would regularly go down to Cardiff General to see what was hauling the express from Paddington always hoping for a brand new engine or a shiny recent overhall. On one occasion the train was very late. Dad said he was about to give up and go home when they finally saw the express approaching. They could see plenty of smoke and could clearly see the coaches but could not make out what was hauling the train. When the train finally got close enough to see they became aware that it was being pulled by a pair of grubby, almost worn out, Dean Goods. They found out later that the Castle which had been hauling the train failed near Newport and the Dean Goods were quickly grabbed from their regular duties to take the express. My father always said he was disappointed at the time and failed to take a photograph, a decision that he regrets today.

 

Dave    

[melmerby]

In the late 40's my father and his mate Ron would regularly go down to Cardiff General to see what was hauling the express from Paddington always hoping for a brand new engine or a shiny recent overhall. On one occasion the train was very late. Dad said he was about to give up and go home when they finally saw the express approaching. They could see plenty of smoke and could clearly see the coaches but could not make out what was hauling the train. When the train finally got close enough to see they became aware that it was being pulled by a pair of grubby, almost worn out, Dean Goods. They found out later that the Castle which had been hauling the train failed near Newport and the Dean Goods were quickly grabbed from their regular duties to take the express. My father always said he was disappointed at the time and failed to take a photograph, a decision that he regrets today.

 

Dave    

But did they keep time?

 

Keith

[Devo63]

But did they keep time?

 

Keith

Hi Keith,

 

I don't know how long it had taken to arrange for the relief locos but the train was about an hour late. My father said (bear in mind that what he remembers happened 67 or 68 years ago) that the train approached the station at about the same rate as the normal Castle hauled ones. He also said the crews of the two locomotives looked like they were enjoying themselves hauling an express for a change.

 

Dave

[Quarryscapes]

 

The Dean "Goods" in reality more a mixed traffic loco, were decimated by the war (not literally, not 10% more like 40%) as they were called up for military service and never returned, their duties going to a variety of other locos especially the surviving outside frame 4-4-0s and presumably panniers.    The last few were retained for diversions over the Severn Bridge when the tunnel was closed, the need disappeared when it was strengthened to allow 43XX.  The Deans were drafted in from other sheds when required to work Hereford to Bristol trains over the bridge.

 

The last few were retained for branch traffic on the ex Cambrian route between Oswestry and Newtown, 2516 went with the closure of the kerry branch and 2538 soldiered on a little while longer. They were the only thing small enough and light enough still around  to be used on the Kerry branch hence their longevity, the rest of the class had gone a few years before with the introduction of the Ivatt and Standard class 2 2-6-0s. Of the 40 locos on BR's books, 25 of them were withdrawn from Central Wales division sheds, making them a must for nearly all Welsh GWR modellers! 

[Quarryscapes]

 

Thanks Keith......glad I asked

I guess I will have to renumber the Great Western release..........have you any ideas for a suitable number in the Cambrian area (Granbys geography is somewhat elastic)?

Regards

John

 

Missed this earlier - see if you can get hold of Cambrian Railways Album volume 2 - a cornucopia of candidates in there for you, with one common modification needed: they almost all have straight chimneys.

 

I'm thinking about getting a second one to hack up into one of the Manchester & Milford loaners, round top firebox and dome on front ring would be an interesting challenge though. 

[Quarryscapes]

One better, for the Central Wales section in March 1938 you can use:

 

2327, 2388, 2417, 2424, 2435, 2447, 2466, 2514,2516, 2543 ( Oswestry)

 

2351, 2455, 2520 (Llanidloes)

 

2343, 2457, 2545, 2559, 2565 (Moat Lane)

 

2476 (Whitchurch)

 

2345, 2437, 2468, 2469, 2481, 2490, 2544 (Machynlleth)

 

2321, 2421, 2438, 2525 (Aerystwyth)

 

2449, 2450, 2464, 2465, 2536, 2572 (Porthmadog)

 

2315 (Pwllheli)

 

2342, 2386, 2401, 2428, 2483, 2522, 2523, 2576 (Brecon)

 

2574 (Builth Wells)

 

Also Croes Newydd had 2419 and 2569 which would likely have been seen on the Penmaenpool run too. 

 

(From Great Western Railway Journal No.13)

[Edwardian]

If it would help anyone (it's too much to post) I can give the Dean Goods allocations/locations month by month for 1935.  Just PM and I'll dig it out.

[Quarryscapes]

If it would help anyone (it's too much to post) I can give the Dean Goods allocations/locations month by month for 1935.  Just PM and I'll dig it out.

 

 

Ooh, I'd be interested in seeing that if it's not too much trouble

[Edwardian]

Not at all.  Having recently moved house, I need to find where it's got to!

 

It is large format, so will have to be reduced or transcribed.  It will give you the tender (at least at the start of the year) and show where each locomotive was at monthly intervals.  You will see when it was in the works and when it was last overhauled etc.  Quite fascinating.

 

I use it to feed my South Devon obsession, so have not really delved into the Dean Goods pages as, of course, 0-6-0 goods types were long gone from the area by then.

 

It strikes me that it will list any surviving absorbed types as well.  Just let me know.  I should say it is arranged numerically, not by class, so some classes are spit where they used more than one number sequence.  So, the quick way for me to find what you want is to give me the numbers. 

[dibber25]

Samples of Dean goods, Janus and wagons seen today:

 

https://www.facebook.com/modelrail/photos/a.371681018206.157212.176420418206/10153700660548207/?type=3&theater

[Quarryscapes]

I hope they put better plates and handrails on the retail versions, that looks pretty poor to be honest!

[Edwardian]

And for those of us who don't do Facetube?

[DavidM]

And for those of us who don't do Facetube?

 

You don't have to be signed up to view - click away and have a look!

[Edwardian]

You don't have to be signed up to view - click away and have a look!

 

Thanks.  A big pop-up popped up blocking my view but on closer inspection there was some small print allowing me to get rid of it! 

 

Mind you, if the Chap who can't spell and who thinks the Dean Goods is "proper smart" despite not being a Great Eastern fan is anything to go by, I don't think I shall bother with Facetube!

[bertiedog]

Are the comments based on just the published shots as to the handrails and plates, it is probably only a sample run, and the photo is none too clear. the plates are misplaced a bit, and the rails are not straight, but they seem to have straight radially mounted handrail supports unlike Hornby on the latest die cast bodies, a near uncorrectable issue.

At least Oxford are doing better than Hornby who take thirty or more years to wake up to the market at times.

Edited May 29, 2016 by bertiedog

[dibber25]

Are the comments based on just the published shots as to the handrails and plates, it is probably only a sample run, and the photo is none too clear. the plates are misplaced a bit, and the rails are not straight, but they seem to have straight radially mounted handrail supports unlike Hornby on the latest die cast bodies, a near uncorrectable issue.

At least Oxford are doing better than Hornby who take thirty or more years to wake up to the market at times.

The model we were shown was a hand-painted engineering prototype and the photographs are not studio shots - it was a lightning visit and we didn't have time to arrange for studio photography. Tim was on his way to other magazines, so I assumed that BRM/Andy would post photos on RMweb. (CJL) 

[Andy Y]

I was elsewhere on the day that Tim visited but pics will appear in due course.

 

I think it's fair to say that most EP samples look as though they've been in the wars after a good looking over by owners and journos alike; a few times, to be fair to the manufacturer, I've only photographed a locos good side to save RMweb going into meltdown over a missing or broken component. Tony Wright spent quite a bit of time getting the Janus fit to run and re-fitting handrails for when it was filmed I believe.

[NHY 581]

I am truly concerned about asking for a jAnus Shunter.......and as for googling it........

Edited May 30, 2016 by nhy581