Flying Scotsman trip cancelled

[Bert Cheese]

There were numerous reports of Trespass around the Chandler's Ford area today...

 

If they were local folk it won't be a problem, any fines levied would be claimed back as a business expense by Monday lunchtime!

[russ p]

I like the BR livery but would prefer it to look like this

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a3+br+livery&client=tablet-android-google&prmd=isnv&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=mZDrUuOUcz3jaM%253A%252CoOOb61zx-yCd2M%252C_%253BKAvMWJ2AsCbI9M%253A%252CmLL6C4mfNAfeIM%252C_%253BV-9BgkfIqm76yM%253A%252CoOOb61zx-yCd2M%252C_%253Bphz7X_AQ5KhI-M%253A%252CakdkLhCVp2q4lM%252C_%253BvZRCTNGpLNMDoM%253A%252CUMSczcb37Cnn1M%252C_%253BOLier7DNqES_nM%253A%252CakdkLhCVp2q4lM%252C_%253BuFhu0r6NoFvJXM%253A%252CyHc0zNAkXqFzPM%252C_%253BixEDOnOusUFLxM%253A%252CJX8PcRF12kngMM%252C_%253Bv8aF5HM_X08XUM%253A%252CVxxWyiUUvwOawM%252C_%253BR-mqLMDwwjPuBM%253A%252CLelvVhb4jpvb3M%252C_&usg=__w0yG9Wt6oO4dlEacafKAEXw1nSY%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPvZ60nezMAhUqKsAKHRAYAM4QsAQIGg&biw=600&bih=960#tbm=isch&q=60103+br+livery&imgrc=JyqBiy1dhDMOzM%3A

[brianusa]

Well 20 people's details taken by BTP today at two locations. Quite pleasant atmosphere at the three places I was present for it passing with no problems and chatting about why we were out on patrol.

 

"Details were taken", love that expression!  If it were here tear gas would probably have been used, crowds would protest, ethnic groups would picket and phone videos would be on the TV.  More news at ten!

 

Also, isn't it about time the diesel was taken off so we can see how good it really is?

 

Brian.

[PhilH]

"Details were taken", love that expression!  If it were here tear gas would probably have been used, crowds would protest, ethnic groups would picket and phone videos would be on the TV.  More news at ten!

 

Also, isn't it about time the diesel was taken off so we can see how good it really is?

 

Brian.

Depends what set is used...for instance the set we had last week required ETH so had to have a diesel on the back end. When supplying power for ETH only apparently the traction motors are isolated but the enginse still has to work leading the armchair brigade to wrongly surmise that the diesel is doing most of the work.

Also depending on location there can be some complicated manoevres to get trains in the right place for return trips, locos off for servicing etc. Last week we had to be towed from Southampton to Eastleigh to get the loco serviced and the train in the right order as per owners wishes for the return trip. We couldn't have done it without the skip on the back.

[Dunsignalling]

And it seems that 36E was Newark as well, so how are we to tell the difference?

Shed codes got changed around for various reasons, usually other sheds closing or regional or administrative boundary changes so, in some cases, may be date-specific. Newark is listed as a sub-shed to 36E Retford in the 1956 Loco-shed book but isn't mentioned at all in the 1959 edition (closed in the meantime?).

 

It got much more complicated elsewhere, e.g. Salisbury had been 72B and part of the Exeter District but later became 70E and part of the London District..  All the other 72 District sheds were subsequently transferred to the Western Region with 72A Exmouth Junction becoming 83D. Plymouth (Laira) which had previously been 83D, in turn became 84A which had been Wolverhampton (Stafford Road) but the code was re-used after the original 84 District sheds were transferred to the London Midland region.

 

Phew.

 

J.

[PaulRhB]

The diesel was there purely because of the operational requirements for the two shunts at Salisbury and the turning move round Laverstock loop. It never powered when Scotsman was leading so it actually added to the spectacle climbing the banks in the wet.

Bringing the 47 down separately would have been a logistical problem and some of the timings were very tight if they'd had to keep hooking it up.

Because of the layout at Salisbury you can only access the reception and yard by reversing out west with that length train as the shunt neck to the east is restricted at present as sleepers need replacing and a steam loco might be too heavy for it. While you can propel out in the station it's slower for safety and there were likely to be more moves required in the yard to tank the loco and coaches. It was expedient for that and essential for the move round Laverstock as that was outside station limits so propelling wasn't allowed.

Climbing the bank at Alderbury

 

And thanks to my Dad Langford

 

And approaching the tunnel leaving Salisbury

[russ p]

Depends what set is used...for instance the set we had last week required ETH so had to have a diesel on the back end. When supplying power for ETH only apparently the traction motors are isolated but the enginse still has to work leading the armchair brigade to wrongly surmise that the diesel is doing most of the work.

Also depending on location there can be some complicated manoevres to get trains in the right place for return trips, locos off for servicing etc. Last week we had to be towed from Southampton to Eastleigh to get the loco serviced and the train in the right order as per owners wishes for the return trip. We couldn't have done it without the skip on the back.

I wouldn't think the traction motors are isolated Phil, the rear driver can isolate the deadman so he doesn't have to keep his foot on it. If it's in engine only and the loco is moving it will dump the brake.

The good thing about having a diesel ETHing on the back is that if there is a problem it can provide traction more or less instantly

[petethemole]

A red light at Swaythling led to a slow approach and stop. The preceding CC Voyager had also been held and then had to make the Airport Parkway stop.  There may have been some trespass north of Swaythling. The assembled multitudes got a good look at her and a brief slip on wet rail made the restart interesting.

 

I got several good pics, this is the best:

 

 

The round student block in the background is known locally as The Fag Butt.

 

There's a video on YouTube showing the slip.

 

I hadn't seen her since she left KX on 14/1/63.

 

Pete

 

 

[royaloak]

Depends what set is used...for instance the set we had last week required ETH so had to have a diesel on the back end. When supplying power for ETH only apparently the traction motors are isolated but the enginse still has to work leading the armchair brigade to wrongly surmise that the diesel is doing most of the work.

Also depending on location there can be some complicated manoevres to get trains in the right place for return trips, locos off for servicing etc. Last week we had to be towed from Southampton to Eastleigh to get the loco serviced and the train in the right order as per owners wishes for the return trip. We couldn't have done it without the skip on the back.

But supplying ETH wont compress the buffers between the (trailing) diesel and rear coach or cause the revs to rise and fall will it! 

 

Personally I dont have a problem with the diesel helping the steamer away from a station or on the hilly bits (as long as the steamer is doing its bit of course) because otherwise it would probably end up late, timetables are a bit more intensive nowadays with very little margin for late running, and no amount of wining from the purists will change that.

[PhilH]

Historically LSL have worked more closely with DBS, now DBC. We are doing more work with WCRC as they run out of traction options, but, for interest this is a DBC steam trained driver's take on things.

 

'Forget assistance, DBC management would take a dim view of us giving assistance on the rear of a train except for laid down locations and emergencies. Laid down locations would be in the sectional appendix of the rule book, or any officially agreed working due to special circumstances of an individual train. Generally if a 67 is in the consist, on the rear of a train, it will be isolated and shut down. If it is required for train ETH requirements the loco will obviously need to be running, and the 'head end' power (ETH) running. In this circumstance the loco 'must' have a driver on the loco. The loco would be be 'isolated for towing', no power to the traction motor's would be possible. This was the case Sunday. There is a way that a 67 can be set up to provide power on the rear, but the driver would need to keep the loco's master switch in the direction required, the deadmans would need to be depressed (SFF every 90 seconds) and the AWS will be going off every signal. Which set up would you choose!

The change over between the two can not be done on the move.

Also, as I mentioned earlier on this thread, a 67 when operating ETH is running at quite high engine revs. They are quite regularly mistaken for applying power. Even railway people have been caught out, including inspectors.'

[russ p]

67s are different Phil. On those the E70 valve is isolated rather than a dsd. This then stops the loco applying power.

From what I've heard from WCRC drivers if a diesel is provided it only applies power when absolutely necessary. A 67 by the way will rev up when providing ETH

[Guest]

My footage of her tour on the 21st. You can hear, the duff is working above idle as the tour restarts on the bank towards Chandler's Ford, but not by much.

 

 

Regards,

Matt

[Mallard60022]

My footage of her tour on the 21st. You can hear, the duff is working above idle as the tour restarts on the bank towards Chandler's Ford, but not by much.

 

 

Regards,

Matt

Thanks. Got a good look at the roof detail on that ER Dining car. Just enough shove so that FS didn't need the sanders and we wouldn't want the posh end diners spilling their chilled Chardonnay would we? 

Pity about the weather down there. 

Phil

[russ p]

I don't actually reckon it is, they sound a bit throatier when they have a decent ETH load on but it stays at 375 rpm and remember an ETH 47 idles 50 rpm higher than a no heat one

[PaulRhB]

Certainly wasn't powering up Alderbury bank.

[Jim Martin]

I spent all day today going through old issues of the Railway Magazine in Liverpool Central Library, where I found this in the February 1996 edition:

 

 

Seems t'was ever thus...

 

Jim

[Richard E]

FS is out and about today visiting Shalford and based at London Victoria. Times have been published in a local London newspaper and on that basis I am happy to link to http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59500/2016/05/25/advanced (1Z82) and also http://realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59501/2016/05/25/advanced (1Z84).

 

Interesting as she was supposed to be running to Ely, it is the cancellation of that run over trespass fears (initially it was only part cancelled) that prompted me to start this thread!

[ColinK]

Perhaps the NRM should learn from railway modellers and renumber and rename Flying Scotsman, to something less well known. Then the masses wouldn't go out to see it.

[stewartingram]

Flying Scotchman?

 

 

Stewart

[Zomboid]

Flying Scotch Egg

[Mallard60022]

Choice of the other A3s that had the German style Smoke Deflectors fitted. They could then sell the number plate(s) like the A1 Trust does with Tornado's plates after a special run. If they used wooden nameplates then they would not be that expensive so they could sell those (two being available of course each time). I'd probably buy an appropriate one for nostalgiic reasons.

Trouble is that the trains are filled with 'the public' because it is FS that is the loco at the front. I doubt the trains would be very popular if another A3 was 'advertised'. 

Don't know how they could work that.

To be serious I don't think there is an answer to the trespass problem other than arrests and large fines that are really well publicised/made high profile on TV/in the 'popular press' and I don't want to get into that discussion yet again.

P

[roythebus]

Maybe change the law on railways in the UK having to be fenced in. Millions of miles of railways round the world aren't fenced in and don't seem quite so paranoid about such matters. Yes, people get killed by trains where there's no fences, tough titties, it's their fault for being there. Sad on the drivers though and the poor souls who have to clear up the bits afterwards, but thousands of miles of fencing here doesn't prevent trespass or people being hit by trains.

[Reorte]

Maybe change the law on railways in the UK having to be fenced in. Millions of miles of railways round the world aren't fenced in and don't seem quite so paranoid about such matters. Yes, people get killed by trains where there's no fences, tough titties, it's their fault for being there. Sad on the drivers though and the poor souls who have to clear up the bits afterwards, but thousands of miles of fencing here doesn't prevent trespass or people being hit by trains.

Huh? When people are putting themselves in daft positions even where the railways are fenced in then removing it would only make it worse. Look at the pictures, sadly it's not being paranoid. The fences might not prevent all trespass or people being hit but who knows how much worse it would be without them?

 

Besides there's an awful lot of livestock in fields next to railways so fences are needed for those too.

[PaulRhB]

Fences, level crossings, do not pass this point boards, traffic lights they are all pretty simple in concept but people ignore them because they are in a hurry or need to be there. We can't actually stop all these idiots so we have laws to deal with them. That's the way the world is and removing safety systems will only add to the problem as others who are held in check by a bit of moral guilt will then plough on.

[PhilH]

Given the scale of the problem atm with this thing I am surprised that they are letting it into third rail territory. I'm not convinced that a lot of people actually understand the significance of the extra rail and am even more surprised that a trespasser hasn't touched one yet.