why is the contraction of a layout power supply thread locked

[HeeleyBridge]

Nice one. Note the capital W on Web. Some will understand the significance.

But mIcroSoft never cared

[pete_mcfarlane]

Was electricity more safer then or were boys more capable than now?

Or more expendable? 

[28XX]

While I get this last is a partly flippant comment, boys were more capable, and electricity was more dangerous. To start with it was often at or above 250vac in the UK, not the EU compromise 230v we have now, but more significantly most earthing protection relied on the fault current blowing the fuse in the appliance or consumer unit to achieve disconnection, at least tens of amps, as opposed to the humanly survivable 30mA required for an RCD or RCBO to trip today.

[Crosland]

The logical conclusion here is that, eventually, all online discussion must be reduced to a level and range of subjects that are considered safe for a rather dim 5 year old.

 

I think you mean mean safe for the forum sponsors

I remember in the late '50's getting a book from the school library, "The Boys Book Of Electricity", In it were instructions for make a shocking coil, a Wimshurst machine, an xray machine, (you could buy an xray tube from the radio surplus shop for £7.00), how to make your own xray plates and what chemicals were required, and a valve radio amongst other projects.

Was electricity more safer then or were boys more capable than now?

 

That was organic electricity, not the present day mass produced stuff

[Crosland]

electricity was more dangerous. To start with it was often at or above 250vac in the UK, not the EU compromise 230v we have now,

 

That's one thing you cannot blame the EU for as nothing has changed, apart from the allowable range, which is now 230v -5% +10%, or 218.5v to 253v. Our 240v with the new asymmetric tolerance limits is now known as 230v, France's 220v with revised tolerance limits is also known as 230v.

 

If you buy filament bulbs in mainland Europe you will still find they have a shorter life on our higher voltage.

 

Andrew

[Steven B]

boys were more capable.

Today's children, boys and girls are just as capable. Go to any school and you'll see kids doing things older folk could only dream of. Look up the Astro Pi schools project - surely the chance of getting your science project onto the space station is just as rewarding, and technically challenging as building a home made x-ray from a baked bean tin and some wet string.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B

[kevinlms]

This one really belongs in the Joke section of Wheeltappers, but perhaps it will bring a smile to you all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Sparky ('Electrician', the Royalty of all Trades) dies in a car accident on his 40th birthday and finds himself at the Pearly Gates.  A brass band is playing, the angels are singing a beautiful hymn, there is a huge crowd cheering and shouting his name, and absolutely everyone wants to shake his hand.

Just when he thinks things can't possibly get any better, Saint Peter himself runs over, apologizes for not greeting him personally at the Pearly Gates, shakes his hand, and says, "Congratulations son, we've been waiting a long time for you."

"Totally confused and a little embarrassed, the Sparky ('Electrician', the Royalty of all Trades) sheepishly looks at Saint Peter and says "Saint Peter, I tried to lead a God-fearing life, I loved my family, I tried to obey the 10 Commandments, but congratulations for what? I honestly don't remember doing anything really special when I was alive. Is it because I'm a Sparky, the Royalty of all Trades"

"Congratulations for what?" says Saint Peter, totally amazed at the man's modesty.

"We're celebrating the fact that you lived to be 160 years old!  God himself wants to see you!"

The Sparky ('Electrician', the Royalty of all Trades) is awestruck and can only look at Saint Peter with his mouth wide open.  When he regains his power of speech, he looks up at Saint Peter and says "Saint Peter, I lived my life in the eternal hope that when I died I would be judged by God and be found to be worthy, but I only lived to be forty."

"That's simply impossible son," says Saint Peter, "We've added up all your time sheets."

[Junctionmad]

I'm glad to see my mis-spelled topic has brought out the rmweb radicals. I mean Martin is here right.

 

PS for some fuses may protect the cable and or the appliance There's no hard and fast rule

 

And today's boys " and girls " are just as robust as those gone by. !

 

Dare

[PaulRhB]

Sorry but no one is less capable it's just people are scared of being sued if they let them do it

Considering I was taught in my teens about petrol, powder explosives and liquid nitrogen, to name but three, by my grandfather so I understood how dangerous they were and my father taught me the dangers of electricity. I still have all my limbs and have great respect for handling them. I've cast bronze, aluminium and brass at high temps in plaster moulds wearing full protective gear well aware what could happen if moisture got in the mix. All these are dangerous but if you take the right precautions and read up on it too you can do things with minimal risk. With the metal casting we read up extensively before trying new mixes and techniques because we knew there might be dangers. As with anything part of the education should be never trust just one source unless you categorically know it's reliable.

The only time I've been electrocuted was as a teen when the earth failed on a big chest freezer and I well remember how much that hurt and that wasn't due to incompetence but a part failure.

So please don't blame people for not knowing but blame the system being too scared to teach basic electrical safety in schools. If we can train electricians then we are perfectly capable of teaching teenagers and even younger basic skills and safety. It's ironic that this aversion to exposing them to it early causes more fires due to people daisy chaining extension leads or not unwinding them because the warnings are tiny and they know they don't read them. I even manage to work next to 650v DC without killing myself on a regular basis and I really have seen what it can do.

Social education at school should teach basic electric and gas safety, pensions, savings, mortgages, not taking your eye out with ladders and don't step on or walk into sharp things!

Rant mode off

[jukebox]

It's possibly not that boys and girls are less capable these days, but rather that lawyers these days are moreso. Or at least more enthusiastic    :-)

 

***

 

(I do have a bit of a smile at the posters suggesting they have been electrocuted...  I've always been taught if you're alive, it meant you got an electric shock. If you were electrocuted, it would be your next of kin writing about it)

[Colin_McLeod]

Well said Paul.

 

..... without killing myself on a regular basis)

I'm not sure it is possible to kill one's self on a regular basis.

[Junctionmad]

"That's simply impossible son," says Saint Peter, "We've added up all your time sheets."

 

still laughing over my morning coffee

 

dave

[Talltim]

Well said Paul.

 

 

I'm not sure it is possible to kill one's self on a regular basis.

But it is possible to not kill yourself on a regular basis

[amdaley]

Well said Paul.

It's not that young people are any less capable today.

It's just that we're afraid to teach them.

[Colin_McLeod]

This thread is longer than te one that was locked. Is this evidence of an inappropriate locking?

[amdaley]

This thread is longer than te one that was locked. Is this evidence of an inappropriate locking?

 

Lesson learned perhaps ?

[HeeleyBridge]

Unless somebody posts instructions on how to construct a transformer using nothing more than a few wire coathangers, baling wire and some sticky backed plastic, this thread should be ok.

 

Over to you Valerie Singleton ...

[Pacific231G]

I remember in the late '50's getting a book from the school library, "The Boys Book Of Electricity", In it were instructions for make a shocking coil, a Wimshurst machine, an xray machine, (you could buy an xray tube from the radio surplus shop for £7.00), how to make your own xray plates and what chemicals were required, and a valve radio amongst other projects.

Was electricity more safer then or were boys more capable than now?

There was a toy available between 1950-1951 that included these instructions

 

It was made by the A.C. Gilbert Co. best known for a product similar to Meccano called "The Erector Set" (no tittering in the back of the class please) and a range of S scale "model" trains running on 0 gauge track.

 

 

The Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab included alpha, beta and gamma radiation sources. If they weren't strong enough the set included a US Government manual on propspecting for Uranium, for which the Geiger counter you could build with the set would come in very handy.

The set was expensive and they sold very few of them which was probably a good thing.

 

 

Even when I was at secondary school in the mid 1960s we had radio sources in the physics lab and in the chemistry lab we handled mercury with no great precautions (so we weren't being taught to handle toxins safely which you could argue for) and even got to do the sodium in water experiment ourselves. Nobody wore safety glasses but hey, if a few schoolkids got blinded or worse each year that was their problem.

 

Of course in the US kids as young as twelve get to play with automatic assault rifles kept in their own homes but nothing could possibly go wrong with that.

[Reorte]

If you're worried about people doing something dangerous the best thing to do is to make sure that they've got some knowledge to know where the limits of their knowledge and ability lie. And it needs to be meaningful - saying "No, dangerous!" doesn't do the trick, and neither does listing horror stories, which end up having a "boy who cried wolf" effect. Hearing a capacitor go with a bang probably does more than pictures of burned down houses, particularly if it doesn't look like it's been contrived to do so.

[PatB]

There was a toy available between 1950-1951 that included these instructions

Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab radioactive sources.jpg

 

It was made by the A.C. Gilbert Co. best known for a product similar to Meccano called "The Erector Set" (no tittering in the back of the class please) and a range of S scale "model" trains running on 0 gauge track.

 

Gilbert Atomic_Energy_02.jpg

 

The Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab included alpha, beta and gamma radiation sources. If they weren't strong enough the set included a US Government manual on propspecting for Uranium, for which the Geiger counter you could build with the set would come in very handy.

The set was expensive and they sold very few of them which was probably a good thing.

 

 

Even when I was at secondary school in the mid 1960s we had radio sources in the physics lab and in the chemistry lab we handled mercury with no great precautions (so we weren't being taught to handle toxins safely which you could argue for) and even got to do the sodium in water experiment ourselves. Nobody wore safety glasses but hey, if a few schoolkids got blinded or worse each year that was their problem.

 

Of course in the US kids as young as twelve get to play with automatic assault rifles kept in their own homes but nothing could possibly go wrong with that.

 

The '60s? We were still doing that stuff at school in the early '80s. Mind you, that may explain a lot about rural Somerset...

[PaulRhB]

(I do have a bit of a smile at the posters suggesting they have been electrocuted... I've always been taught if you're alive, it meant you got an electric shock. If you were electrocuted, it would be your next of kin writing about it)

The original use was death but dictionaries now list it as injury or death ( and they note it's modern usage has expanded)

 

The comment about, "without killing myself on a regular basis", was intended to point out the number of things we are warned will kill us I manage to use daily dodging injury or worse

 

Considering how we struggle to recreate how ancient people worked various substances I don't think we are significantly more intelligent than they were 3000 yrs ago but we do know more about why certain things are dangerous thanks to accidents. No one knew electricity was so dangerous until someone actually tried it, that's why proper education is important.

It's a backward step to restrict that knowledge on things we encounter in everyday life.

I can't remember the terms for it offhand but some learn and retain that knowledge by being told and others by doing, this is where a single approach using textbooks or just using warning signs can fall down.

[dhjgreen]

I am enjoying this thread!  With a background in electronics and having used liquid nitrogen and Hydrofluoric Acid (very nasty indeed) (not together obviously!)

I can't remember the terms for it offhand but some learn and retain that knowledge by being told and others by doing, this is where a single approach using textbooks or just using warning signs can fall down.

Lots of variations on this, but I like

What I hear I forget, what I see I know, what I do I understand

 

Also: reading and writing, visual, auditory, kinesthetic (that's the doing one) (learning styles)

[PaulRhB]

Yes thank you, kinesthetic was the word

The mods have to be wary of potentially dangerous practices being posted because of the aforementioned legalities but I suspect more threads are locked because of the nature of the conversation than the actual content. Social media is a place for discussion and that can include explanations of why it is wrong, arguments about it are different. A 'rant' is subtlety different if the language is kept in check however and expresses the frustration rather than attacking other posters directly.

Considering the number of dangerous fumes we are exposed to using paints, solvents and solders etc modelling would be impossible without understanding those dangers with plenty of reference in here to adequate ventilation. I don't see electricity as any different, post best practice and explain why certain things should be kept apart but don't put a blanket ban on having anything to do with it.

My father and brother are very good electronic engineers but their wiring leaves a fair bit to be desired for fault finding and although how it works largely escapes me I'm better at soldering and making coded and logical wire runs. it slightly frustrates me at work that certain fixes take ages because soldering is required and I have the skill, and better tools as it turns out, but can't touch it as I don't have a qualification. I have the knowledge that I mustn't touch it, if someone is stupid enough to then ignore that knowledge then they get the consequence and can't plead ignorance, (which won't help if it's in court), as the reason they interfered.

[Colin_McLeod]

Pacific231G as 50 years have passed since you got your Atomic Energy Lab you should send off for your replacement radioactive material to see what happens.

[amdaley]

Pacific231G as 50 years have passed since you got your Atomic Energy Lab you should send off for your replacement radioactive material to see what happens.

 

I'd say he probably still glows in the dark