Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

The panelling arrangement is rather similar to that of the early coaches for the SMAR/MSWJR which were built by the Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon in Birmingham except that (some of) the upper panels were recessed. Can the Silhouette cut grooves? if so the lower beading could be represented by a groove filled with round rod of a suitable diameter – I'll let you work that out! More choices than with half-round.

 

It is theoretically possible to apply a two-colour livery with contrasting  'beading' on totally flush sided carriages as the GWR did precisely that between 1922-27. Come to think of it, Hornby also did it on their mainline clerestory coaches, unfortunately. Right pain in the proverbial though...

 

 

 

Richard

 

Richard, was not Joseph Wright's business amalgamated into the Metropolitan C&W?  I may have just made that up, something my mind does from time to time, but, if not, it may explain any resemblance.

 

I had wondered whether the best thing to do with the Hornby corridor clerestories is to use a Silhouette cutter just to produce the beading and to overlay it.  I wonder if anyone has tried that?

 

Just testing, squire, with all this talk of GER coaches did 6wheelers, (gaslit Holden sort of thing), figure in your plans? Pm me with address if you're interested in 4mm drawings.

 

Oh but yes!

 

I have not got as far as positing about "foreign" trains, but the WNR is linked to both the GER and MGN and is, of course, sponsored by the former.

 

Castle Aching Station is being designed so that it can accommodate a short GER tender engine and a string of 6 GE 32' 'modern' (1880s-1890s) 'mainline' 6-wheelers.

 

I will PM you directly.  Thanks.

[Echo]

Joseph Wright's business definitely was a predecessor of the Metropolitan C&W.

[Edwardian]

While this coach is being analysed: what were the little bracket things on the end at waist height?

 

Are they square-socket lamp-irons? I think they must be, because I can't see any other irons, and there are handrails at the corners, presumably to hang onto while changing lamps.

 

Which brings up tail boards. Maybe the WNR is sufficiently conservative to be using some sort of board, rather than lamps "except during the hours of darkness, fog, or falling snow".

 

K

 

I can only assume as you do, Kevin.

 

Now, tail boards, talk to me about tail boards ....

[Echo]

More on Joseph Wright and the Metropolitan Railway Carriage & Wagon Company

 

http://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/history.htm

 

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Joseph_Wright_and_Sons

[ChrisN]

"Richard, was not Joseph Wright's business amalgamated into the Metropolitan C&W?  I may have just made that up, something my mind does from time to time, but, if not, it may explain any resemblance."

 

 

 

Hole in one! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Cammell

[uax6]

I use a scriber from Amy Chromas in my silhouette to produce match boarding. You could certainly stick 10 or 20 thou rod into the grooves to make half round beading.

 

As for the Hornby clerestories, you could overlay them, but you would have to remove all panel details first I would think.

 

As for tail boards, I know of instances (in fairly recent times) of things such as newspapers, and flags being used in lue of tail las when none have been available. Didn't the GER use red targets as tail indicators at one point or am I thinking of another company?

 

Andy g

[Nearholmer]

Indian Railways still use a variant of a "tail board", called a "last vehicle" board, and I think the Isle of Man Railway might still use oval-shaped boards, painted red, with a white border.

 

Some railways used various colours/formats on single-line sections worked by staff-and-ticket, to indicate whether or not another train travelling in the same direction was following.

 

LBSCR used white, diamond-shaped ones with "LV" in black lettering, IIRC.

 

Overall, a lot of trouble to go to in order to economise on lamp oil and wicks, and NBG in tunnels, which is why they died-out, I guess.

 

K

[BG John]

The K&ESR had a dispensation from using a brake van on goods trains, up to a certain number of wagons I think, and used a "LV" board instead.

[wagonman]

Think it may be a link to this thread, post 7

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96937-early-coach-brakes/

 

 

There's a photo of one of the Thirds in Russell Vol.1 (page 15) so the sketch in Jonathan's other thread is 'accurate'.

 

 

Richard

[wagonman]

Richard, was not Joseph Wright's business amalgamated into the Metropolitan C&W?  I may have just made that up, something my mind does from time to time, but, if not, it may explain any resemblance.

 

 

 

 

Indeed it was, along with a few others..

[Edwardian]

There's a photo of one of the Thirds in Russell Vol.1 (page 15) so the sketch in Jonathan's other thread is 'accurate'.

 

 

Richard

 

 So there is, and some great pictures of other "narrow gauge" Wrights on the preceding pages - page 13's are particularly crisp - showing that half-round beading nicely.

[corneliuslundie]

Sorry about the photo. Yes, the drawing was the one referred to in the text. And thanks for the pointer to the drawing in Russell.I hadn't noticed it before but it certainly is very similar. I'll try to post the photo of my models again.

Jonathan

[corneliuslundie]

In reply to the query about the origin of the drawing, here is an edited version of the text I wrote for Welsh Railways Archive some time ago:

"In the Locomotive Magazine in 1915 [15 November] an article was published entitled “The Rhymney Ry. and its engines”.On page 202 this was illustrated with a drawing of No 7 (a 2-4-0 tender engine) and three coaches. The caption describes them as “original coaches” and the text says they were built by Messrs Williams, of Goswell-road, London. . . . 

"Chris Sambrook’s book notes that Williams of Glasshouse Yard, Goswell Street, was listed as a coach builder in the early 1830s and subsequently fulfilled orders for the Great Northern Railway, finishing much of the stock in varnished teak. The RR Directors’ minutes record that the coaches from C C Williams would be built to

the style of the GNR carriages."

I hope this helps. I asked for some help from the GNRS about the relevant carriages but I don't think they could find anything.

Jonathan

[uax6]

The Highland used to have boards on the lamp irons of the leading engine that read 'engine following' to show the bobbies that an extra loco or train was running behind the booked train.

 

Andy G

[ChrisN]

Sorry about the photo. Yes, the drawing was the one referred to in the text. And thanks for the pointer to the drawing in Russell.I hadn't noticed it before but it certainly is very similar. I'll try to post the photo of my models again.

Jonathan

RR carriages small.JPG

 

Jonathan,

Are these scratchbuilt?  They are certainly very good.  I could not find the thread where you said how you did these.

Edited May 26, 2016 by ChrisN

[Donw]

The Severn and Wye in the Forest of Dean would use a branch across the buffers on the colliery lines if there was no Brake van something Ian Pope would replicate on his exhibition layouts.

 

One could lose oneself following all these fascinating links.

Don

[Nearholmer]

Very Teutonic.

 

The traditional way of signing a "last vehicle" on German torfbahnen is to hack the branch from a tree, and stick it in the back of the final wagon. This isn't so that a signalman can check for the last vehicle (there are no signalmen), but so that the driver can look back down the rake, and check whether or not he still has all the wagons jogging along behind. Quite often, some wagons detach, or tumble over sideways, so it is a useful precaution.

 

I've seen exactly the same done in Ireland, where a lot of the turf railway technology originally came from Germany as much as a century ago.

 

K

[corneliuslundie]

Yes, the carriages are scratch built. Nothing fancy, just plastic sheet and strip, etched W irons, some carved about axle boxes and the nearest I could manage from bits, pieces and steel heads for the buffers. Only one vehicle has brakes, and they are an early design, though quite popular with the LNWR at one time, again cobbled up from bits and pieces. The lettering was a bit of an experiment, done on the computer, printed out and stuck in the panels. That would not have worked with panels with rounded corners, and in fact I had a job matching the printed colour to the paint. Just don't look too carefully.

They were done as a bit of fun, as they had gone long before 1912, my modelling period for the Rhymney. Then, so had some of the 1870s wagons I have built.

But here am I hijacking Edwardian's thread again. My only excuse is that Williams of Goswell Road was quite a prolific supplier at that time, and even acted as contractor running a couple of lines - though unlike Savin he didn't build railways.

There is a bit about LB&SCR last vehicle boards in the new HMRS book "Southern Style Part 2. LB&SCR, now available in limited numbers (while awaiting the hand assembly of more paint colour swatch cards). But I suppose this information should really be in Edwardian's other thread.

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

They are excellent carriages, Jonathan, and I hope to emulate them.  I don't think you are the slightest bit off topic, by the way, and here I find the sort of hi-jackers that take me only to the most rewarding of unexpected places.

 

I like to think of this as I think of, say, a Haydn string quartet; an elegant conversation, productive of both wit and profundity.

 

But, then again, I do talk a lot of B*ll*cks.

[Donw]

Sometimes things can be very fruitful. I admired a horse drawn carriage on a thread and asked whether it was local to an area or whether one might of been seen at Dolgelley and was rewarded by a set of photos taken of the buildings at Dolgelley. How much nicer than those threads that seem to descend to personal abuse.

Don 

[Nick Holliday]

Indian Railways still use a variant of a "tail board", called a "last vehicle" board, and I think the Isle of Man Railway might still use oval-shaped boards, painted red, with a white border.

 

Some railways used various colours/formats on single-line sections worked by staff-and-ticket, to indicate whether or not another train travelling in the same direction was following.

 

LBSCR used white, diamond-shaped ones with "LV" in black lettering, IIRC.

 

Overall, a lot of trouble to go to in order to economise on lamp oil and wicks, and NBG in tunnels, which is why they died-out, I guess.

 

K

I'm afraid your recollection may not be correct.  The LBSC LV board usually was rectangular, and I think red with white letters, as per attached.

 

Apropos the coach discussion, I am not sure if I am going away from the current discussions, but 5&9 Models have done (do?) white metal kits for LBSC early coaches, including open ones, with many, although based upon Brighton prototypes, very similar to other lines' stock. Two sets of etchings, including cast parts, were prepared for, I think, the South West Circle, each containing 4 coaches which seem identical to typical Wright products, (and LBSC types) and these turn up occasionally on eBay or on second-hand stalls.  More recently, at ExpoEM, I saw Prickly Pear's latest products, some exquisite etched four-wheelers, based upon Great North of Scotland prototypes, but again redolent of other lines of that early period.

[Nearholmer]

Thanks Nick.

 

Where did I get the diamond shaped white ones from then???? Maybe I shall never know.

 

Anyway, its good to stand on the platform at Havant, anticipating a ride to Hayling Island. If I catch that train, I can probably go to visit a young version of my late Great Grandfather, who was a seriously competent model-engineer.

 

Below you can see him, and the youngest of my Great Aunts, outside Havant station in May 1944, when he was in his early 60s.

 

K

Edited May 26, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

On the subject of elderly GER coaching stock, could I draw your attention to this:https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=great+eastern+railway+brake+van&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=imsvn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=BNqSudcAAA9AbM%253A%252CHMoLwvuqduCbQM%252C_%253BB27NFXXMj54xKM%253A%252Cr1qJ-pUbP56NJM%252C_%253B-6VlHncto2tL_M%253A%252Cyw6H70n21GbQcM%252C_%253B3Vg7OQwPuehShM%253A%252CcPJjBmYkXpQqRM%252C_%253BTNwHDuJ19SBdhM%253A%252CvtfYWSKiv-_6wM%252C_%253BuCSD9SUNwpfdSM%253A%252CQoGGCo0ffQU1kM%252C_%253B63HP-lo_MoZNMM%253A%252CRhjcAm8aSVi9WM%252C_%253BNCh4tPzGUhbjTM%253A%252CXdVtg9rCgPJrZM%252C_%253BoQwEo2ndxgoLeM%253A%252CQbVGTYXFwU5CcM%252C_%253BG6qT2sd7vEjyQM%253A%252CU1VaVByX1YrBHM%252C_&usg=__FYyT3dQIKGZO-L9EDH8CnLEDS1I%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB3Z675ffMAhUsLMAKHfmIDzIQsAQIGg&biw=1024&bih=704#hl=en-gb&tbm=isch&q=great+eastern+railway+brake+van+1983+7954&imgrc=STedmcXDPFssNM%3A

[Stubby47]

Half round beading : 

 

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/evergreen-half-round.html

[Edwardian]

Thanks Nick.

 

Where did I get the diamond shaped white ones from then???? Maybe I shall never know.

 

Anyway, its good to stand on the platform at Havant, anticipating a ride to Hayling Island. If I catch that train, I can probably go to visit a young version of my late Great Grandfather, who was a seriously competent model-engineer.

 

Below you can see him, and the youngest of my Great Aunts, outside Havant station in May 1944, when he was in his early 60s.

 

K

 

We are not going to let the fact that we have yet to achieve final victory over Nazi tyranny stop us enjoying this fine example of model engineering.

 

It's the little things like this that remind me of the harmless but important reasons to be proud of this country and that Britain is more than a moaning, xenophobic Daily Mail editorial.