Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[Craig1989]

Hope they do the network rail sleeper and chiltern set first

[James90012]

I would expect Scotrail MK3s to be among the first - namely since the Bachmann 47 has been out a while and the DBSO is in development, apparently.

[royaloak]

Of course if they do a really good job on the MK3s people might start looking closely at the Hornby HST power cars- and from what I can see of them you really don't want to do that.

Indeed, exhaust deflector on the Cross Country models, not fitted on the real ones!

 

A lot of GWR ones have been shortened as well.

[Derekstuart]

Or the replacement WSP units fitted on the axle boxes. But it's not that, it's the front nose. I don't doubt that Dave (above) is right about the angle of the cab fronts, but it is the lip that seems wrong to me- it seems very straight and somehow wrong.

 

I've also read Jim Smith Wright comment about the windows being wrong- and he is a chap who studies these things to the nth degree.

 

Or shall we just comment on that very prominent mould line?

 

Sorry o/t.

Indeed, exhaust deflector on the Cross Country models, not fitted on the real ones!

 

A lot of GWR ones have been shortened as well.

[James90012]

I didn't think that I would be convinced that another HST model was required, but actually for the sake of producing a complete end to end product there could be a market. As others have said, it seems that HSTs are very popular with modellers at the moment, with only the Midland Mainline set being difficult to shift of late (though the power cars have never been reduced in price massively).

[Andy Mac]

Patiently waiting to get 3 Scotrail rakes of Mk3's.... 3 Scotrail 47/7's waiting for their consists...

 

Yeah, I agree with the comment re that Scotrail rakes might be in the first releases.... Plenty of demand and loco's and a dbso due to be released sometime in the 21st Century... Oxford will want the initial releases to sell well, so to me, it's a no brainer....

 

Also hoping Bachmann do some of their Mk2F's in the second release of liveries as well....

[royaloak]

Maybe the nose is too straight across the front, there is a very slight curve there, is it on the model?

 

More importantly would enough people sell on their Hornby power cars and replace them with Oxford ones?

Some would but would it be enough to make the PCs a viable option for Oxford, I dont think so!

Edited September 14, 2016 by royaloak

[Derekstuart]

Royaloak, that's more or less what I thought regarding the shape- it looks like it has come off worst in an argument with a set of buffers.

 

The Lima power cars, whilst lacking some of the super detail, do at least have the basic shape correct.

 

As for the commercial realities of OD/OM releasing power cars, I would agree. The similarity to other models would be enough to dent their sales enough to make it too big a risk. Many other wishlists on RMW will come to nought for a similar reason.

[wombatofludham]

I can't imagine the market for Adams radials or Dean Goods is big enough to sustain competing models but Oxford seem to think so.  I think there is a market for a competing (better priced) HST especially given the attention they are getting at 40 years old and Hornby's lacklustre interest in releases - how many blue-grey original spec power cars do Hornby think we need?  Why not release a blue grey NE-SW spec power car without the guards window and with the exhaust deflector?  Or a rerun of the Swallow livery?  I'm convinced Hornby just haven't got a grasp of the post-steam market which does leave the road open to others to come in and take market share.

 ​Plus I haven't bought a new spec HST from Hornby yet so I'm one of those who would be very interested in seeing something from Oxford!

[MRDBLUE17]

I've only recently got a new spec HST as the VTEC livery on the NRM power cars was hard to resist. I'm also going to get a full set of coaches for them as the livery suits them well. The Oxford releases will be good from the spec detailed and I can see them doing an 87 to go with the loco hauled stock. Sleepers and the NMT coaches would be good.

 

Mark

[surfsup]

Scale colours are a nightmare! Particularly when you compare to the real thing or a photo where the variation in the light becomes so important in what you see...

Completely agree! Tring to match photos to FGWs rolling stock can often be difficult, but not as difficult as it seems for Hornby to manage to produce a batch of models in FGW Blue that actually match each other - see posts in the Harry Patch thread for example.

[Removed a/c]

I will be keeping all the coaches I have in my HST sets (Looks like the OR will have NEM pockets with small tension locks) I think this will prove a nightmare with the large tension locks of the power cars. I will however add some for loco hauled rakes and hopefully we will see a full Royal train rake (minus the MK2s of course but this would then give them the opportunity to branch into the MK2 sector

Edited September 15, 2016 by thebritfarmer

[Hilux5972]

I'm hoping some one will come up with a replacement coupler for the Hornby HST. Preferably with Kadees.

[scottrains29]

I hope they do a good job of these coaches. I would really like them to include a full corridor connection made of flexible rubber or silicone. The little paper ones you can buy just look rather naf to me. A full corridor connection would certainly reduce the toy like appearance that the Hornby ones have. I'm surprised no UK manufacturer has produced them yet. They could be attached by a thin magnet to allow removal when running on sharp radius curves.

If the new coach is a vast improvement on the Hornby ones then I'll certainly be buying a few rakes.

[newbryford]

Indeed, exhaust deflector on the Cross Country models, not fitted on the real ones!

 

A lot of GWR ones have been shortened as well.

 

The deflectors were fitted to XC power cars, but have been removed at a later date as the deflector isn't required with the MTU engines.

Hornby XC power cars are 43285/43321.

43285 with exhaust deflector

and 43321

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited September 15, 2016 by newbryford

[newbryford]

Hope they do the network rail sleeper and chiltern set first

 

Network rail sleeper?

 

As much as there's a bit of joined up thinking with Chiltern Mk3s and the upcoming Dapol 68, the Chiltern Mk3s are reasonably different with their plug doors from a production Mk3.

 

Quite a bit different from a "normal" Mk3/Mk3a

 

and you'd also require a suitably modified DVT.. (The Hornby DVT is a very good model but would need altering to match, unless Oxford are intending to do a Mk3 DVT?)

 

Can't really see the red box company going out of their way to provide a suitable match to a competitor's coaches.

 

Admittedly there is the un-refurbished blue/grey set that get used on Chiltern duties, but that will still require a suitable DVT.

 

As for NMT Mk3s - too many differences on each individual vehicle to make it economically viable to produce 975814/977993/977994/975984/977984 and the spare/stand-in 977996 unless they go down the route of overprinting/over painting windows.

 

(Totally IMHO of course and I would love to be proved wrong, but in the meantime, I'm pushing on with my NMT set)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Derekstuart]

Mick, I did read somewhere that OR were going to produce the Chiltern MK3s with their plug doors. Whether that was an official statement or someone who thinks he knows more than the rest of us I cannot say.

 

As for Notwork Rail having MK3s- where do you get this bizarre idea from? Apart from a very small number transferred to departmental/RTC some years back they are all still in front line service with BR Intercity. HSTs and LHCS alike. The few MK3s that were transferred to RTC are all in red and blue.

 

Nothing in yellow on our railways thank you.

 

 

EDIT: I am BOUND to get someone not realising that was just tongue in cheek wishful thinking, so if you are reading this and just about to reply with photos of bast******d yellow HSTs please don't. I mean, just don't. It's not clever.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Derekstuart

[mikeharvey22]

The Chiltern former blue-grey set now carries Mainline livery, so a slam door CDL coach would be OK. No need for a compromised buffet car on that set either. The DVT is not always a matching one with the auxiliary power conversion.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/laurasia280/29446573421/in/pool-chilternmainlineloco/

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I can't imagine the market for Adams radials or Dean Goods is big enough to sustain competing models but Oxford seem to think so.  I think there is a market for a competing (better priced) HST especially given the attention they are getting at 40 years old and Hornby's lacklustre interest in releases ...

 Definitely room for competition. Every other significant, numerous and long lived BR diesel traction unit is at least duplicated by existing manufacturers in OO. A newcomer inevitably has to tread on toes somewhere in diesel traction, and there are good models already in place which limits options. If you want to break in, then you have to look for the optimum combination of where the competition is weakest, and the potential demand is strongest. Hornby alone have the HST, and it is a half baked product: it just screams 'TAKE ME!'.

 

But 'better priced'? The better priced is already with us, the ex-Lima.

 

The opportunity is at the premium end of the market, a class leading product sold as integrated sets of traction and coaches in the correct formations. If Bachmann could afford to tool up for a premium model of a single shortlived route restricted DMU (Blue Bogcart) then it must be viable risk for a 40 years in service, immensely varied, and widely seen all over the network and popular unit train: that isn't finished with yet. Just my opinion, but Oxford are going to need a flagship product or two to head up the brand to make the break into 'major brand' perception, and this could be one such product suitable for that purpose. If they choose to go for it...

[Nile_Griffith]

 

The opportunity is at the premium end of the market, a class leading product sold as integrated sets of traction and coaches in the correct formations. If Bachmann could afford to tool up for a premium model of a single shortlived route restricted DMU (Blue Bogcart) then it must be viable risk for a 40 years in service, immensely varied, and widely seen all over the network and popular unit train: that isn't finished with yet. Just my opinion, but Oxford are going to need a flagship product or two to head up the brand to make the break into 'major brand' perception, and this could be one such product suitable for that purpose. If they choose to go for it...

 

 

In my conversation with Mr Oxford Rail I did very much get the impression that their thinking was being able to provide the modeller with a complete rake of correctly detailed and numbered rolling stock of the shelf. With hindsight I now realise that in that conversation our discussion about future loco's was about Oxford Rail making sure that any future loco products dovetailed in with the "Complete Rake" concept.

 

Thinking things through, a well organised manufacturer, capable of bringing a well spec'ed model(s) to market reliably and quickly could do a whole lot worse than to build a product line around HST and Mk3 stock. There seems to be a general consensus that Hornby's attitude towards the class and type is fairly lack lustre. The variations of livery and body/build type are almost encyclopaedic, couple that with a forty year and counting lifespan, proliferation across the whole of the network, the appeal is pretty universal to anyone who models modern image operations. I guess to a confident and forward think manufacturer its a bit of a no brainer.

 

P.P.S. During my conversation with Mr Oxford Rail he was pretty quick to add to the conversation about the Mk3 and OR's research into build types's, especially the plug door variants. Now this could reflect a "we are not going there" opinion, but I kind of go the impression that what he was saying is that we are very aware of them and the importance of them in modelling terms......... Just a thought.

[wombatofludham]

Of course there is one type of loco that would "synergise" with the Mk3 and the Carflat ranges coming from Oxford.  It doesn't have a pointy nose but does have a coathanger thingy on the roof...

[Nile_Griffith]

Of course there is one type of loco that would "synergise" with the Mk3 and the Carflat ranges coming from Oxford.  It doesn't have a pointy nose but does have a coathanger thingy on the roof...

 

 

The one thing I am fairly certain of from my conversation with Mr Oxford Rail is that the Class 86 route wasn't on their radar, but I could be very wrong.

[lyneux]

The one thing I am fairly certain of from my conversation with Mr Oxford Rail is that the Class 86 route wasn't on their radar, but I could be very wrong.

 

 

87?

[Derekstuart]

THIS SPACE TO LET

 

IF you would like to rent this space to write a comment and then think better of it, try to delete it and find you can't, then please feel free to PM me.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Derekstuart

[Revolution Mike B]

Completely agree! Tring to match photos to FGWs rolling stock can often be difficult, but not as difficult as it seems for Hornby to manage to produce a batch of models in FGW Blue that actually match each other - see posts in the Harry Patch thread for example.

 

.....or even the correct colour blue......and retool the TGS so it's actually the same as all the other coaches and not a repainted Lima effort!

 

But then again, all the manufacturers are looking to do is make money....and the chances of people buy stuff that's completely wrong by far outweighs them not buying it....Dapol's 08 is a prime example!

 

Lets hope OR get the MK3s right because there's a good market for these coaches.

Edited September 21, 2016 by scoobyra