Scorpio 7mm 51XX by PAD

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Hi Peter,

In one of your pictures above there is a glimpse of your brothers layout, any chance of a more expanded look? The p/way part of his layout looks spot on.

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

I'm sure he will be pleased to hear that. I'll see what I can do.

Cheers,

Peter

[Horsetan]

...By the way somebody mentioned not painting it. Looks great after you clean it, but a day later it's tarnished already.

 

I've got to stop drooling at this sort of thing.

[ozzyo]

Here's how I held the whistles while soldering them to the etched bracket. Just drilled a couple of hole into the edge of a piece wood and then pushed the whistles pipes into the wood through the bracket.

 

Here's one in place.

20160506_083750-1.jpg

 

And after soldering.

20160506_085019-1.jpg

 

And on the firebox.

 

20160507_133625-1.jpg

 

Next the bogie. As it comes in the kit it's simplified and lacks detail.

However from normal viewing angles you can't see much. Here's a shot from rail level.

20160507_133429-1-1.jpg

 

This is the real thing. Nov-2010-update-19_348px-1.jpg

 

Not much point in scratch building all that gubbins on top of the truck when it won't be seen, so this is my compromise.

All I've done is add some spare etchings of a similar shape to the cross members, plus a couple of slabs of lead to add weight. I will add another layer and also a thick brass washer to the pivot hole, to make it easier the make a shouldered 8BA bolt to fix it.

20160507_135645-1.jpg

 

And a close up from the side with the bogie in place.

20160507_134950-1.jpg

 

And the rear guard irons.

 

On the rails on my brother's layout.

20160507_133136-1.jpg

 

By the way somebody mentioned not painting it. Looks great after you clean it, but a day later it's tarnished already.

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

Hello PAD (Peter),

 

a very nice looking build, I think that this shows what can be achieved with a middle range kit if you have the time and passion to improve the the kit.

 

A couple of small points (if I may), the guard irons, normally have the flat face to the outside (facing front or rear) and are also above the middle of the rail head. In your photo of the front pony (it can't be a bogie as it only has one axle). The guards are way to far above the railhead, on the real thing they are only about 1" above the rail (so about 1.7mm in 7mm). Also the shape that you have don't look right when you compare it to the prototype photo (Nov-2010-update-19 348px-1 jpg) . The real one has a small bend just below the frame that brings the guard iron to about the inside of the wheel then you get the second pair of bends starting at approx. 9" above the rail head to bring the guard irons above the rail head. 

 

The rear ones IIRC would not have been of the same shape as these were mounted to the loco frames and not mounted to the radial axle boxs.

 

Yes you can (or could) get clear etch primer, precision paint did one years ago, it work well but you could not see where you had sprayed it!  

 

ATB

 

OzzyO.     

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Hello Ozzy,

Good to see you posting again.

 

All good points that you raise about the guard irons. Will have a fiddle with them and get them as best I can. Trouble is, now that they are on I keep knocking them during handling when working on other areas.

 

As for calling the pony truck a bogie, I must have had my brain out of gear when I wrote that.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Back to the build.

Here's the injector castings that come with the kit. Not the best but good enough as they go behind the cab steps.

 

I tinned them to solder to the steps but then wasn't happy with the piping and also they should be on a bracket. Here's one with pipes cut off and the other ready to be fixed on. The lower flange was not on the casting so I cobbled one up from a large 12 BA nut turned in the mini drill.

 

And in place. Soldered the brackets to the steps, and the pipes to the inside of the balance pipe, both with 145.

 

Next the steam heating and brake pipes. Both castings are not bad but the handle on the steam pipe is very stubby, so I soldered on a longer one. Here's a before and after shot.

 

And in place.

 

Then on to the cab interior. The rear cab doors can be modelled open if desired but I decided to have them closed. As with the 57XX I had to make the locking mechanism and hinges and add some brass "angle iron" either side. I also added the fire iron "hook" to the shelf on the left, and the L shaped bracket on the right. I assume this was to guard against the fireman touching the hot end accidentally after use. All these bits and pieces had to be made from scratch.

The tool boxes as supplied are both the large type when there should be a smaller one on the left. Here they are with one having been cut to shorten.

 

And modified. I went a bit mad here and made the loop for the hasp, but thought better of trying to make the padlocks.

 

 

And in place. The tool boxes are only placed for the photo, as there is more detail to be soldered to the front edge of the shelf. Easier if the boxes are not in the way.

 

Back to some outside stuff. Made the breather pipe in the bunker from some copper wire with the brackets from waste etch. Added a nice cast brass flange from the PRC sprue, but it's right up tight against the corner of the bunker and difficult to clean up. Still it's there.

 

Finally added the door stops with some flat brass section. It should be an angled strip riveted to the rear of the tank but it's too small to do that.

 

I've cleaned off the excess solder since this photo and you can also see the injector fitted as per the instructions before I modified it.

 

And more cab interior stuff. The kit brake standard is white metal but usable. However I got a better one from Hobbyhorse which is for a tender, so I had to make the bracket to fit it to the cab side. Also replaced the reversing lever with a brass casting from Warren Shephard. It doesn't have the notches for locking the lever, so I added these with the piercing saw.

 

And placed in the cab. Starting to look quite cosy.

 

Last but not least the cab shutters are now on.

Cheers,

Peter

[steve fay]

Looking fantastic Peter

[mswjr]

Peter,I had  a trip to toddington today (sunday) and the prairie tank was running,That had the angled toolbox between the 2 lockers also ,so they may all have them,The driver did not know what it was for originally ,but most GWR tank and tender locos had a large toolbox on the outside,prairies do not ,so that inside one may be the toolbox.

[Scadaboy]

Fantastic work and detail........Kudos to you sir!!

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Peter,I had  a trip to toddington today (sunday) and the prairie tank was running,That had the angled toolbox between the 2 lockers also ,so they may all have them,The driver did not know what it was for originally ,but most GWR tank and tender locos had a large toolbox on the outside,prairies do not ,so that inside one may be the toolbox.

Many thanks for that. So at the moment it's 2-1 in favour of no middle toolbox based on preserved examples. The 41XX and 61XX at Didcot don't have it. I had a PM from OzzyO and he found one illustration in a GW Journal showing the extra box, but looking at the instructions for the 4mm kit on the Brassmasters web site, Martin Finney did not include it. I sent a mail to Lee Marsh but he did not respond, so I have tried Malcolm Mitchell to see if he can throw any light on it.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[DLT]

Lovely modelling Peter,

Cheers, Dave.

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Well following some correspondence with a few people including Malcolm Mitchell, I have decided to go with only two tool boxes. Despite being on the works drawing and the works photo of 5105, it is not clear if the middle toolbox was generally applied so I'm leaving it off. So on with the boiler back plate.

 

The castings are not the best but considering the enclosed cab more than adequate. The backplate casting comes with a flange around the outer edge and is also too short. Here it is with piece of brass soldered to the bottom to increase the height.

 

And after removing the flange and filling some of the imperfections with 70 C solder

 

And with the various parts and piping added. It's far from perfect but good enough.

 

The backplate is soldered to a thin piece of brass so that the the gauges fixed to the front plate can included as one unit. I will paint this separately and add the dials before fixing it in the cab after the loco is painted. The brake standard and reversing lever will also be painted separately and added later. The water tank guage is from Hobbyhorse and the AW warning bell is from the kit. The injector operating levers either side of the coal hole are made from scratch. Here's a few shots with the loose bits added.

 

 

Next some final detailing at the front end. I've added the pipes from the brake and steam heating along the front edges of the frames, the ATC shoe and the drain cocks operating levers.

This last shot should be with the cab shots above but I've got it in the wrong place and can't seem to move it! It shows the injector levers and seats.

 

I decided the rear sandboxes were not correctly positioned, being tight up against the balance pipe and also not far enough out from the frames. Managed to remove them and reposition with a spacer between them and the etched bracket without destroying the operating levers.

Here they are refitted.

 

And with the body on.

 

And now the most important stage - the motor/gearbox and pick ups. As can be seen from this shot of the underside of the frames, there's very little chance to put the pick ups at the bottom.

However, the running plate support brackets between the middle and rear drivers are nicely positioned to add a mounting point for some wipers.

The front drivers were a little more tricky to deal with, but the frames have a prototypical hole at axle high right behind the wheel rims. With this it was possible to mount some wipers on the spacer acting through the holes onto the rims.

 

And spinning on the rollers.

 

I have also chemically blackened and fitted the couplings and repositioned the "chains" for the steam heating pipes. I've added the stowage hook for the couplings just below the right hand buffer stocks, front and rear, but it's not easy to stow the couplings as the shackles don't rotate . That pretty much concludes the build apart from the painting and lining etc.

 

It's been an enjoyable kit to build despite the faults which were all easily correctable. Despite the 50 quid or so upgrading the castings it's still very good value at current selling price.

Here's a few shots on the tracks.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[steve fay]

Absolutely superb!

[Johng]

Pete,

 

A masterclass to say the least,truly superb work and taking this model to a new level. well done and an inspiration. Johng

[Horsetan]

It's so clean you could eat your dinner off it. 

[hobbyhorse]

It certainly looks the part, great work.

 

Simon

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It certainly looks the part, great work.

 

Simon

Hello Simon,

Thanks to you and the other guys who have replied with favourable comments.

 

I have to say your excellent Hobbyhorse castings have played a big part in the result achieved. I used your buffers, smokebox dart, top feed/safety valves, brake standard and water level gauge. The two latter items needed some slight modification as they are tender parts.

 

Warren Shephard, PRC and JLTRT also provided some excellent replacement parts. I think we 7mm modellers are very lucky to have a number of suppliers making very high quality after market castings. Although it adds to the cost of low to mid range kits, it gives the modeller the opportunity of achieving a much better result than would otherwise be possible. Thanks again.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[mswjr]

I do like reading your build threads Peter,so what might be the next loco on your list,please

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I do like reading your build threads Peter,so what might be the next loco on your list,please

Thanks.

 

No idea at the moment. I've got the 51XX to paint and line as 4134, plus a LY Pug, Caledonian Pug and an Avonside 0-4-0 to paint, plus an LMS 4F to weather. However, if I can get to the Guild show at Doncaster, no doubt one of those unscrupulous kit manufacturers will probably force me to buy something.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Just got back from Doncaster where apart from buying a few bits and bobs I managed not to put any dents in my bank balance.

 

After a good spell on the rollers and performing well on my brother's layout, I decided to take the prairie for a run on the test track.

 

A quick run up and down the straight suggested all was in order so off we went for a spin. Things quickly went downhill with the loco stalling on the bend for no obvious reason. My initial thought was that if was a fault with the track, but a quick examination revealed that one of the rear driving wheels nuts had worked loose and the wheel was wobbling! Much as I tried it could not get the ground to open up and swallow me. Fortunately I went prepared and had a few tools to hand including the alen key to tighten the nut.

 

After that it ran beautifully both at speed and crawling with about 20 wagons behind it. Starting from a crawl was also no problem on track that is far from perfect. I took some video footage but I have no idea how to post it.

 

One of the demo stands had a couple of Finney examples and it compared very well to them so I was very pleased.

 

On to the paint shop now.

Cheers,

Peter

[Jon Fitness]

Aw. Missed that!

JF

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The body is now primed in grey acid etch from Halfords and I've got some black acid etch on order for the chassis. The grey goes on very nicely and covers well with a nice smooth finish.

For the top coats I've got some black in stock but I need to get some Ford Laurel Green or Rover Brooklands Green which I will apply with the airbrush after diluting with cellulose thinners.

Cheers,

Peter

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And now in BR Green. It's Halfords Ford Laurel Green diluted 1:1 with cellulose and applied with the airbrush. I mixed 20 ml paint with 20 ml cellulose and still had enough left to fill an empty Tamiya paint jar.

Sorry for the poor cropping but it was the only way to resize them so I could upload from the phone.

 

Here's a trio of pugs in etch primer going through the "paint shop" at the moment. There's also a couple of coaches but the image is too big load.

 

And then there's this Derby lightweight to do as well when my brother strips it down.

Cheers,

Peter

[Jintyman]

Who's kit is the Derby Lightweight, it looks fabulous.

 

Beautiful work on the 51xx, just stunning.

Paint color is always an individuals perception, but from the Halfords car colors I find that Land Rover Coniston Green is the nearest to BR Std Green to my eyes.

If you use cellulose paint as I do, for other colors there is a Midlands company that do railway colors that match Railmatch but in cellulose. There is a thread on Western Thunder about it somewhere.

 

Jinty

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Thanks Jintyman,

The Derby Lightweight is from a much modified Westdale kit. My brother has made a fantastic job of it, so I hope my painting can match his workmanship.

 

Regarding the Halfords Laurel Green, I have used it before and am quite happy with the shade it gives. It may well be that the Coniston Green is closer to BR Green, but how long would a loco run in the original shade after it left the works? The effects of sun, weather, cleaning with oily rags, more weathering and cleaning, etc, etc, would all serve to alter the shade from how it looked after application at the painting stage. I'm sure I would be quite happy with Coniston Green, but without being able to compare it side by side with a loco painted with Laurel Green, I believe it would just look the same to me. One of the Finney models I saw at Doncaster was in BR lined Green. To my eye in the lighting conditions at the show it looked too blue going from memory (although colour memory is relatively poor), but I would be perfectly happy with it. It was painted by Ian Rathbone who I believe prefers Rover Deep Bronze Green for BR Green.The bottom line is that it is very subjective and in the end down to personal preference. Adding the orange lining will give a different perspective to the shade, and of course the weathering will actually change it.

 

Anyway, here's some further progress. I have airbrushed some of the black on the body and got the chassis in black etch primer as well. Couldn't resist popping the copper cap on the chimney for the photo.

Cheers,

Peter

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Been cracking on with the brush painting of the black areas. I have some Tamiya acrylic to hand so gave it a try on the underside to see how well it brushes on. It's not a good as Humbrol black 85 used to be but I decided to give it a try along the running plate edges etc. I also used it to do the inside of the bunker. It's quite glossy the same as the Halfords black done with the airbrush, but I will be dulling it down with varnish after the lining is applied (Fox).

 

The downside with acrylic is once it's on and dry it's impossible to get off. I managed to get some on the tank side and did not realise until after it was dry. The only option was to over spray the area with green. I did that with the needle stopped with the preset and lowering the pressure. It was very dull compared to the rest so I over sprayed the whole tank side with neat cellulose to level it up. Works a treat. Thanks to Ian Rathbone for mentioning it in his book. I also undercoated the buffers in white ready for top coating in red.

Cheers,

Peter