Flying Scotsman trip cancelled

[peanuts]

I think it is a combination of several factors that make some people put themselves in harms way.

 

Modern life is very much about instant gratification. TV, video games and even modern cameras add to this illusion that one must have this experience at almost any cost.

 

It is also a sad fact that all of the UK's railway network is in no way designed for such experiences.

 

To get the very best view and therefore picture, one must inevitably have no-one in front of you and in order to get that 'once in a lifetime' shot or just view the object one almost has to be creative with positioning.

 

Since one is looking to see an event that is quite short in duration and involves moving objects, that desire to be in the right place at the right time might well overpower a native caution and cause one to make decisions and perhaps follow someone else who seems to know what they are doing ( but actually doesn't ), into a position of grave danger.

brings back memories of this for me there will always be idiots who just have to get tooo close ! 

[RBAGE]

brings back memories of this for me there will always be idiots who just have to get tooo close ! 

Lunatics

[Peter Kazmierczak]

For 99% of the general public, the Flying Scotsman is the most famous train / steam loco in the world. For many, it's the ONLY train / steam loco they've ever heard of.

 

Surely NR must've realised that this was going to be a high profile event so should've pulled-out all the stops to ensure it ran smoothly, with all documentation in place in a timely manner, even if another train operator was involved and it wasn't all NR's fault.

 

Afraid I've no sympathy for NR's lack of professionalism over this. Surely they knew they'd get slated by the public and media over this (now) non-event in the Scottish Borders.

 

Maybe just a minor cock-up to some, but to the public they might well be left wondering that if NR can't get a small thing like this right, then what about more everyday work and larger projects?

[beast66606]

The FS trip is back on

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-36292966

 

The Flying Scotsman will be allowed to run on the Borders Railway and Forth Bridge on Sunday after a climbdown by Network Rail.

Excursion operators were told on Friday the trip must be cancelled because it could not be sure the engine was suitable for the line.

Scottish Transport Minister Derek Mackay said Network Rail had now reversed the decision.

He had earlier branded the cancellation a "debacle" and called for an inquiry.

[stewartingram]

If it is back on, then surely NR deserve some congratulations for sorting things out so rapidly then? Or is it just that the done thing is to knock someone when they are down?

 

Stewart

[bertiedog]

Glad it's back on, hopefully heads will roll at Network Rail over this......

 

Stephen.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Where there's a will there's a way............

 

Glad that common sense (and some rapid re-evaluation of things) prevailed.

[darrel]

There have been many similar cancellations in the past but because they didn't involve the famous flying Scotsman they went under the radar. However this became big news top news story in Scotland, the local council up in arms because they had all sorts of local events, and even the transport minister got involved publicly calling network rail incompetent.

Network Rail then managed to do in just a few hours what they had not been able to do in 12 weeks. I rather suspect a few people got dragged over the coals by senior management, who presumably had been dragged over the coals by the transport minister. However the reputational damage to network rail had already been done.

[bertiedog]

What reputation has Network Rail got?

 

Stephen.

[The Stationmaster]

For 99% of the general public, the Flying Scotsman is the most famous train / steam loco in the world. For many, it's the ONLY train / steam loco they've ever heard of.

 

Surely NR must've realised that this was going to be a high profile event so should've pulled-out all the stops to ensure it ran smoothly, with all documentation in place in a timely manner, even if another train operator was involved and it wasn't all NR's fault.

 

Afraid I've no sympathy for NR's lack of professionalism over this. Surely they knew they'd get slated by the public and media over this (now) non-event in the Scottish Borders.

 

Maybe just a minor cock-up to some, but to the public they might well be left wondering that if NR can't get a small thing like this right, then what about more everyday work and larger projects?

 

In respect of your final question I refer you to the GWML electrification whee from start of physical works on the ground to actually have some power in the catenary we are talking about the better part of two years (seems like more - must check) to electrify 13 miles of quadruple track which has no pointwork in it whatsoever.

 

Regrettably soem aspects of NR seem incredibly hidebound with i dotting and t crossing procedures while paying far less attention to the fact that they are sctually there to run a railway - add in what amounts in some places to a fear culture and a need to forever toe the party line and I'm not surprised that something like this can happen.

[Wheatley]

hopefully heads will roll at Network Rail over this......

 

I hope not. It's almost certainly a junior member of staff who's forgotten to do something or someone with 101 other things on his plate who's missed a deadline. It's not like they've tried to cover it up or fudge it.  

[Southernman46]

Somebody will have had a busy day running ClearRoute I suspect ...........................

[stovepipe]

BTP and Network Rail need to act better; surely the Network Rail helicopter could be used to identify idiot spots as the idiots will be stalking out their vantage points some time beforehand or they could run a water spraying train immediately in front

 

We went out to see FS today, and yes the helicopter was up patrolling the line beforehand, and there was a police car and van at our chosen location, all for 15 to 20 people mostly families.

[Dunsignalling]

There have been many similar cancellations in the past but because they didn't involve the famous flying Scotsman they went under the radar. However this became big news top news story in Scotland, the local council up in arms because they had all sorts of local events, and even the transport minister got involved publicly calling network rail incompetent.

Network Rail then managed to do in just a few hours what they had not been able to do in 12 weeks. I rather suspect a few people got dragged over the coals by senior management, who presumably had been dragged over the coals by the transport minister. However the reputational damage to network rail had already been done.

The news media are almost entirely anti-rail and universally anti-Network Rail already so what NR has or hasn't done won't change anything there. 

 

I've known a steam special to run one week and one using exactly the same loco/stock to be cancelled the next through no reason other than that track maintenance (tamping and lining usually) may have reduced clearances at a particular location and there is insufficient time to re-gauge the area which might prove that it hasn't.

 

Main line steam creates a lot of work but yields very little income for Network Rail, even when it goes right, and lumbers them with paying compensation to TOCs for delays not of their own making when it doesn't. Pulling out the stops to avoid cancellation of what is regarded by many as disruptive, inessential traffic that is more likely to cost the company money than make any won't be high on everyone's list of priorities. BTP's abject failure to prosecute the FS trespassers won't have inspired anyone either.

 

Many in "Senior Management" and more at board level would probably like to see the back of main line steam in general and, after what happened during the earlier run, Flying Scotsman in particular. Even among staff closer to the sharp end of operations, those in favour don't constitute a huge majority. The last of those who knew "proper" operational steam are on the verge of retirement and many of the next generation would rather see specials hauled by heritage diesels, or none at all.

 

I for one hope that all the hullaballoo over this loco dies down soon, because the way the general public have been reacting to it constitutes the biggest threat to main line steam operations in many a year.

 

John

[brianusa]

If it is back on, then surely NR deserve some congratulations for sorting things out so rapidly then? Or is it just that the done thing is to knock someone when they are down?

 

Stewart

This is not so simple.  People were inconvenienced, annoyed, upset and just plain angry after having spent thousands of Pounds and  looking forward to the trip.  It could have been avoided by the many reasons quoted already and NR would not have to suffer the consequences!

 

Brian.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Regrettably soem aspects of NR seem incredibly hidebound with i dotting and t crossing procedures while paying far less attention to the fact that they are sctually there to run a railway - add in what amounts in some places to a fear culture and a need to forever toe the party line and I'm not surprised that something like this can happen.

One of the very reasons I left the industry. My paperwork went on a hyperbolic increase, so I was spending about 4 days a week ticking boxes and signing forms and 1 day actually trying to get the job done instead of the other way round.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

I've known a steam special to run one week and one using exactly the same loco/stock to be cancelled the next through no reason other than that track maintenance (tamping and lining usually) may have reduced clearances at a particular location and there is insufficient time to re-gauge the area which might prove that it hasn't.

 

In the days when we used a plumb line and tape measure critical clearances were normally checked before the line was reopened after engineering works. I remember a mad panic on one tamp and line job when the OLE staff came in and said that because of the amount the track had been slued there was a risk of a pantograph flashing over or actually striking a gantry signal cage so they couldn't switch the power back on.

[darrel]

The news media are almost entirely anti-rail and universally anti-Network Rail already so what NR has or hasn't done won't change anything there. 

 

I've known a steam special to run one week and one using exactly the same loco/stock to be cancelled the next through no reason other than that track maintenance (tamping and lining usually) may have reduced clearances at a particular location and there is insufficient time to re-gauge the area which might prove that it hasn't.

 

Main line steam creates a lot of work but yields very little income for Network Rail, even when it goes right, and lumbers them with paying compensation to TOCs for delays not of their own making when it doesn't. Pulling out the stops to avoid cancellation of what is regarded by many as disruptive, inessential traffic that is more likely to cost the company money than make any won't be high on everyone's list of priorities. BTP's abject failure to prosecute the FS trespassers won't have inspired anyone either.

 

Many in "Senior Management" and more at board level would probably like to see the back of main line steam in general and, after what happened during the earlier run, Flying Scotsman in particular. Even among staff closer to the sharp end of operations, those in favour don't constitute a huge majority. The last of those who knew "proper" operational steam are on the verge of retirement and many of the next generation would rather see specials hauled by heritage diesels, or none at all.

 

I for one hope that all the hullaballoo over this loco dies down soon, because the way the general public have been reacting to it constitutes the biggest threat to main line steam operations in many a year.

 

John

Actually it was Phil Verster who took personal charge of it on Friday night and contacted Mark Carne and Sir Peter Hendy to get they turn made senior management were said to be very unhappy about it.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Actually it was Phil Verster who took personal charge of it on Friday night and contacted Mark Carne and Sir Peter Hendy to get they turn made senior management were said to be very unhappy about it.

Darrel,

I know it's late but I don't quite understand your comment above.

[darrel]

The word they should have been the u turn.

This should make it clearer http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/transport-minister-welcomes-re-instatement-of-flying-scotsman-trips-but-demands-answers-to-farce-1-4127800

['CHARD]

And the public said:

 

'Derek MacKay is starting to acquire real kudo's as a Minister who likes to take no s++te'

Lovely apostrophe there!

 

and who is this Keys guy?  And a Railway just for a boarding school, or is it a railway where you can't alight?

 

'The guys in Milton Keys could not make the checks "because their system did not have the right data" So where did the data get lost? It was generated by the constructors of the Boarders Railway and handed over on completion of construction to the owners who presumably are the Scottish division of Network Rail so did they forget to send the data to Milton Keys?'

[russ p]

There has just been an item on news 24 about this. Trouble was there was a bit of helicopter footage of the A3 the rest being of a J94 on a preserved railways so half the public will think that is flying Scotsman!

[Bon Accord]

60103 is due to visit Bo'ness tomorrow, accordingly BBC Scotland filmed a segment about the B&KR hence the Austerity (it's not a real J94).

As for gauging, isn't it  amazing what can be achieved in a short space of time once backsides are kicked? 12 weeks indeed.

[russ p]

I sort of figured that to be the case, but it was not how the news portrayed it

[phil-b259]

What reputation has Network Rail got?

 

Stephen.

 

Different bits have different reputations, but as far as the public are concerned:-

 

Dealing with what might be called 'disaster recovery' (e.g. Dawlish) - very good

Charter train planning - awfull

Big engineering work / blockades - mixed (lots have gone well but a few have gone badly wrong)

Fixing day to day infrastructure problems - bad (but thats mainly because its very difficult to get regular users to comprehend just how complicated and things like signalling systems are).

Big upgrades - bad, (though as has been mentioned elsewhere much of this has its roots in the Privatisation / Railtrack era but not helped by NRs seeming inability to make good the deficiencies)